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Team: Manchester United


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Best team moment: Solskjaer has won it and I was behind that very goal


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Red Man's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Red Man's rumours posts

 

10 Jan 2019 06:50:04
I have just read there has been a major rule change for this seasons Champions League. Any players signed in the January transfer window will be eligible for the knockout rounds even if they have played in the group stages of the competition for another club earlier in the season.

I wonder if that could stir up activity in the January transfer window!

Red Man

1.) 10 Jan 2019 11:25:18
10 days in and none so far Red Man.

Though if Solanke is worth £19m and Callum Wilson is worth £50m I think we might be better just sticking with what we have got.


2.) 10 Jan 2019 12:47:24
Looking at most of what we've been linked with i'd save the money as well.


3.) 10 Jan 2019 13:47:11
Callum wilson is a decent striker.


4.) 10 Jan 2019 14:10:39
Singh,

I know, but £50m? I appreciate the game has changed and the prices of players has increased but that is utterly ridiculous.


5.) 10 Jan 2019 14:53:33
Decent players should not be going for £50m. Same with Tarkowski. Its this that pushes prices up for good players.


6.) 10 Jan 2019 18:13:45
I know GDS but we can't do nothing to change it. It is still not bad as Andy Carroll going for 35 mil.


7.) 10 Jan 2019 21:10:32
We paid over £50m for Fred, makes Wilson for £50m look like a bargain.


8.) 10 Jan 2019 22:30:46
So true danny. We have gone after two players which city were after and both have so far let us down.


9.) 10 Jan 2019 19:42:41
Hearing strong rumors that we are interested in signing Manolas from Roma this January. Does any of the Eds know if it's legit?

{Ed002's Note - They will have the opportunity to talk with Roma in Geneva next week - with Roma looking to move him on in the summer.}


10.) 11 Jan 2019 09:58:08
With Aldervierweld supposedly have a £25 million clause surely that is great value. Even 35-40 would be.


11.) 11 Jan 2019 12:01:20
You'll always pay a premium for decent English players.


12.) 11 Jan 2019 16:03:30
If Wilson's worth 50 what's Rashford worth?


13.) 12 Jan 2019 11:49:46
Mort it doesn’t matter what Rashford is worth because we won’t be selling him and don’t need the money.

£50m is the new £30m.


14.) 12 Jan 2019 13:30:29
Never suggested we should sell him or that we needed the money. Just a question on what his value is.


15.) 12 Jan 2019 17:17:25
According to transfermarkt, his value is 65m euro. Doenst mean United would accept that though :)


 

 

23 Jul 2018 19:43:22
Who knows how true a rumour is but today it is said Mourinho is meeting Woodward and a member of the Glazer family. It is rumoured Mourinho is not at all happy with transfers. Last summer he openly asked for 4 and they let him down only got 3 and didn't bring in the wide attacker, we can see what has happened this summer and whilst the window isn't closed is anyone else getting the feeling there is a financial squeeze?

I hope Mourinho has the guts to call the owners and Woodward out, something SAF didn't. To get change a business needs to experience pain so for me if there is a financial squeeze I hope Mourinho walks away, leaves us in the mess the club will have brought on itself. Years of no value, LvG saying he didn't get what he wanted, only 3 out of 4 last summer. The trend has to stop now, I hope Mourinho is the one to finally take a stand. What we have isn't good enough, 2 more players, no fullbacks, really? Time for change at Old Trafford.

Red Man

1.) 23 Jul 2018 20:46:59
Red man the club is obviously trying to sell off a few before we can buy. Our moto like citys when they first got money of double or tripling players wages will always come back to haunt us. Weve spent like the moneys burning a hole in our pockets without a clear plan. The club may also view 3/ 8 of joses signings could be gone by the end of the summer that's hardly a good turn around on who the manager is investing in either.


2.) 23 Jul 2018 20:52:36
Hope so RM.


3.) 23 Jul 2018 21:17:56
W16wes

Do we really know how many were Mourinho’s first choice? We know he did not get Perisic. There is a pattern from when the owners arrived and now the club owners need to realise this isn’t a transition from SAF to a new manager but from United to a new dynasty, either City or Liverpool and they are letting it happen on their watch. I have banged on about a plan for years whilst watching City when they were dismissed as noisy. The owners need to have a plan and be decisive, now, right now.


4.) 23 Jul 2018 21:36:52
Walk away without a payoff? Rightfully no way he'd do that.

If mourinho is really that upset, no reason why they can't come to a mutual agreement and a stopgap manager put in charge till next season.


5.) 23 Jul 2018 21:39:44
Think we have spent plenty with the last 2 managers. Our targets are with other large European clubs and so it’s not easy to get them in.
Where is the development of youth? We have a good coaching and scouting system with some excellent youngsters pushing through who won’t get a chance under JM.
It’s not all about pure money.
I like JM but he is a 3 year project which is coming to an end. If he could see the bigger picture then he has the chance to create sonething special at Utd. Our club and fans are more patient and will stick by a manager who is creating a team between bringing in top class and developing youth within. As long as too 4 is achieved people will stick with the project if it’s a long term plan.


6.) 23 Jul 2018 22:49:49
The point is does the club have a plan. It doesn't look like it.


7.) 23 Jul 2018 23:10:52
Mourinho looks completely disinterested during the matches. His demeanor and comments afterward makes it seem like these friendlies are for fitness only, it looks like there are no tactics being worked on. He has also shown very little enthusiasm for his own players. His lack of passion looks like it is spreading to the players, and the fans as well. I think it is shocking that a manager, whatever his resume, can have so little enthusiasm for such a big job.


8.) 24 Jul 2018 04:27:20
Spent millions and people are still hanging on to the poor Jose line .
He didn't get perisic so what it happens, Jose has said he didn't want to come and he signed a nice new deal with inter.
So we went and got Sanchez instead what's the problem?


9.) 24 Jul 2018 06:33:53
Jred

The problem? Fullback, centre half, right side attack to create and score goals, as a minimum.


10.) 24 Jul 2018 06:44:00
Every single manager without exception missed out on at least one transfer target last summer.

It has probably happened to Mourinho every season at every club he has worked at.

Ed002 has said Mourinho doesn't want to be at our club, and that it has little to do with his professional life and more to do with his personal life. That suggests the club aren't doing a lot wrong in Mourinho's eyes.

If he's kicking up a stink it's because he has decided he wants out and is just trying to engineer it. He missed his daughters graduation to be on the preseason tour. From what Ed002 has said that is more likely to have caused Jose's bad mood than a lack of transfers.

6 years ago I would have agreed with you about a lack of investment from the owners. Personally I still think they are investing poorly on quick fixes rather than a long term plan.

However, Jose has spent over 400m so far. A figure matched/ beaten only by Pep at city. So I don't think Jose has a right to claim the owners haven't backed him.

It is not the fault of the money men that the targets Jose wanted haven't worked out. Mkhitaryan already sold. 65m spent on Bailly and Lindelof and yet Jose wants another CB because he isn't happy with the ones he bought. Club record fee on Pogba and now touting him around Europe as again Jose isn't happy with him. Zlatan was only ever a short term fix, yet the club agreed to extend his stay while injured on Jose's say so. Jose then played him 4/ 5 times before he left. He was on a crazy contact by all accounts, so I can't see the club being too happy at extending his contract for him to play less minutes than Scott McTominay.
Sanchez is another who was signed and as yet has not proven his worth.

Then there is the 70m+ worth of young talent in Martial and Shaw which Mourinho shows little interest in developing.

Mourinho has been gloomy and miserable since day one and we can't blame that on the owners. Red man I know your a big Jose fanboy, but it appears I may have been right when I said hiring Jose will end in tears. He just isn't the right fit. I know he has the ego and the drive to win like Sir Alex, but Sir Alex had so much more. It's like taking two ingredients out of your favourite meal and slapping them in something else, it won't be the same as your favourite meal. I love a Sunday roast, and roast potatoes and beef make the meal, however, they would be awful in a trifle, or in my corn flakes.

Sir Alex was the perfect man manager, knowing how to change tact to get a tune out of everyone. With Jose it's his way or the highway.

And so far it looks like it's the highway for around 150-200m worth of our players the most of that players Jose himself has bought. So I could see why the owners might be a little more concerned about trusting Jose's judgement on players this summer.


11.) 24 Jul 2018 07:34:07
Top post Shappy, we’ve spent a lot, some of it badly, bought who the Manager wanted, and he doesn’t play them or wants them gone. It’s the Board’s fault, go figure.


12.) 24 Jul 2018 07:42:54
Shappy

One point I can tell you from your post is very wrong, I am not a Jose “fanboy”, and I have posted who I wanted as manager many times, but why let the truth get in the way of your anti Jose position. When Bailly was playing well Jose got no credit and it was a club decision to buy, now it’s his fault we spent money on him. Pep bought and sold and their club supported him, do we support our own in the same way? Apart from Matic do we really know how many were Jose first choice signings? He needed many positions changing but did he have the budget after years of underfunding? He may have approved some but that doesn’t mean they were his first choice. If you look back at our transfer activity the dip in buying started when the club changed owners, buoyed by the longevity of what was already there and SAF we kept going, the dip started when Ron left and years of underfunding has come home to roost. Looks like we are watching the same dance again this summer.


13.) 24 Jul 2018 08:08:36
Red man, you've always been a huge fan of Jose. Since the mid 00's you have said he would be the perfect replacement for Sir Alex. You said when we hired Moyes that it should have been Jose. Under LvG you said we should have hired Jose. So under our last three managers before hiring Jose you have stated Jose should be our manager. In my books that makes you a bit of a fanboy.

You say the spending has dried up under the current ownership. Yet the the club has broken it's transfer record as many times since Sir Alex has retired as we did under him. We've broken the world record transfer fee and the world record fee paid for a teenager in the last 4 seasons.

Has Jose been backed? Yes, 400m in a shade over two years in charge is certainly some backing.

Your excuse of whether they were Jose's first choice is laughable. Bailly wasn't his first choice, and is probably one of his best signings. He wanted Perisic and got Sanchez a player many of us believe is better than his first choice. Zlatan, Matic, Lukaku were definitely his first choice. Pogba was a player he was interested in at Chelsea. Lindelof was another he wanted after leaning heavily on advice from people he trusts in Portugal.

Regardless of whether they are his first choice, second choice or third choice. They are players he wanted and he got them. So he can have no complaints. No manager gets all the players they want, but they don't for the most part throw their toys out the pram like a petulant child. Especially when only one manager in the history of world football has spent more money than you in such a short space of time.

Jose has been well backed, now he has to deliver. So far this preseason he seems to be getting his excuses in early. I suspect another Jose third season implosion.


14.) 24 Jul 2018 08:27:36
Shappy

Incorrect, yet again. I wanted Jose to replace SAF because it needed someone with stature. I wanted Klopp to replace Moyes and then wanted Pep to replace LvG. It was all written on here, only when Pep declared for City did I suggest Jose. If you get that so wrong when I have repeated it many times what else do you get wrong?


15.) 24 Jul 2018 12:48:45
If the board don't trust Jose, why give him a contract extension. Also if Jose is that unhappy why sign it? Just extra post melt down compo?

{Ed002's Note - The club wants consistecy - Mourinho will be more than happy to take the money. The fans did the damage a couple of years ago and are entirely responsible for where the club is now.}


16.) 24 Jul 2018 15:18:22
Ed 002 - LVG and his awful football had nothing to do with it?

{Ed002's Note - No.}


17.) 24 Jul 2018 18:05:52
Shappy on the money.


18.) 25 Jul 2018 11:26:42
Here we go again. Fans fault. Let’s just remove them from football completely. Ruining it.


19.) 26 Jul 2018 11:20:22
Ed do you mind explaining why the fans are at fault?

{Ed002's Note - The toxics forced the club to change their agreed plan because they are far from bright.}


20.) 26 Jul 2018 12:17:33
The agreed plan being to let Van Gaal see out his project?

{Ed002's Note - And then to be replaced by Max Allegri.}


 

 

17 Jul 2018 09:28:49
No idea how true it is but am led to believe that Woodward is struggling on recruitment (perhaps Glazernomics, perhaps being led up dead ends) and the Manager is not happy with the situation. The next few weeks will be interesting.

Red Man

1.) 17 Jul 2018 09:36:47
If Mourinho is going to be that unhappy with the situation i hope both parties come to some sort of mutual termination before the season starts.

Better that than mourinho sulking for the first half in the season and the club has to end up sacking him.


2.) 17 Jul 2018 12:12:59
or maybe its the fact that this is not football manager and it takes time to complete a transfer.

the panic is already starting to creep in.


3.) 17 Jul 2018 12:56:27
If Jose was an adaptable, modest and inspiring manager he would realise that our squad is only 2 or 3 additions away from being up there with the very best.

However, his insistence on sticking with the only way of football he knows and picking fights with his players has left us with a needed squad overhaul in his eyes.


 

 

01 May 2017 09:31:34
I read this morning that Romero has bought a house in Milan. Obviously no idea if that is true or whether he is leaving but strange place to buy if you play in Manchester.

Red Man

1.) 01 May 2017 13:41:07
Holiday home/ investment property? Doubt he's short of a few quid.


2.) 01 May 2017 18:25:03
Linked with inter.


3.) 02 May 2017 08:23:11
Get the lad from Milan and send them a ready made replacement?


 

 

01 Apr 2017 12:59:16
Today I understand another young reserve (he is 20) has been added to the match day squad, Matthew Willock, in addition to Tuanzebe and TFM. This is down to injuries but also because we have released the older "blockers" in the squad. I hope all three get some time and show what they can do. Like Rashford last season, until they step onto the biggest stage in key matches (the pressure to win is now on), we won't know how they handle it.

Personally I have seen many youngsters debut at OT and there is a buzz of excitement when they step out. Good luck to Willock if he gets on and it will do wonders for the youth/ reserve set up to see progress. I hope young Gomes gets some time soon and possibly Gribben if they continue progress and are physically able.

Funny but today may need Fellaini especially against a West Brom team who can and like to score from dead balls.

Red Man

1.) 01 Apr 2017 17:53:35
Another draw at home, top four just seems out of reach at the moment, Its the old Man Utd way, when teams above us drop points so do we. But the most frustrating thing for me is Micki taken off again and martial and lingard left on.
Hope Jose has a plan for next season regarding strikers, it's plain to see if Zlatan don't score, nor does anyone else. Looks like another season of frustration and missed chances.


 

 

 

Red Man's banter posts with other poster's replies to Red Man's banter posts

 

26 Jan 2019 09:38:05
I watched the reaction to our goals with interest last night. In comparison to the previous incumbent the back room staff seem all in this together. They don't appear fearful of the manager, previously it looked visually like they waited on what his thoughts were and how he reacted.

In all the adoration of Ole, the impact of the backroom staff should not be overlooked. They can be the heart of the club, yet were ripped out and decimated by Moyes. We haven't had a settled backroom team focussed on what United are about since. Perhaps that has now changed. Phelan has shown himself to be canny, SAFs number twos were always well researched appointments and the tactics seem smarter now than previously. SAF relied on a good assistant and I wouldn't underestimate the impact of the move to get Phelan back in.

I hope whoever is made permanent manager that we don't allow them to rip out the back room again, perhaps that should be the agreement, you can be Manager or head coach but this is United, these are United people, so no major cull, you operate under a DOF with the backroom constant. I am wary of another major backroom change unless there is a major fall in standards. That may rule some candidates out, even give OGS a better chance but that sort of change of approach has been needed.

Red Man

1.) 26 Jan 2019 10:31:03
That’s a really good point Red Man, the biggest mistake Moyes made was changing the whole of the back room. It’s great we have United people in there now and long may it continue.

I know some of the players appeared to be sulking under Jose and they have to take some of the blame but the change in mood and approach has been staggering since Ole took over. I wasn’t convinced at all but if he keeps this up then his claim becomes overpowering. Some big games coming up soon to really see the progress but whatever happens, if we lose, I suspect we lose the United way.


2.) 26 Jan 2019 10:46:16
Lovely to see those united men there through and through and the sheer joy of the coaching staff when we score.


3.) 26 Jan 2019 11:01:16
I feel a real question about what OUR club needs is being asked at the moment.

When Sir Alex retired we all had an opinion on who should follow him. Some felt the club needed modernising, others felt we needed a calm experienced hand, while others wanted a young up and coming tactician.

What I think we need to appreciate is our club isn't the same as any other club. We aren't Chelsea or Man City, are aren't Real Madrid or Bayern Munich.

We are Manchester United and we have our own identity and our own way of doing things.

We tried the old hand in LvG, we tried the world class manager in Jose Mourinho. Neither fitted the club well, they were to at odds with the club's traditions, the club's identity.

I know there are better managers in world football than Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, but are there any better suited to our club?

That is the question we should be asking.

It's the same as with players, sometimes signing one of the best midfielders in the world just doesn't work out, ask Veron.

Sometimes signing one of the best managers in the world doesn't work out, ask Jose.

They need to be the right fit for our club. Ole still has a lot to prove, yet it's fast becoming his job to lose.

He gets the club, the fans and the players. He will make mistakes, but it will be far easier for fans to forgive the occasional mistake when the decisions are being made for the right reasons and in keeping with our club. If we lose then we lose playing like United. We can accept that, as we know we will win more often than not.

{Ed025's Note - great post shappy..


4.) 26 Jan 2019 11:13:08
Great post shappy.

Sometimes it's just what the club needs.

I listened to Ole post match yesterday, they way he spoke and even the way he was having a laugh with Shaw and could just imagine the players listening and reacting to him in the dressing room. Ole, just having the ability to put his arm round a player, speaking to them on a level that they can relate to him on, consistently emphasising the importance of playing for this great football club. I feel, watching those last 8 games that each and every player understand it too.

Ole is United and just gets it and the players are reacting to it fantastically well. I haven't enjoyed watching united games since Fergie left us.

He has surely put himself in pole position for the job full time.

I can't wait to play Liverpool on the 24th of Feb. No doubt he will have them fired up.


5.) 26 Jan 2019 11:31:47
So many positives and no negatives so far.
Loving every bit of it. The coaches the players nearly all the fans (except the odd bitter one who wants to live in the past but there will always be the odd empty vessel making noise)
Back to the league on tue. We have to keep on churning out the wins while the teams around us are faltering a little.
So much to be positive about so much to look forward to.


6.) 26 Jan 2019 11:47:10
Shaps, that’s why Giggs’s name kept coming up at the time albeit he looked like a rabbit in the headlights when he was caretaking. Remember Ole has been managing for a while now, our reserved, Molde, the ill fated Cardiff spell, and then back at Molde. He is displaying a maturity and calmness that is great to see but I also th No the extra experience he has is helping. He’s one of our own though, to quote SAF, there’s no doubt about that.


7.) 26 Jan 2019 11:57:12
Fabulous post shappy 100%agree.


8.) 26 Jan 2019 12:32:08
Tony, in hindsight would Giggs have done any worse than those who got the job? It's hard to tell.

I still have reservations about Giggs as a manager, he seems to be slightly aloof which is a terrible trait in a manager.

I think Ole is a better fit than any of the class of 92. They might be a little too close. Ole knows and loves the club, yet he isn't quite as synonymous with it as the members of the class of 92. That little more distance will give him more perspective. He learned his trade elsewhere, has seen and experienced football at another club, has managed at other clubs.

I get the impression that Giggs might think a little too highly of himself. As a footballer he is more than intitled to feel that way. However, he still needs to prove himself as a manager before he can have that attitude.

But that's by the by now. Giggs will either prove himself with Wales or show himself to be the latest in a line of great players who became mediocre managers.

Ole by the sounds of it has won the players over, he is winning the fans over, now he just needs to win Ed Woodward over and the job will be his.

Maybe the best appointment Ed Woodward will ever make might be by accident. Let's enjoy the ride and wait and see.


9.) 26 Jan 2019 15:05:29
Ole is much more intelligent than giggs. That's a big difference.


10.) 26 Jan 2019 15:14:53
My sentiments exactly, Shaps. Sometimes CV's are just pieces of paper. Overvalued by 'leaders' who need to see something in writing in front of them, something concrete to help them make a decision. The candidate's personal qualities and how they fit in a particular role, how they interact with others, both below and above them. These are all more important attributes in my opinion, than an account of something you did a few years ago. Especially in a football environment, where new tactics and ideas can leave your, previously successful ideas, looking outdated.


11.) 26 Jan 2019 15:40:19
Great posts everyone, I couldn’t agree more. Ole is beginning to look like the real deal and a great fit at this point in time.


 

 

20 Jan 2019 21:53:52
It seems the knives are still out for our last manager, however, whilst it is popular to criticise him there is a point people keep ignoring.

Yesterday the Chelsea manager Sarri, said of his players, 'This defeat was due to our mentality. this group of players are extremely difficult to motivate'. This is a group who have shown they play when they want to, the club puts them before the manager. It is like a wave pattern, manager comes in and they do well, manager asks them to do something they don't like they down tools and the manager is eventually sacked.

Everyone is glowing in Ole's seven wins but is forgetting our own players started in this cycle and we are just as vulnerable to it as Chelsea. Right now players are "happy", but what happens when they are not. SAF said the power should be with the manager and I hope Woodward sees that, whoever is our long term option. We have players who clearly down tooled whilst Mourinho was manager and it could easily happen again. We need to think whether we want a turnover of managers like Chelsea, so instead of just criticising our last manager we should realise there is a lurking issue still to be resolved that formed part but not all the reason why he was sacked. Whoever becomes the next permanent manager will need absolute commitment at board level or we will see the wave pattern at United.

Red Man

1.) 20 Jan 2019 22:30:34
It's a terrible trend in football sadly and it's been going on for quite some time. It was only because Sir Alex was unsackable that we weren't accustomed to it but player power has been around a long time.

Jose likes his senior players because their mentality isn't as fragile as a younger player. I always loved seeing the inside of a dressing room when a manager is going mental at a team. I'm not sure it happens anymore? It's not to say that his way is right or wrong it's just slowly being outdated.

Jose failed the players and the players failed the manager and both failed the club.

Everything is rosie in the garden now but what happens when Lukaku isn't happy about being on the bench and his mate Pogba starts stirring crap. The dissent from the players was completely unprofessional at the end of Joses tenure.

Is Ole the man that could survive the dressing room if and when they sour? Our players have shown they're shrinking violets. We need a lot of work, is he the man that can handle it or will he be so happy he's the boss that he let's the bigger players dictate the club?


2.) 20 Jan 2019 22:41:26
Red man, I completely agree. There are other issues that need sorting. Woodward is still just as clueless, the club still don't have a clear identity or vision moving forward, and the "problem" players are still at the club.

However, I do feel the only reason anyone is still mentioning the previous manager is because that manager has come out talking about the club in the press over the last couple of days. Thus it is all dug up again.

I am happy to put the whole Mourinho era down to a bad decision by all involved. I am happy to thank Jose for the cups he won with us, and the hard work he put in. I wish him well and success in his future endeavours.

I still feel that he was the architect of his own downfall at our club, but am prepared to admit there were several mitigating circumstances that certainly didn't help him.

Time to move on. We have Ole now, at least for the time being. And he is doing better than any of us expected. Let's enjoy it.


3.) 20 Jan 2019 23:08:32
He's gone. He has nothing whatsoever to do with our club any more. Let's put him out of our minds, give thanks for actually enjoying watching our team play again, and leave him to blame whoever he likes. Nobody is saying there aren't other issues, or that we should just give Olé the job now, but one person was mainly responsible for José failing, and that was José. Olé is just showing that it's not rocket science, when you have talented players in your squad.


4.) 21 Jan 2019 00:17:35
For a manager to admit they are struggling, does that not show they are incapable of doing their job?


5.) 21 Jan 2019 03:57:50
Redman I have to completely disagree with you on Chelsea, watching the arsenal Chelsea game felt like watching a lvg game. Chelsea had possession but most of it was pointless, sarri seems to not understand how to use kante, jorginho looks more like blind than xavi in the role he has been given, add to that they don't have a striker, it looked more to me that a manager messing up tactically than players doing anything wrong.


6.) 21 Jan 2019 06:27:11
But Mourinho is right about the lack of structure. We are not organized as Man City and do not have a clear vision to move forward.


7.) 21 Jan 2019 06:30:19
CSM
I agree on Chelsea tactical set up against Arsenal but their very new manager is flagging the same failing that keeps costing managers their jobs. If they don’t like what they are being asked they don’t put 100% in and the downhill path to the manager being sacked starts, repeat. That is what I don’t want to see at United and we still have the same bunch of players.


8.) 21 Jan 2019 08:23:22
We do have the same bunch of players. Yet was it ever likely that we would sell all or even any of the trouble makers in January?

Chelsea's troubles started when the owner started getting too friendly with the players and they felt they had the ear of the owner.


9.) 21 Jan 2019 08:52:02
Red Man, you make a good point, I think it's starting to happen more and more. Was it Argentina in the World up who pretty much decided to ignore the manager completely?

I don't knoww what the answer is but I suspect very good motivational and man management skills would help.

Chelsea is is fascinating as he has chosen to call them out, it will be interesting to see how they react.


10.) 21 Jan 2019 08:53:32
Redman got me sarri is using an old excuse save himself in Chelsea's case, about our problems with player power, have we actually seen anything to suggest players deliberately under performing.

When the first Mourinho sacking rumors came out, it was martial, shaw and pogba who were our best performers, post his virus rant pogba was on the bench and martial and shaw were still playing pretty well it wasn't on any of them that our results were bad, if you look at players whose performance have gone up dramatically since the sacking only 1 name comes to mind that's matic, pogba went through a bad spell but before and after that he has been ok, nothing special but he is scoring goals because the manager is allowing everyone to attack.

If you look at all our managers only under moyes can I say players clearly downed tools and most of those aren't here anymore. Under lvg it was a tactical failing, under Mourinho it was bad tactics and clearly demotivated team. In last 7 games whose performances have seriously improved so much for Mourinho or anyone else to suggest that players downed their tools?


11.) 21 Jan 2019 10:14:32
CSM, you make a good point. Did the players truly down tools?

I suppose that depends on what it means to "down tools". Surely the most obvious meaning is exactly as it sounds you down your tools and refuse to work. So how many players refused to play football for Jose Mourinho? I would argue none. None refused to pull on the shirt and go out and play. So in the true sense no players downed tools.

However, I think what most consider "downing tools" is in fact not giving 100% effort. Which in itself is a very grey area. For example there have been many days at work where I will admit I didn't give it 100% effort, maybe I was hungover, or had a cold, or had an argument with the misses, or was distracted by things in my private life or even things on a global scale. I have also managed people and I can say that even highly motivated people don't put in 100% effort all the time.

So with that in mind how many of us can categorically say that any perceived lack of effort was definitely down to the players refusing to work for the manager?

Is it simply the players putting more effort in now which has seen an up turn in results?

I disagree, we have a poor defence, one which will give our opponents chances. So it doesn't make sense to invite pressure on that defence and make them do more defending than absolutely necessary. Yet That was exactly the tactics Mourinho employed. Ole has gone the other way and asked our side to spend more time attacking than defending and suddenly when our better players have the ball more and our weaker players are relied on less we look a better side. That has nothing to do with motivation or effort, just common sense and good tactics.

First rule of team sports, play to your strengths. Ours isn't defending so setting our side up to defend is setting them up to fail.

I do believe the players could have worked harder under Mourinho, yet I don't believe in dictatorships. So a leader has to lead by inspiration. You inspire those around you to work hard, to follow you and to adopt your vision. Did Mourinho inspire his players? No, they looked demotivated because of his actions. So was the fault the players or the managers? I would say both, but mostly the managers as it is a huge part of his remit to motivate the players. Jose failed on that front and that played a large role in him losing his job. The other issue was his insistence on playing a certain way that didn't play to his players strengths but exposed their weaknesses.

All in all it was poor management, yet no one has covered themselves in glory. The board, Ed Woodward, the manager and the players. That is why that despite how well some of our players are playing Ole is getting all the credit. Because he is the one thing that is different so he gets the credit for the up turn in performance. The buck starts and stops with the manager. Ole gets the credit for the team performing well as Jose took the blame for them performing badly.


12.) 21 Jan 2019 10:44:04
I have no clue how it became got me, it should be to me.


13.) 21 Jan 2019 12:09:32
A professional will go out and do their job, even with a poor man-manager in charge. But run through a brick wall for them? Hardly.


14.) 21 Jan 2019 14:45:56
Lets just be glad he has gone and we are now playing some decent footy with some positive tactics .


15.) 22 Jan 2019 04:33:00
You could argue that it was Mourinho who created this situation at Chelsea and United by his mismanagement of players. That’s only one of his failings.


 

 

05 Jan 2019 09:52:14
Ole's fifth game today and no doubt a win would escalate the emotional sentimental rollercoaster to a new high, if we win it would be 5 wins, give him the job comments will be everywhere.

Ole is like a temp, temps can be fairly relaxed as they know it isn't permanent, maybe would like it to be, but can go in with a smile, expectation is fairly low. Switch that up to permanent and the expectation at United is at the highest level, staff and players will then demand things, behave differently, objectives will be much much tougher. Unless Ole wins the Champions League, I think we must resist sentiment and appoint the best candidate. Even if he wins in Europe we should think long and hard about it, I have said before on here, consider what happened to DiMateo at Chelsea, who made an emotional decision and then had to sack a legend. The club needs to be objective, what are the plans of the manager to create a dynasty? Then consider him with others along with his record.

This is where it is interesting, Ole bases his plans on SAF, a winning formula from years ago but if Mourinho's methods were considered out of date SAF's date back even further. No doubt I will get the usual outcry but one word is something to concern us over Ole, obsession, obsession with what SAF did, would do, how would SAF do it? We need to move forward as many on here tell us but to do that I don't think an SAF reincarnation is necessarily right.

We all love Ole, I was behind that goal at his and one of our greatest moments so I would rather he walked out next summer head held high than be sacked like DiMateo.

Red Man

{Ed025's Note - fine post that red man..


1.) 05 Jan 2019 10:27:57
Agree totally Red Man.

My preference is that the club appoint the DoF (or Technical Director as is being mentioned) first and hopefully ASAP.

Then the club can go about deciding on the candidates and eventual new manager for the right reasons.

This is the time for Utd to do things correctly.


2.) 05 Jan 2019 10:28:45
Great post redman. I agree completely. Love ole but we cannot be prisoners of the moment. Us united fans can be such sentimental folk sometimes. It is so important we appoint the right manager in the summer.


3.) 05 Jan 2019 11:06:47
Top post Redman.


4.) 05 Jan 2019 11:31:06
Good post redman.


5.) 05 Jan 2019 11:38:47
There's no need to rush the decision on ole one way or the other. By the end of March we will know how good ole is.


6.) 05 Jan 2019 12:04:14
Get your sentiment Red Man and your concerns, but the fact he is interim manager and Di matteo was too are where the similarities end for me. Totally different people, style of managers and clubs.

Let’s wait and see how he does for fine next 5-6 months. Nobody is clambering for him just yet, but he has made a fine start to life in the hot seat and I dare say we are all enjoying the ride.


7.) 05 Jan 2019 12:06:03
Good post.

Ole is doing really well, and riding high on the squad’s visible relief that Jose is gone. But I don’t think he’s the right man long term. It’s a huge step up for him, and we need someone who can bring something new to the club.


8.) 05 Jan 2019 12:29:08
Delighted with the start we have made under ole but a lot of teams improve after getting rid of a manager, especially one that had such negativity around the club. Ole said himself after a couple of games that he hadn’t the time to work much tactically with the players. He has gotten the feel good factor back but it’s far too early to tell how he is going to do yet. Maybe getting Jose out has more of an impact than getting ole in. We might have gotten similar results in this run of games with any manager that tells them to go out and just play football.


9.) 05 Jan 2019 12:59:03
Red Man i don't disagree with your comment but you only gave one example of the situation, how about Guardiola or Zidane? they didn't have any experience training on first division when they took charge of their beloved teams and they didn't do that bad, did they? why Ole can do similar? he has Mike Phelan as an assistant, not bad i'd say, has changed the mood of the whole team, even the staff, the fans. I'd love to see him getting the job for at least 2 years with an option to 5 if he's done well at the end. We keep going for the wrong managers time after time, its time to give the job to one of our own. I think we will play in the champions league next season and we will have a good run in the current one but we still need improvement, 5 years, 3 managers and none of them realized that we have a very unbalance team? our right side is non existent, Valencia is almost done and the way Ole and co want to play footy Mata doesn't suit that style, way too slow. i've seen people saying we need a centre back asap and we do but to me the position where we need to be looking at to get a replacement is a defensive midfielder because Matic isn't getting any younger and Pereira and Fred aren't good enough.


10.) 05 Jan 2019 13:07:39
Unless he wins the Champions League? Would top 4 and an FA Cup win, considering the low base he had to start from, not merit him being considered?


11.) 05 Jan 2019 14:54:54
Id favour a three man shortlist with Ole and the managers of Sevilla and RB Salzberg. No more has beens or also rans. Get the next big thing in. Take a risk instead of playing safe and failing.


12.) 05 Jan 2019 16:37:25
It would for me stevie.


13.) 05 Jan 2019 19:12:38
He'd have to be in the running, Ken. Don't think it'll happen, tho.


14.) 05 Jan 2019 20:24:27
Whilst he wins, few if any will complain.

When he loses, will he still be a popular choice on here.

As long as we qualify for CL and have a good cup run etc, and perform well. in the CL then he will have done a good job.

The main thin is to get behind Ole and them team.


15.) 05 Jan 2019 23:47:04
Ole has got back the feelgood factor, he knows how to get the best out of Lingard and Pogba, because he has managed them on a youth level.
I think this earned him the respect he needed right away and has helped him alot. I also think Lindelöf being swedish helps alot.

Ive seen most of Molde's matches under Solskjær and the team he had before he went to Cardiff, had won 3 titles in three years and made it thrue to the knockout rounds in the EL. His work with youth is also very good, having a average age of 24 playing youngsters in almost every game.
Erling Braut Haaland came to Molde at 16, never scored at senior level in his former club, was sold to Salzburg, top scorer for Molde in the norwegian league.


I never in my wildest dreams could belive he would get this good of a start, but the first big test comes on the 13th against Spurs and it would be interesting how they react, should they lose.

We can only stand behind him the time he is here, and if by may we have FA cup title or a top four finish, i don't think it would be easy to drop him.

The appointment in the first place reeks of SAF and Sir Bobby, so maybe they would have a say in may aswell?

We can safely say we got some of our DNA back, on the field aswell as in the club. May it long continue!

"AND SOLSKJÆR HAS WON IT! "


16.) 06 Jan 2019 09:21:44
Norwegianred

Like I said we need to move forwards not look back, learn from the past but not use it as the blueprint for the future. The club is sentimental and I fear the leadership will make decisions based on that sentiment plus money. We need to stop trying to recreate SAF, they tried it with Moyes and appointing Ole may be another attempt.

Questions
Will, by appointing Ole, it keep supporters happy with the owners and board, keep the image nice to ensure fans continue buying products? ; Will, by appointing Ole, it save paying out a big payment to secure another manager? (Imagine the horror at the financial cost (£40m) of getting Poch, dividends may have to be reduced) ; Will, by appointing Ole, it mean there will be less pressure from the manager to spend big money on players? (The club can become a real financial powerhouse delivering improving results as other large companies aim to) . The answer is yes and that is a worry, the question should be, Will, by appointing Ole, it take the club forward giving it the strength of leadership and back to the top of English and European football?

I can already see the start of the softening, fans being gullible calling for him to be appointed, hints he has support of the board in particular SAF to be permanent, it worries me to be honest. Love Ole, for his work as a player, for the fact his heart is in the right place but as the permanent manager when our two biggest rivals have better managers is a recipe for major concern and no amount of sentiment heaped on fans is going to make it right. There is a very small chance he can truly demonstrate he has what it takes in the next six months but even then it would be a major risk.


17.) 06 Jan 2019 11:39:49
Of course we should not appoint a manager of sentimental reasons and of course not copy SAF in any terms.

Solskjær is for shure not SAF and he is not trying to copy him in every sense, but he is a smart guy and a better manager than people would think.

Appointing Moyes to try to emulate SAF didn't go at all, but Moyes also changed the backroom staff and clearly didn't get the senior players respect. He also didn't make it in the transfer market and it went on a downward spiral.

I don't know if it would work, neither would we know how Poch would have or Zidane, who i would think is the wrong choice.

We can only wait to see how he sets up his team against the big sides and I've seen his set up at Molde against far better teams and beat them. They beat Fenerbache away 4-1 and the Fenerbache fans stood up and applauded the Molde players the last ten minutes of the match.

They also beat Sevilla home 1-0 in the quarter finale of the EL the same season, when it was winter break in the norwegian league.

He is a winner, both as a player and as a manager even though it was the norwegian league.

Im a patriot of course, so i will stsnd by him as long as he is here, mostly as a Man United fan, but also as a fellow norwegian. 😁.


 

 

30 Dec 2018 10:45:51
It is worth keeping an eye on the Martial situation and I wonder if he will start today's game. If press reports are correct he wasn't ill on Boxing Day but dropped for missing his flight back from Paris on Christmas Day therefore didn't attend the training session put on by OGS. Whilst we don't know the circumstances, if true, it is unprofessional at best. How will his teammates feel who did turn up, how would someone feel if they were dropped from a winning team today to make way for him? It was reported that he missed sessions in summer if I remember correctly.

Players can have fantastic ability but the attitude has to be right. I wonder if SAF's reported invited visit to training yesterday included that message, which he was well known for.

Red Man

1.) 30 Dec 2018 12:13:18
That's interesting if true. But Ole has been talking about him since so it's hard to know.


2.) 30 Dec 2018 12:19:28
I remember ole saying that christmas day was an off day for the players hence sanchez being praised for coming into training when others were off.


3.) 30 Dec 2018 14:56:51
In some respects I hope it is true. Not great if Martial has an attitude but brilliant if OGS has slapped him down.


4.) 30 Dec 2018 15:28:24
DSG

It is reported Ole changed training time on Christmas Day to suit the players, I think to 6pm and it is said that even with that change Martial let him down.


5.) 30 Dec 2018 15:55:19
These are all press reports, and yet we're using them to have a go at one of our players. Since when did we start putting so much faith in what's written in the rags?


6.) 30 Dec 2018 16:13:54
Nou

It was ok for you to believe press reports about Mourinho though wasn’t it? Also this is a rumour site unless I am mistaken

Martial starts today so we get behind him and the team, but there has to be discipline.


7.) 30 Dec 2018 16:43:05
You only post rumours on here when it suits your argument. I didn't like José for his proven actions over the years, not what the papers wrote about him.


 

 

22 Dec 2018 10:06:23
Welcome to the bright new world

It will be so interesting to see what happens later today. The opposition will likely play on whatever centre backs are put out there, balls launched into that area, DDG will need to be commanding. I wondered whether our back line dropping so deep hindered DDG because they left him no room to work. We need to push our defence ten yards higher, connect midfield with attack and see what it brings.

I am bemused by the Solskjaer situation, it smacks of SAF influence but it is hard to understand how we think a loan manager from a Norwegian club is good enough. OGS will certainly have full support, he really is a legend and I expect far greater energy from the team today, I expect us to win but is he equipped to save the season results wise, I am less than convinced about that. People should consider that Giggs had four games and I seem to recall the team slumped back to old ways in the last game, the problems are still there for OGS

It will be interesting to see what support OGS gets in January, will they spend and who is making the decision. We will have a new manager in a few months, on what basis do we buy when it may not suit the next permanent manager, unless we buy a couple of Spurs key players!

If we suddenly see a rejuvenated set of players, people will be on here saying shows how bad Mourinho was. However, it should show how let down we have been by some players, they need rooting out and selling. OGS may be the baby faced assassin again by getting rid of some before the new manager arrives in summer.

Red Man

{Ed025's Note - getting a new manager is only half the problem though red man, you have to get rid of woodward if you are to progress, he is a little weasel who,s arse licking antics to keep the owners happy has been to the detriment of the club mate..


1.) 22 Dec 2018 10:24:47
Ed0025

Totally agree Woodward needs to go back to Finance, away from the football side.

{Ed025's Note - yeah mate, the playing side of things has been overlooked with him in the saddle red man and profits being the main aim over on field success, hes a creepy little scrotum who kow-tows to the glazers who are happy that the bucks are still rolling in even when the team are awful..


2.) 22 Dec 2018 10:38:41
Surely it would make sense to keep Woodward because he certainly knows how to bring money into the club what we need to do is remove Woodward from the football side of the business which is what I'm assuming a director of football would do, act as a go between between the manager and Woodward.


3.) 22 Dec 2018 12:20:01
I think OGS job has more to do with morale as anything else. Not sure about him long term but he will get the players happy and playing, hopefully Pogba and Sanchez. whatever else, they are great players. I still think we already have enough to get us up the league and if Ole gets their heads straight, life for whoever takes over in the summer will be easier. At the moment, we need our identity back and Ole can do that, get the shape and style going and the new manager will see things more clearly. Good luck Ole.


4.) 22 Dec 2018 14:02:33
An article from the Independent on the role of the money men at Manchester United.

'Why Manchester United will always make decisions for profit, not trophies, that reflect its true share price'.

goo.gl/yX24EN


5.) 22 Dec 2018 14:11:45
Discountdave

I believe a Director of Football should report the same way Woodward does, perhaps to the board or owners and not to Woodward. Otherwise how will decisions change from where they are now?


6.) 22 Dec 2018 14:16:22
Ed002's already said Ole will have no input into January transfers, either incomings or outgoings. He's an interim manager. Why would he have a say?

{Ed004's Note - It does seem like we will attempt to make January signings though. In particular there are strong links to both Costa and Milenkovic. So hopefully we will see the club try to sort out problem areas in central defense and out wide right. We have a strong basis in nets, fullbacks, midfield and most of the attack. Two signings could have a massive impact}


7.) 22 Dec 2018 16:28:24
Would you take either of them, Ed004?

{Ed004's Note - I would probably take both of them. Bailly needs a partner who is strong in the air and decent on the ball. While our right side needs someone who can beat a man}


8.) 22 Dec 2018 19:47:10
I like Milenkovic, but I have a feeling Costa might be more trouble than he's worth.


 

 

 

Red Man's rumour replies

 

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17 Feb 2019 15:24:49
Where is this holier than thou attitude coming from? As long as any owners don’t hock the club with debt to buy it, don’t take out significant amounts as dividend or consultancy fees, invest in the infrastructure, improve support for the playing side etc, who are we to suddenly become refined judges? I support the club, I judge owners on how they treat the club, I am not their moral guardians, nor should we be. If the Saudis buy the club and build a world class club we should be grateful. We are well past the position of a fan takeover so let them get on with it and if it means all the money we generate is committed to football matters at last, then good.

Red Man

 

 

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12 Feb 2019 08:19:09
When you allow the players to determine who they play for and who they don’t there is always potential for anarchy.

Red Man

 

 

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03 Jan 2019 22:25:09
As with other young players TFM has sadly not developed and if he isn’t outstanding at a lower level club the chances are he just doesn’t have what it takes and is not going to make it. The fact he has not even established himself in lesser teams which says a lot. I always felt he was a holding midfield player and hopefully he will carve out a career but I can’t see it being in Uniteds first team now.

Red Man

 

 

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02 Dec 2018 22:05:19
There is a present incumbent so the position is not open. Yet it is worrying that some believe the manager of Bournmouth is the answer to one of the biggest clubs in the world. We suffered with Moyes, who had managed a bigger club than Bournmouth. If I was to speculate I would ponder about Conte in present circumstances.

Red Man

 

 

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21 Nov 2018 22:30:20
Shappy

We get it, you want to hang, draw and quarter Mourinho

I think the real question is who is making the decisions because for a manager with such experience it is hard to see why some have been signed, unless they are not his signings. However, you won’t be happy until Jose has been dismissed, so they all have to be his signings to fit the prosecution evidence at his trial

By the way it is hard to argue that Fellaini was not a Moyes signing given where he came from, how and why.

Red Man

 

 

 

Red Man's banter replies

 

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20 Feb 2019 06:50:18
I said elsewhere on here that the club should be looking at Jadon Sancho (if he is interested in coming) but wondered if someone was whispering “bargain” in Ed Woodward’s ear about Douglas Costa. We do seem to have not bought the best or the best potential in most cases for a while. Personally I wouldn’t look at Costa and would look at young high potential young talent like Sancho or Hudson Odoi for our right side but who is making the recruitment decisions?

Red Man

 

 

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17 Feb 2019 13:57:50
LOL Ed

My penneth, “Reports” will likely be made up by journalists so they can ask the club to comment/ deny the rumours. Gives something to write about. Ole has had some good results but I really don’t think a decision should be made yet. Imagine losing our next two games and/ or having a bad run. The club have jumped into poor decisions previously and such a decision would demonstrate the paucity of our whole decision making structure. Why bother with a DOF if Woodward just makes snap decisions?

Wait would be my advice and judge later. I still think Pochettino with a DOF is the best bet at the moment but won’t rule Ole out if he does something spectacular. I appreciate there is an outpouring of affection for one of our own. I would add that if there is to be a change of owner a decision now would be foolish.

Red Man

 

 

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16 Feb 2019 06:50:40
I don't understand why the club would buy Douglas Costa when a young talent like Jadon Sancho is around. Perhaps the club football decision maker knows best, again?

Red Man

{Ed001's Note - who says Sancho would be interested in joining?}


 

 

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14 Feb 2019 08:40:05
Shappy

In games like that it would be better to be pragmatic, get a home draw nil nil, don’t concede. I watched PSG play Liverpool and they expertly beat the press through Veratti so we should see that. One of the points I have consistently made for years is that to win in Europe you have to be able to tighten up midfield. It isn’t good enough to close down opponents, you have to be able to play in triangles in and around each other, manoeuvre the ball but we have never learnt it. SAF said after the first Barcelona final defeat in 09 that he had learned, but he hadn’t. The new manager has to be able to play in a different way and be able to vary tactics, learn to control midfield in tight games or we won’t go anywhere. It isn’t just the players it is the way they are trained. We don’t seem to have ever preached midfield is the key and have too often paid the price in tight games. SAF is old school methods and we have to find a way forward from it or Europe will be the continuing frustration it always has been. We won the two SAF finals in the last minute and on penalties. Yes we entertain but to really stamp a mark in Europe and against major opponents we have to control midfield. It is why we sit with only 3 EC’s.

Why has no decision been made on a DOF? A DOF must report to the board and not Woodward or we will have more of the same.

This leads to recruitment, I keep reading we are interested in Douglas Costa, why? I may be off the mark but are agents whispering what a bargain, and our Exec VC is going for it? Is he the cheaper alternative to the real deal? This is what we have been doing, too often. There is a young exciting talent in Sancho but instead will we buy a cheap alternative that doesn’t hurt the Glazer pockets as much? . The whole situation concerns me and the Happy sounds of Ole doing nicely may be hiding reality and delaying or even preventing the changes that are really needed.

Red Man

 

 

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14 Feb 2019 06:12:16
Shappy

I agree with most of what you said, in fact have said most of it previously. I do think a more tactically astute manager may do better in such games. Ole follows SAF principles but often he and we were found out in Europe because we didn’t change or adapt our tactics. A more tactically astute manager may have done better, people will pile on and disagree but that is what Mourinho was canny at.

One result should not decide Ole’s future but we may know more about him after both Liverpool and Chelsea games.

Still I remain concerned that Woodward will remain in charge of recruitment with no DOF and Ole will be expected to perform under Glazernomics.

Red Man