09 Apr 2024 09:36:03
Question: why do other teams get so many shots against Utd?
09 Apr 2024 09:49:54
Because we empty the midfield and man mark.
09 Apr 2024 10:25:39
I’m not defending this as it looks damning but you need to add some context to it. Below are the shots on targets in these games compared to shots taken. You can interpret stats however you want but I think teams put question marks on Onana, know we are a team that can be got at and probably not the most resilient when we concede and therefore it’s the shoot on sight idea.
Liverpool - 28 shots, 7 on Target.
Chelsea - 28 shots, 10 on Target.
Brentford - 31 shots, 5 on Target
Everton - 23 shots, 6 on Target.
Man City - 27 shots, 8 on target.
Compared to our shots on target, there’s not a great difference in the matches bar the city game and the Chelsea game really: Everton 8 on target, Brentford 5 on target, Chelsea 5 on target, Liverpool 5 on target.
We certainly need to address this but I do think the media want to make it seem more damning that what it is. Liverpool conceded with our first attempt on goal on Sunday! But that statement makes it appear worse than actually the context of how it happened.
09 Apr 2024 10:45:30
Good post ports.
The epl is the quickest in the world particularly when moving the ball forward.
The amount of turnovers we concede is huge and allows teams into our final 3rd a lot more because of our inability to keep the ball.
Again epl nature is that most teams try to score or get a shot away as quickly as possible when is possession.
We give possession away so cheaply and consistently that it allows teams 'pot shots ' in a quick transition phase.
That's the reason in a nut shell imo.
Time and time again we lose possession and offer up half chances.
09 Apr 2024 11:01:04
So basically it's down to deliberate tactics and team selection from ETH?
09 Apr 2024 11:52:17
Ken, precisely that, we give away the ball so cheaply. Sometimes the opposition don't have to do anything.
I read that casemiro gave away the ball 16 times, I mean that's inexcusable.
Of course a different level, but I play CM in Sunday league, and I go made if I give it up once, but 16 at his level, Jesus. I don't mind giving the ball away up high as much when we are trying to do something but Case was giving the ball away do much in his own half.
Again, I know maguire had a good game defensively but on the ball, with no pressure he also was susceptible to giving the ball away. It just invites pressure. If we can cut that out, opposition chances will be less.
09 Apr 2024 13:04:37
In part its due to the tactical set up, and in part its due to a lack of personnel to play the tactics to an elite level.
The idea is that we have a in possession shape of a 3133. This should give us more passing options centrally, while also in theory making us strong defensively in central areas with the only space being wide. It allows for us to have more players further forward, which supports the implementation of a high press. Essentially football tactics is about creating numerical overloads.
Most teams in the EPL currently play in a 3223 type shape or variation of, with a box midfield made popular by De Zerbi. Essentially they have 5 players in the defensive half and 5 in the offensive half.
The 3133 should give us an extra player higher up the pitch giving us a numerical advantage and allowing us to control the game in the opposition half. This comes at a cost of having one less player in our defensive half. Which is why EtH wants to play a quick build up play out from the back with vertical passes to move the ball into the opponents half as quickly as possible where we should have the numerical advantage.
If you can get this system to work then we will be able to dominate games in this league as it would force the opposition to either change shape or to allow us to have control.
There are three reasons why this isn't working perfectly with our current team and what is leading to a lot of shots.
In the first instance our defenders lack pace and mobility so have a tendency to drop 10-15 yards deeper than they should be playing. This creates space in front of them that the midfield has to deal with.
For us the one midfielder we have shielding the defence is Casemiro, and there really isn't another player in our squad who has the skill set or understanding to play this role. Unfortunately he is in decline and no longer has the mobility, pace or stamina to cover this space on his own, especially when that space is made bigger by the defence dropping deeper.
So with a deeper defence and a declining CDM there is a lot of space for the opposition to attack in front of our defence. The more space there is to attack the more frequently the opposition can attack, which will inevitably lead to conceding more shots.
This defensive weaknesses has been exasperated by a forward line that while presses well, often makes poor decisions in possession leading to turning over the ball more often, giving the opposition the opportunity to attack that space in midfield with greater regularity.
This has been helped somewhat by playing Garnacho on the right as we are less predictable down that side now, as such we lose the ball less often down that flank. Ultimately we have too many players in attack who are looking to shoot rather than to create chances. That makes us to predictable, and when the opposition know what you will do it becomes easier to step in and win the ball back.
While Bruno is a chief culprit for losing the ball, he is also (until Garnacho started playing on the right) the only forward player who was looking to pass the ball rather than shoot all the time. Which means that if we drop him then we lose a lot of creativity and would probably score even less than we currently are.
What we are doing well though is that while we concede a lot of shots, they tend to be low chance shots either from distance or from a wide angle. While our defenders are poor at marking the space in behind them, they are very good at marking the space in front of them. Meaning that while the opposition regularly get to run at our defenders they rarely dribble past them. Meaning the shots tend to be low quality chances. which is why we might concede 26 shots in a game, but only 6 or 7 are on target. While the majority of those on target shots are ones the keeper can save without too much trouble.
The vast majority of the goals we concede actually come from set plays rather than open play. Where the chaos and decision making of our defenders is put under more scrutiny. We don't react quickly enough or we fail to pick up a player who finds a yard or so of space in a good position.
So while we concede a lot of shots from open play, they tend to be poor chances with very few goals actually conceded. If we can get better at defending set-plays then we would probably have a similar goals conceded record as the top three sides.
Our real issue this season has been less about goals conceded (only four teams have conceded less), and more about our in ability to score goals ourselves (8 sides BELOW us in the table have scored the same amount or more than us, as well as the 6 sides above us) .
Its an inability to create and score goals that is the major issue.
As to what we can do to fix it this season? Well there is nothing we can do defensively without changing shape, but then that would just create new problems.
This is the issue with our squad, there are no tactics that will negate all of our weaknesses and take advantage of our strengths. Whatever we change while negating one weakness will expose another. That is the problem with a poorly constructed squad, there are too many holes for a tactical set up to try and mitigate.
What I would look to do is drop Rashford and bring in Mount. For me Garncaho has to stay on the right hand side as that has been the only thing in attack this season that has worked. While Hojlund needs to continue at CF as he is the only option.
Bruno and Mount should be the other two as both are hard working creators who should be able to help us have more control and create better chances in the final third. This should also lead to us losing the ball as often meaning the defence gets worked less. Which should lead to less set plays conceded, which as said is how we concede the majority of our goals. I'm not sure if its better to play Mount LW and Bruno in the No.10 or the other way around. Mount has more experience playing wide, yet he is less likely to give away the ball. While Bruno losing the ball wide can actually lead to our pressing trigger to press when the opposition have the ball near the touchline. So I'd be tempted to try Bruno LW and Mount in the No.10 for a game or two and see how that works, if its not working then switch them.
For me that is the only really change we could make that might make a difference without totally changing the structure and tactics (which will only present new problems to solve) .
09 Apr 2024 15:21:07
Great explanation Shappy.
However, I'd make some different changes. I'd play Antony on the left wing and mount at no 10.
Id put Bruno on the bench and tell Rashford to find a new club.
09 Apr 2024 16:29:29
MancMan, I don't think Antony would be any good on the left unfortunately.
His problem is he is one-dimensional due to him being very one footed. On the right as a defender you know he will cut in on to his left foot. You just need to deny him that space. While on the left he will tend to try and go on the outside most of the time to also stay on his left foot. So you just deny him that space as a defender.
Also to go around the outside you need to have significantly more pace as its a longer route which you need to cover in less time than the shorter route the defender needs to take to cut you off. Antony has quick acceleration, but not great top end speed. Which makes it hard for him to sprint past defenders on the outside, as they can often catch him up.
He would be just as if not more ineffective on the left than he is on the right.
As for Bruno, while its frustrating watching him lose the ball as often as he does, I think if he had less responsibility to be the creative player due to other creative players being there to share the burden then he might give it away less. While adding a really good presser and hard worker like Mount in place of Rashford means that even when we do lose the ball in the final third we would be better able to win it back.
Like I said, its not a perfect solution, but its probably the best we have given the players we have available.
09 Apr 2024 16:55:38
Shappy, you see Anthony v Cucerella? He rinsed him on the outside every time. I think he’s quicker than you are giving him credit for. Yes it’s just one game but if the penny has dropped for him, I don’t think he’s as one dimensional as you think.
09 Apr 2024 17:28:13
Ports, by no means am I saying he's slow. But to regularly beat a fullback on the outside you have to be significantly quicker than them. Antony has great acceleration, but he doesn't have that elite top speed.
Cucurella isn't the quickest of full backs, and he kept making the same mistake of getting too tight to Antony. Which once Antony used his acceleration to get away from him he was never going to catch him.
Ultimately it doesn't really matter if Antony has or doesn't have the qualities to play on the left if he doesn't want to play there. He body language and demeanour showed he was not happy to be on the left, and unless that changes he will not be able to be successful playing in that position.
09 Apr 2024 20:11:40
But Shappy, utd need to work on getting service to Hojland and if Anthony is deprived of the option to cut inside and shoot then he has to change his focus.
Plus there's nothing to stop him coming inside and laying the ball off to a runner from midfield.
Thirdly, I'd like to see him play some games on the left just to see what it looks like
Also, if it pushes Rashford out the team then it's definitely a good idea.
Finally, it make him work on his right foot so he has the option of coming inside to take a shot.