08 Apr 2024 15:14:29
Ork has written an article entitled, The case for keeping EtH at Man Utd
08 Apr 2024 17:01:49
1. I challenge every anti-Erik on here to provide names of managers who've dealt with the same pressures in little under 2 full seasons.
What's the point? What does this prove? We only focus on our own, but off the top of my head I would say Spurs have had a bad season with injuries but are likely to get top-4.
2. I further challenge them to explain why these pressures should be considered so trivial that they must be completely ignored when the opportunity for criticism presents?
Nobody is ignoring them. There's enough evidence without them to suggest ETH is out of his depth with the decision making he is making.
I'll ask you a question back. How did ETH justify starting Rashford yesterday?
08 Apr 2024 17:40:46
BRD, who should have started ahead of Rashford at LW?
Garnacho has really developed and had a massive impact on our front line when playing on the RW. On the left he still tries to cut in and shoot too much, making him too predictable and easier to mark out of the game. It has been since he moved to the right where he can go either inside or outside where he has become undropable.
So, who starts LW if not Rashford? Antony out of position? Amad?
I think we currently find ourselves in the odd position of having lost two key RW players in Sancho and Greenwood, while Antony has struggled, and yet it is a lack of depth at LW that is a problem right now.
08 Apr 2024 17:58:46
BRD
Spurs haven't had a decade of Ed Woodward making decisions.
Say what you want about Levy, but he's not a football moron like Mystic Ed.
For example, he would not have kept Jones, Bailly and Martial for as long United have/ had.
Injuries are literally the only field for valid comparison with Spurs - their squad hasn't been riddled of overpaid, overpriced, underperforming, ageing mercenaries for years. We still have that kind of squad so the any further comparison is rather weak.
As for Rashford, I think the decision was based only on big-game experience. He'll count that as a mistake and will likely devote greater thought next time.
I've never said he's made no mistakes - he's made plenty, but so has every other manager.
08 Apr 2024 19:08:38
Good post pal.
08 Apr 2024 20:13:05
“ So, who starts LW if not Rashford? ”
My granny would put in more effort and passion. She’s been dead a good few years.
08 Apr 2024 21:02:43
Yesterday was yet another example of ETH making basic errors, failing tactically.
I am no Antony fan but the decision to play Rashford was ridiculous. Rashford hid in the first half. That is just a terrible management decision and it’s not the first. He took Garnacho off, took away the out ball, but the penalty came after Bruno missed a tackle on the left.
I watched players jogging back because they were not part of a coordinated pattern moving the ball, meanwhile Liverpool moved as a team, it was stark.
Then ETH comes out of a game, where we played as if we were a relegation threatened team at Anfield to say he was proud. I see Keane called him out on that. Proud. When it comes to success being giving a top team problems in their title chase and the manager feels proud, that’s unacceptable.
ETH had £400m spent plus loans and we lack a back up centre forward, no left back and Mount bought without an obvious position. It lacks structure, yet suddenly ETH is trying to now make out it’s all part of the plan, talking up what is happening. He seems to have suddenly realised the pressure and trying to throw positives out there.
I watched Hojland with interest yesterday, in the warm up he didn’t hit the target that much, stick it in the net. Yes it’s only warm up but no one seemed to be guiding him. I remember watching strikers warm up in the past and they were not as hit and miss. In the game Hojland hardly won a header, the ball didn’t stick to him. He is raw but all the above seems to indicate he isn’t getting the level of coaching he should be and there isn’t a plan to have a coordinated attack.
I stood by ETH until Brentford, a disjointed uncoordinated mess.
08 Apr 2024 21:15:29
@ shappy he started garnacho on the left v Chelsea and Anthony on the right it went well I think that's a valid argument.
But that's up to eth. Rashford scored v Liverpool in the last game so he made his choice.
@ ork. We all have our opinions, for every positive stat in favour of eth there is a damning negative one.
We could play that ying v yang forever.
Because none of us really have a clue we can only comment on our gut feelings and on what we see.
Taking aside the hap hazard poor football and lack of cohesion and awful defending blah blah blah because there are some mitigating circumstances for some of that, I look at it from my own viewpoint.
I would not like to be stuck in the trenches with eth.
I would not blindly follow him over the hill.
I would not trust him to have the answers, I wouldn't turn to him if I was in trouble and I would doubt a lot of what he is saying to me, I have too many doubts after 18 months of first believing then hesitating then doubts, and now certainty that I wouldn't follow him over any hill.
He is not a leader I would follow anywhere.
I'd love to be stuck in the trenches with pep klopp fergie wenger young Jose, simione emeryeven mad conte (for the craic) . They are guys that have their players running over the hill with double back packs if they have to.
I see traits in his leadership that I don't like or agree with and I would not like to work under him. ( just to say I don't know him or any facts for the politically correct brigade) I've formed my opinion on my perceptions like we all do. (That's how you form your opinions too)
I think he lacks charisma and he does't help himself with his press conferences.
The relationship that flows between fans manager and players the unity I long for is not there.
I don't believe in him I don't see a sustainable successful future under him at all.
I see a few cup wins and palatable football ish but nothing near enough to close the gap on not only our peers in England but also Europe.
I can't see any compelling reason to stick with him. We are 13 points behind where we were last season.
Our players are not any fitter.
We don't pass the ball any quicker.
We don't defend set pieces any better. we don't score more goals. We don't dominate possession. We give a shot away every 3 mins.
He has lost 24 games out of79 in the league.
Rotten cl campaign.
No cl next season
I can just imagine if Southgate took off a winger in the euro final when leading and brought on a midfielder and lost what the reaction would be and imagine if he did it twice 3 days apart. I dare say he would be getting pelters for negativity.
I agree if martinez or Shaw had been available all season it would have been better but that does not explain enough away imo.
Disclaimer
Mine is an opinion of 1. It is based on my perceptions. I admit its based on my subjectivity. I think and hope that the new management will be aligned with some of my observations and feelings and perceptions.
Nobody should be too irked by others perceptions / opinions because they are based on little or no knowledge or facts and are totally invalid when it comes to the decision makers.
If not they are seeing something I'm not then that's fine. They know more than I do.
The only person who is in the position to change my opinion of eth is ETH himself.
On sancho I think the club, eth and particularly sancho all handled the situation badly. The club will suffer the most in the long run.
Not taking sancho's side at all but the whole thing got out of hand because it was let get out of hand.
I think eth will always be only around the corner from his next ronaldo / sancho / varane (a lesser but still by all accounts a difficult situation) / rashford type stand off.
Football fans only have 2 things belief and hope.
With eth I don't believe I only hope.
I think it's the same for the players I believe that's evident by what their producing.
Leading to mediocrity is hard enough leading to greatness is not easy and I don't think eth has got it.
Change now.
In business and I assume its the same in sport as it will be for us all.
You regret the things you don't do in life a lot more often than the things you do, do.
I would not be sticking because of a fear of the unknown. If the known is not a as good as it can be never fear the unknown.
08 Apr 2024 21:27:30
Injuries aside, if the club can get their house in order, 6 signings this summer should transform our team.
Back 4, a real No6, and a forward. Anything else is a bonus.
08 Apr 2024 21:34:55
BRD
How have spurs had a bad season with injuries. They had maddison and van der ven out for about 6 weeks and 2 of those weeks was during the international break. They have spent 387 mill pounds in transfers since summer of 2022 and bought 13 players and sold Kane and Dier.
As i write this they have 5 injuries, 2 being back up keepers 3 players who are squad players. They play once a week since november as they were out of both domestic cups and no europe.
The minority who is making a lot of noise about the manager getting sacked seems to gloss over things that has made it difficult for us this year and giddie up everyone else out there.
Its like Fergie said the neighbors cow is better.
I have zero doubts if we did not have the nature and timing of our injuries this year, we would be ahead of teams like villa and spurs and playing much better football. Its been a year of compromise every game.
08 Apr 2024 21:55:26
Good post that Ken.
Shappy, 'who starts LW if not Rashford? ” Antony?
You've bigged up the virtues of the right footed Garnacho playing on the right (and I agree) . Why can't it work having the left footed Anthony playing on the left for the same reasons?
08 Apr 2024 22:04:55
Newcastle have lost the most player days to injuries this season followed by 5 clubs tied exactly
Spurs United Palace Chelsea and Liverpool.
City are in the bottom 3 and have used the least players.
08 Apr 2024 23:33:33
No point arguing with the Anti-Eriks.
9 Wins, 3 Draws, 3 Losses in 2024. One game off our third cup final in 2 years, all whilst playing bad.
3 individual errors in our last 2 games cost us points but again its ETHs fault.
Old Trafford roof leaking? there's only one man to blame.
09 Apr 2024 01:03:17
I love those stats kurtis.
In our last 16 league games since 6th Dec we have won 6 drawn 4 lost 6
Or in short won 6 of our last 16 league games.
As I say for every good stat you trot out to capture a period a damning negative is there to trump it.
09 Apr 2024 03:25:16
More points than Klopp and Arteta in the EPL after first 50 games.
It is absolutely okay to suggest that maybe we should give the guy a bit more time, and move out some players who don't fit and bring in more that do.
But winning points isn't enough. We have to judge him on style of play. Quick, better fire him and bring in southgate so we get a better style if play.
09 Apr 2024 05:49:15
I think some people should stay clear of statistics as they clearly have no idea of data quality to avoid skewed results.
Anybody can pick a window or scenario to force their point but it is meaningless unless it is quantified against the bigger picture.
For example you could say that two managers have not lost in 20 games so they must be as good as each other. But one could have drawn 20 games, the other won 20 games. Pick the right column and they both look as good as each other.
As Tumble says. You can pick a hundred different arguments and manipulate them how you want.
For example:
61% win record in league last season
48% win record in league so far this season.
Statistically he is going backwards, or is he?
1. Season is not yet over. He could win all remaining games.
2. He could lose all remaining games.
3. He could draw all remaining games.
4. He could get sacked
Unless you consider all the causal factors you are kidding yourselves either way.
But what we do know is that Klopp and Pep moved forward with a clear and tangible plan. Within 4 years Klopp was a double Champions League finalist.
Can you hand on heart say that ETH will be there?
09 Apr 2024 06:47:03
Dodgy
Recommend reading what Rio Ferdinand has said on ETH team set up.
So move out some who don’t fit and bring in more that do. What was ETH doing with the £400m spent and the loan deals, including Amrabat? And it’s a dogs dinner team right now. Chaotic. Is that the plan, chaos?
09 Apr 2024 07:40:29
Guardiola has 75 wins since start of 2022 season in all competitions, eth is second with 62 wins and Klop has 57. He has gone through player issues, change in ownership structure, injuries to players we cannot solve for and bad rub of calls imo. Its been a season of one player back 2 more out and never a stable consistent first 11.
Other clubs have had injuries too but they have better alternatives as replacements imo where in some areas we just have none.
I acknowledge its not a thumping 3-0 and control i would like to see when we play and some of the games have been awful awful. its a squad that has gaps and weaknesses both technically and physically. You can either blame the manager or think he needs time to retool. The current crop of managers who have done really well, were all given time to build a team of their players.
I will support whatever the decision even though i might not agree with it. I suspect the same group here will be at it again with the new guy soon thereafter. its a pattern with united and instability breads poor football. IMO we are 2/ 3 years away from playing the kind of football everyone wants.
Finally what managers say in public and what they say privately are often miles apart and you guys hanging on to every word he says to criticize him is laughable. I am told privately he wants a quite a few players gone but not in his hands and difficult sticking point atm.
09 Apr 2024 07:47:11
Really don’t know how anybody can defend the tactics at the moment. I thought Ole’s were bad, but ETH is making him look like a tactical genius. League form now feels worse than the season Ole was sacked.
Regardless of injuries ETH is looking either stupid or naive with his formations. Players can’t mark a piece of paper at set pieces and are woefully out of shape and position during transitions. There’s just no defensive discipline - and that’s supposed to be ETH’s strength. Discipline.
Over 500 shots against us this season. Speaks volumes. That’s not a skewed or irrelevant stat. It’s cause and effect. I’m sick of his ridiculous post match analyses. If he’s being genuine then everybody should be worried.
Do I want ETH gone. Yes. Two reasons. Firstly he isn’t good enough to win PL or CL. Secondly, I want INEOS to flex their thinking and bring in a coach of their choosing. I don’t care about comparisons to other clubs or stats against Arteta or actually winning a trophy at the moment. I want a competent manager that makes competent decisions. They seem so rare now.
Final point. All of these comments about injuries. Our midfield has been our issue all season. Bruno. Never injured. McT barely injured. Amrabat. Barely injured. Mainoo obviously relatively new addition. Casemiro missed 17 matches. Dalot (who moves into midfield) never injured. Plus there are some good fringe academy players available. Point is our midfield has hardly been ravaged by injuries. I get Mount long term but he’s never had him to miss - and he’s hardly a defensive linchpin. So why despite the choices and consistent availability is the basics of our midfield still so bad? Coaching and/ or tactics. Were they Woodward’s fault. The Glazers?
09 Apr 2024 09:06:05
Exactly. Facts BRD. 500 shots against. No skewing that data.
Bad run of calls? That’s just a noise factor. Immeasurable and random number. Same with injuries. Hard to measure the the actual effect they have had. Yes they have had an effect but how much, factually.
Also since 2022 is also irrelevant. It’s 2023/ 34 season. ETH won most of those last season. This season his win rate is 48% in EPL.
Another rubbish stat skewed to make an irrelevant point.
09 Apr 2024 10:07:42
Why not trend those figs to show the decline ahmad.
09 Apr 2024 12:17:24
MancMan, Antony and Garnacho are very different players.
Garnacho is fairly two footed and is comfortable shooting or crossing with his weaker foot. He's also a far more technical dribbler, capable of keeping the ball closer to his body and quickly shifting left or right.
As such he is capable of playing on either wing. Playing on the right has just made him play with his head up and assess his options more. When he plays on the left he is overly focused on cutting in and shooting. So playing on the right has made him a more rounded threat.
Antony has no right foot, he will always look to play onto his left. When playing on the right that means cutting back in field, on the left that would mean going wide 95% of the time and he would be just as predictable. Another difference is that Antony doesn't have that blistering pace often needed to go around the outside and make enough space to cross. His dribbling style isn't as technical as Garnacho's, it's more of a push and chase style with him looking to use his acceleration over a short distance to get a yard of space. Over a longer distance his lack of top end speed means defenders can get back at him. It's why he doesn't try and beat a player for all out pace. He gets half a yard ahead of a player and if he can't shoot or cross at that point instead of driving into the space he turns back to square up the defender again. If he drove into the space the defender would likely catch him up.
Antony in my opinion cannot work as a left winger as he doesn't have the all out pace to beat a fullback around the outside or the ability to use his right foot and mix things up.
He might be able to be adapted into a left wingback role, where his work rate is a huge benefit, but he doesn't have the same defensive responsibilities as a fullback, and he can work in conjunction with a LW player to play quick one twos on the the overlap to get space to cross with his left foot.
But he lacks the technical skills and outright pace to be an elite winger, and he doesn't have the defensive capabilities to be an elite fullback either. There is a chance he could play the wingback role to a high level if he worked hard on developing his skills in that role. But from looking at his body language when asked to play on the left hand side in the FA cup game against Liverpool he doesn't seem particularly happy to play in a position outside of his comfort zone.