Manchester United Discussion

07 May 2024 13:45:54
Might be a very foolish option but surely even releasing some of the high earners, instead of trying to sell them should considered. The wages off the books must be of more importance, don't know if that would effect FFP.

{Ed002's Note - They have contracts, so the club would need to have the players agree or pay up the contracts. Try and stay away from the finances.}

07 May 2024 11:56:24
Ed02 - do we still intend to appoint someone who will be in charge of recruitment? If so, is there a preferred choice currently?

Talk of Freedman and Ward previously but it's all gone a bit quiet.

Thanks.

{Ed002's Note - Matt Hargreaves until Ashworth arrives.}

07 May 2024 11:03:22
The worst season for conceding goals in recent history was when? We conceded 81 goals in all comps. That's how many we have conceded so far this season.
Can you name the season we conceded 81?

07 May 2024 11:27:21
76/ 77 they mentioned it plenty of times today!

07 May 2024 11:37:53
We won the fa cup final that season keefy I was at it.
The doc was fired after it but for a totally non footballing reason.

07 May 2024 12:36:16
Back in the days when winning the FA Cup meant success for United ☹️. Sadly we are at that stage again. Mind you three FA Cup appearances in 4 years. I was at the Liverpool and Arsenal games. Lost 1 won 1.

07 May 2024 12:32:00
Mrs Brown from memory.

06 May 2024 09:11:57
Make no bones about it, not being in Europe in any form is bad news. period. All this discussion about having a smaller squad (which will not happen) and reduced wages is a false hope.

We will not have much chance attracting players anyway with our poor showings of late but having the Europe feather missing, no matter what level, is going to hurt our return to where we belong.

It was already going to be upwards of four years before we can get close to competing with the top 4, including Aston Villa! Having a mediocre squad to get us through the next couple of years is hardly conducive to a planned return to the top where we have to refresh again in two/ three years, when there is every risk we will be in the same boat.

It's going to be a long ride children, hold on, strap in and get ready for some hard times. ESPECIALLY if the delusional one is still in charge.

06 May 2024 10:46:56
Spot on keefy only a fool or idiot imo would suggest no European football is a good thing.

06 May 2024 10:58:15
Upwards of four years before we even get close to competing with top 4? Didn’t we finish in the top 4 last season? Quite a strange post.

06 May 2024 11:40:53
Yes mate…. last season!

06 May 2024 11:58:17
We need to make the Europa League next season. While the scheduling isn't great, we need both the prestige of playing European football to attract new signings, and the income it brings to support rebuilding the squad.

Failing to get into the Europa League at a bare minimum will have massive implications on our ability to rebuild the squad and probably adds at least an extra year to our rebuild.

Most of the players we will look to sign this summer will be playing for either a team in the UCL or in the Europa League. It'll be very hard to convince them to leave a club playing European football to join one that isn't. Especially if we are looking to sign players whose career is on an upward trajectory.

We can promise them the earth, say about the changes happening at the club, but ultimately it's all if buts and maybes as there is no proven track record yet. It's unlikely that our new DoF will even be in place and there are question marks over who will be the manager next season.

If I take my Manchester United hat off for a minute and put myself in the shoes of an agent for a young up and coming player would I seriously suggest signing for United would be a great idea this summer? Or would I say let's wait and see what offers come in and whether there are clubs in the UCL who are more settled and have a clear plan and have good recent track record of success and improvement. If no offers come in other than United would I seriously suggest taking the gamble of moving to a club at the start of a massive overhaul, or to stay where they are for another season. At a club where they are progressing, developing, and improving. Where they are settled, playing regularly and part of the managers plans.

Taking my Manchester United bias out of it for a second and it becomes hard to find reasons to really justify moving to Manchester United for a young up and coming player beyond a big pay day.

Which if we are trying to reduce the wage bill and implement a sustainable wage structure, then surely offering massive wages and big agents fees is something we need to be shying away from.

We need to make at least the Europa League for so many reasons, even if it's not the competition we want to be in. No point throwing out toys out the pram and cutting our nose off to spite our face. We have to accept where we are and cut our cloth accordingly. That is the only way we can start to turn the club around and start moving in the right direction.

06 May 2024 12:33:54
Agree Shappy!

06 May 2024 13:41:18
I don't see how being in the Conference Cup or whatever it's called is going to provide any draw to the type of players the club needs to sign. So, yes, not being in Europe is a big loss, but there was a time when even the Europa Cup would have been considered a competition below the level befitting the revered status we continue to harbor in our own minds. I suppose the extra £15m the club might earn from winning the tournament might be considered a necessary benefit, but that sum would be consumed by a single extra £40m player on £125k a week.

06 May 2024 14:18:36
Easy knowing it's not your money shawthing. The revenue to the club in winning the europa league far exceeds 15m.

06 May 2024 16:31:50
Frankly if Utd are that desperate to make £15m from a tin pot competition something is badly wrong.

We need to look long term. If we get a season where the current or new manager has time to properly integrate and coach players and also let them rest between games it can only benefit the team.

No team which plays on a thursday has seriously competed for the league.

I am not worried about attracting the best players if we are not in Europe provided the manager can show potential signings that we will improve and that there is a sensible plan how to build a top team.

06 May 2024 16:53:14
Shawthing, the money earned through prize money, TV, gate receipt, match day sales, and sponsorship can all be easily measured and will far exceed 15m.

While the increased global exposure, which can drive up merchandise and sponsorship income is harder to quantify, but will obviously have some impact.

Then you have the ability to sign key young players due to playing European football. Maybe one of them becomes the next superstar and face for the club, further increasing income.

I'm not saying the Europa league is where I want us to be, but it is where we find ourselves as a club right now. We mocked Liverpool fans all through the 90's and 00's for trying to act like a top club when clearly they weren't at the time (big club yes, but not a top club) . We can't keep acting like a club challenging for major honours when in reality we haven't really challenged for any of them for over a decade (league and UCL) .

We need to accept where we are, cut our cloth accordingly and build from there, not stick our heads in the sand and turn our nose up at income from Europe's 2nd or 3rd tier competition based on the idea that its beneath us.

06 May 2024 18:20:00
Europa League legend David Moyes will be available next season, the stars are aligning.

06 May 2024 19:22:43
Salford, it really doesn't matter which competitions we are in next season we won't be competing for the league title.

If you seriously expect or even hope that to be the case then you will be sorely disappointed. We are a absolute bare minimum of two or three seasons away from being able to have a realistic chance at challenging for the title.

Next season should be about clearing the decks, bringing through some younger players and starting to create a team identity. Ideally all while improving on results to get top four. Although a 5th place finish next season wouldn't be a disaster, although it would be disappointing.

It'll take this summer and next summer to move on the number of players we need to move on. I could easily see 10-12 leave this summer and another 8-10 next summer.

With that many out goings we will need to probably sign 10-12 players at a bare minimum over the next two summers, as well as promoting a few of the best youngsters from the academy to fill the gaps.

Which means we are unlikely to have the core group of 18 or so players together, training every day until the start of the 2025/ 26 season. You'd then expect they will need a season or two to build up that understanding and for those younger players to start to hit their peaks and perform consistently.

Which really puts us at the 2026/ 27 season at the earliest before we are likely to see a serious title challenge. For that to be the case you'd probably need a near 100% success rate with those signings. If 4 or 5 of those 10-12 signings over the next two summer windows either fail to live up to expectations, or take longer to adapt than hoped, or if any of the young players we currently have go off the boil, leave or for whatever reason don't reach the levels we hope then we'd still be 4-5 quality players away from having a squad capable of challenging.

People still seem stuck on this idea of some kind of magician coach who can turn old knackers into world class players with a few words and a new training regime. It's nonsense.

Klopp changed 18 of the original squad he took over before winning anything with Liverpool. Pep changed 16 players in the first team squad before winning his first title despite having a much better squad to begin with and one that was built with him in mind to come in and manage them. To date Pep has signed 52 players while at City, and Klopp has signed 37.

Arteta took over Arsenal in the 2019/ 20 season, it wasn't until the 2022/ 23 season before he had a squad capable of challenging for the title. In the 5 summer transfer windows since Arteta took over Arsenal they have signed 26 players, and only 4 of the original squad he inherited still remain.

These three are held up as the best managers in the league, as managers who have "coached" a specific style of play in their teams.

Yet the reality is that all three have required an almost total rebuild of their squads to get the players required to play this "coached" style of play.

Now that's not to say they aren't great coaches, just that a coach can only do so much to help a player improve. Ultimately you can't coach a dolphin to win the London marathon. Players are constrained by their physical and mental capabilities.

Personally I'd be amazed if we have more than 5 players in our current squad who are still here and playing regularly in our next title winning side.

Literally I'd say Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, and Martinez are the only one's I'd feel confident in. Mount, Onana, Dalot and Rashford as outside contenders, but I'm not confident in any of them for various reasons.

That means at a bare minimum we will need 3 CB's, 3 fullbacks, 3 midfielders, 2-3 wingers, at least 1 ST, and probably 1-2 GK's.

That's 13-15 players, some could come from the academy, yet they will take a few seasons to become reliable players in the first team, so they aren't quick fixes even if they save us money.

I see this as a 3 year rebuilding process with us being realistically in a place to challenge for major honours in 4-5 years time. With somewhere between 15-20 players leaving and 15-18 new players being integrated into the squad.

So no, I don't see the team having extra time to rest on their laurels or do extra training next season as any benefit at all. We need to get our players in the condition and used to playing twice a week and performing in multiple competitions as that is where we want to be. You learn twice as much by playing games than you do from training. That's why its so important young players get game time as merely training with the first team stunts their development. Ultimately they need to play games. That's where you learn and grow.

06 May 2024 20:31:20
We are going through a process, you can see that the youth teams have already had that reset and are on their way. The first team has been harder due to flogs on high wages.
This summer is about removing stock from our team. Players who either don't understand, don't have the mental attributes or simply don't want to, play for united.
The same applies to the recruitment.
Our demise has been well documented, any player, globally, will understand that United is not currently where it wants to be, and those that understand this and still have a desire to come and play for united, not the money, are the ones that should and likely will be targeted.
Those targets, will understand the objectives for their tenure, short and long term. Therefore having European football, whilst I believe should be something we aim for each and every season, I don't believe not having it will prevent us getting the players we want.

07 May 2024 06:44:27
Love it Grim.

05 May 2024 09:28:11
Sky reporting an email going round from SJR to employees about the lack of cleanliness and standards to be maintained at facilities.

Nice to see these levels of attitude coming from the top of the organisation. Hopefully it will filter throughout the club and a best in class attitude can start to be.

05 May 2024 12:10:49
Who is leaking these emails?

This is the 2nd in a row we’ve heard of. Whoever it is, hopefully they are one of the 200 let go because they clearly aren’t taking the changes seriously.

06 May 2024 00:50:43
Whenever there's a 'leak' that shines the top in a good light, the source is brighter.

06 May 2024 12:04:53
There are two kind of leaks. Those made by disgruntled or stupid individuals who can't keep their mouth shut.

Then there are those planned leaks, ones chosen by people at the club to illicit a certain response from the fans/ general public or to test public opinion.

The former need stamping out, the latter are just part of a business that runs on fan and public opinion.