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Team: Manchester United


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Red Man's rumours posts with other poster's replies to Red Man's rumours posts

 

23 Jul 2018 19:43:22
Who knows how true a rumour is but today it is said Mourinho is meeting Woodward and a member of the Glazer family. It is rumoured Mourinho is not at all happy with transfers. Last summer he openly asked for 4 and they let him down only got 3 and didn't bring in the wide attacker, we can see what has happened this summer and whilst the window isn't closed is anyone else getting the feeling there is a financial squeeze?

I hope Mourinho has the guts to call the owners and Woodward out, something SAF didn't. To get change a business needs to experience pain so for me if there is a financial squeeze I hope Mourinho walks away, leaves us in the mess the club will have brought on itself. Years of no value, LvG saying he didn't get what he wanted, only 3 out of 4 last summer. The trend has to stop now, I hope Mourinho is the one to finally take a stand. What we have isn't good enough, 2 more players, no fullbacks, really? Time for change at Old Trafford.

Red Man

1.) 23 Jul 2018 20:46:59
Red man the club is obviously trying to sell off a few before we can buy. Our moto like citys when they first got money of double or tripling players wages will always come back to haunt us. Weve spent like the moneys burning a hole in our pockets without a clear plan. The club may also view 3/ 8 of joses signings could be gone by the end of the summer that's hardly a good turn around on who the manager is investing in either.


2.) 23 Jul 2018 20:52:36
Hope so RM.


3.) 23 Jul 2018 21:17:56
W16wes

Do we really know how many were Mourinho’s first choice? We know he did not get Perisic. There is a pattern from when the owners arrived and now the club owners need to realise this isn’t a transition from SAF to a new manager but from United to a new dynasty, either City or Liverpool and they are letting it happen on their watch. I have banged on about a plan for years whilst watching City when they were dismissed as noisy. The owners need to have a plan and be decisive, now, right now.


4.) 23 Jul 2018 21:36:52
Walk away without a payoff? Rightfully no way he'd do that.

If mourinho is really that upset, no reason why they can't come to a mutual agreement and a stopgap manager put in charge till next season.


5.) 23 Jul 2018 21:39:44
Think we have spent plenty with the last 2 managers. Our targets are with other large European clubs and so it’s not easy to get them in.
Where is the development of youth? We have a good coaching and scouting system with some excellent youngsters pushing through who won’t get a chance under JM.
It’s not all about pure money.
I like JM but he is a 3 year project which is coming to an end. If he could see the bigger picture then he has the chance to create sonething special at Utd. Our club and fans are more patient and will stick by a manager who is creating a team between bringing in top class and developing youth within. As long as too 4 is achieved people will stick with the project if it’s a long term plan.


6.) 23 Jul 2018 22:49:49
The point is does the club have a plan. It doesn't look like it.


7.) 23 Jul 2018 23:10:52
Mourinho looks completely disinterested during the matches. His demeanor and comments afterward makes it seem like these friendlies are for fitness only, it looks like there are no tactics being worked on. He has also shown very little enthusiasm for his own players. His lack of passion looks like it is spreading to the players, and the fans as well. I think it is shocking that a manager, whatever his resume, can have so little enthusiasm for such a big job.


8.) 24 Jul 2018 04:27:20
Spent millions and people are still hanging on to the poor Jose line .
He didn't get perisic so what it happens, Jose has said he didn't want to come and he signed a nice new deal with inter.
So we went and got Sanchez instead what's the problem?


9.) 24 Jul 2018 06:33:53
Jred

The problem? Fullback, centre half, right side attack to create and score goals, as a minimum.


10.) 24 Jul 2018 06:44:00
Every single manager without exception missed out on at least one transfer target last summer.

It has probably happened to Mourinho every season at every club he has worked at.

Ed002 has said Mourinho doesn't want to be at our club, and that it has little to do with his professional life and more to do with his personal life. That suggests the club aren't doing a lot wrong in Mourinho's eyes.

If he's kicking up a stink it's because he has decided he wants out and is just trying to engineer it. He missed his daughters graduation to be on the preseason tour. From what Ed002 has said that is more likely to have caused Jose's bad mood than a lack of transfers.

6 years ago I would have agreed with you about a lack of investment from the owners. Personally I still think they are investing poorly on quick fixes rather than a long term plan.

However, Jose has spent over 400m so far. A figure matched/ beaten only by Pep at city. So I don't think Jose has a right to claim the owners haven't backed him.

It is not the fault of the money men that the targets Jose wanted haven't worked out. Mkhitaryan already sold. 65m spent on Bailly and Lindelof and yet Jose wants another CB because he isn't happy with the ones he bought. Club record fee on Pogba and now touting him around Europe as again Jose isn't happy with him. Zlatan was only ever a short term fix, yet the club agreed to extend his stay while injured on Jose's say so. Jose then played him 4/ 5 times before he left. He was on a crazy contact by all accounts, so I can't see the club being too happy at extending his contract for him to play less minutes than Scott McTominay.
Sanchez is another who was signed and as yet has not proven his worth.

Then there is the 70m+ worth of young talent in Martial and Shaw which Mourinho shows little interest in developing.

Mourinho has been gloomy and miserable since day one and we can't blame that on the owners. Red man I know your a big Jose fanboy, but it appears I may have been right when I said hiring Jose will end in tears. He just isn't the right fit. I know he has the ego and the drive to win like Sir Alex, but Sir Alex had so much more. It's like taking two ingredients out of your favourite meal and slapping them in something else, it won't be the same as your favourite meal. I love a Sunday roast, and roast potatoes and beef make the meal, however, they would be awful in a trifle, or in my corn flakes.

Sir Alex was the perfect man manager, knowing how to change tact to get a tune out of everyone. With Jose it's his way or the highway.

And so far it looks like it's the highway for around 150-200m worth of our players the most of that players Jose himself has bought. So I could see why the owners might be a little more concerned about trusting Jose's judgement on players this summer.


11.) 24 Jul 2018 07:34:07
Top post Shappy, we’ve spent a lot, some of it badly, bought who the Manager wanted, and he doesn’t play them or wants them gone. It’s the Board’s fault, go figure.


12.) 24 Jul 2018 07:42:54
Shappy

One point I can tell you from your post is very wrong, I am not a Jose “fanboy”, and I have posted who I wanted as manager many times, but why let the truth get in the way of your anti Jose position. When Bailly was playing well Jose got no credit and it was a club decision to buy, now it’s his fault we spent money on him. Pep bought and sold and their club supported him, do we support our own in the same way? Apart from Matic do we really know how many were Jose first choice signings? He needed many positions changing but did he have the budget after years of underfunding? He may have approved some but that doesn’t mean they were his first choice. If you look back at our transfer activity the dip in buying started when the club changed owners, buoyed by the longevity of what was already there and SAF we kept going, the dip started when Ron left and years of underfunding has come home to roost. Looks like we are watching the same dance again this summer.


13.) 24 Jul 2018 08:08:36
Red man, you've always been a huge fan of Jose. Since the mid 00's you have said he would be the perfect replacement for Sir Alex. You said when we hired Moyes that it should have been Jose. Under LvG you said we should have hired Jose. So under our last three managers before hiring Jose you have stated Jose should be our manager. In my books that makes you a bit of a fanboy.

You say the spending has dried up under the current ownership. Yet the the club has broken it's transfer record as many times since Sir Alex has retired as we did under him. We've broken the world record transfer fee and the world record fee paid for a teenager in the last 4 seasons.

Has Jose been backed? Yes, 400m in a shade over two years in charge is certainly some backing.

Your excuse of whether they were Jose's first choice is laughable. Bailly wasn't his first choice, and is probably one of his best signings. He wanted Perisic and got Sanchez a player many of us believe is better than his first choice. Zlatan, Matic, Lukaku were definitely his first choice. Pogba was a player he was interested in at Chelsea. Lindelof was another he wanted after leaning heavily on advice from people he trusts in Portugal.

Regardless of whether they are his first choice, second choice or third choice. They are players he wanted and he got them. So he can have no complaints. No manager gets all the players they want, but they don't for the most part throw their toys out the pram like a petulant child. Especially when only one manager in the history of world football has spent more money than you in such a short space of time.

Jose has been well backed, now he has to deliver. So far this preseason he seems to be getting his excuses in early. I suspect another Jose third season implosion.


14.) 24 Jul 2018 08:27:36
Shappy

Incorrect, yet again. I wanted Jose to replace SAF because it needed someone with stature. I wanted Klopp to replace Moyes and then wanted Pep to replace LvG. It was all written on here, only when Pep declared for City did I suggest Jose. If you get that so wrong when I have repeated it many times what else do you get wrong?


15.) 24 Jul 2018 12:48:45
If the board don't trust Jose, why give him a contract extension. Also if Jose is that unhappy why sign it? Just extra post melt down compo?

{Ed002's Note - The club wants consistecy - Mourinho will be more than happy to take the money. The fans did the damage a couple of years ago and are entirely responsible for where the club is now.}


16.) 24 Jul 2018 15:18:22
Ed 002 - LVG and his awful football had nothing to do with it?

{Ed002's Note - No.}


17.) 24 Jul 2018 18:05:52
Shappy on the money.


18.) 25 Jul 2018 11:26:42
Here we go again. Fans fault. Let’s just remove them from football completely. Ruining it.


19.) 26 Jul 2018 11:20:22
Ed do you mind explaining why the fans are at fault?

{Ed002's Note - The toxics forced the club to change their agreed plan because they are far from bright.}


20.) 26 Jul 2018 12:17:33
The agreed plan being to let Van Gaal see out his project?

{Ed002's Note - And then to be replaced by Max Allegri.}


 

 

17 Jul 2018 09:28:49
No idea how true it is but am led to believe that Woodward is struggling on recruitment (perhaps Glazernomics, perhaps being led up dead ends) and the Manager is not happy with the situation. The next few weeks will be interesting.

Red Man

1.) 17 Jul 2018 09:36:47
If Mourinho is going to be that unhappy with the situation i hope both parties come to some sort of mutual termination before the season starts.

Better that than mourinho sulking for the first half in the season and the club has to end up sacking him.


2.) 17 Jul 2018 12:12:59
or maybe its the fact that this is not football manager and it takes time to complete a transfer.

the panic is already starting to creep in.


3.) 17 Jul 2018 12:56:27
If Jose was an adaptable, modest and inspiring manager he would realise that our squad is only 2 or 3 additions away from being up there with the very best.

However, his insistence on sticking with the only way of football he knows and picking fights with his players has left us with a needed squad overhaul in his eyes.


 

 

01 May 2017 09:31:34
I read this morning that Romero has bought a house in Milan. Obviously no idea if that is true or whether he is leaving but strange place to buy if you play in Manchester.

Red Man

1.) 01 May 2017 13:41:07
Holiday home/ investment property? Doubt he's short of a few quid.


2.) 01 May 2017 18:25:03
Linked with inter.


3.) 02 May 2017 08:23:11
Get the lad from Milan and send them a ready made replacement?


 

 

01 Apr 2017 12:59:16
Today I understand another young reserve (he is 20) has been added to the match day squad, Matthew Willock, in addition to Tuanzebe and TFM. This is down to injuries but also because we have released the older "blockers" in the squad. I hope all three get some time and show what they can do. Like Rashford last season, until they step onto the biggest stage in key matches (the pressure to win is now on), we won't know how they handle it.

Personally I have seen many youngsters debut at OT and there is a buzz of excitement when they step out. Good luck to Willock if he gets on and it will do wonders for the youth/ reserve set up to see progress. I hope young Gomes gets some time soon and possibly Gribben if they continue progress and are physically able.

Funny but today may need Fellaini especially against a West Brom team who can and like to score from dead balls.

Red Man

1.) 01 Apr 2017 17:53:35
Another draw at home, top four just seems out of reach at the moment, Its the old Man Utd way, when teams above us drop points so do we. But the most frustrating thing for me is Micki taken off again and martial and lingard left on.
Hope Jose has a plan for next season regarding strikers, it's plain to see if Zlatan don't score, nor does anyone else. Looks like another season of frustration and missed chances.


 

 

25 Oct 2014 06:38:03
Interesting That the Valdes rumour had been around a while.

13 Aug 2014
Despite being injured I did read a while ago that we had interest in Victor Valdes as competition for De Gea, following Valdes injury lay off but not heard much in a while. Not sure whether Valdes has found a club as yet. I also read that De Gea's girlfriend was encouraging him to move back to Spain and whilst there has been no suggestion he would, a good number 2 could be important

Red Man

 

 

 

Red Man's banter posts with other poster's replies to Red Man's banter posts

 

12 Dec 2018 18:19:35
Most will know that Garner and Greenwood have been involved with the squad for tonight, maybe one will make the bench, even get on. However, look up Shola Shoretire, 14 years and 10 months, who made his debut in our U19 win tonight. Apparently extremely highly thought of and I believe the youngest ever to play at that level. Keep your eye out for him.

Red Man

1.) 12 Dec 2018 19:02:19
And the other fella fish (first name escapes me) is only 15. That current under 19’s side is excellent, I love watching Gomes.


2.) 12 Dec 2018 19:23:00
Good shout red man. The u18s and u19s have done quite well this year. Hopefully a couple in there that will excel.


3.) 12 Dec 2018 20:20:21
Nice to see a Neville back in the team too haha.


 

 

08 Dec 2018 11:04:30
I was interested to read this morning a story that we may be about to sign a young player called Noam Emeran, a 16 year old at French club Amiens. I understand he is a striker and a lot of top clubs were after him. Reports are that a deal could eventually cost £8.9million, with bonuses.

We did the same with players like Chong and Puigmal. It will be interesting to see how these players work out in future. Players like Garner, Greenwood and Chong should be starting to knock at the door next season. I hope that we are getting these players like Puigmal and if it happens Emeran, with a view to play for the first team in years to come and not as a conveyor belt to make money. I wonder who has the Muelensteen coaching role at the club these days.

Red Man

1.) 08 Dec 2018 14:21:24
Some comments attributed to JM this week that the club can no longer just go and buy the best players from the other Prem league clubs. Maybe this is now a shift of recruitment emphasis?

I think we would all like to see some youth players breaking into the first team. To make that possible you have to have world class promise developing in your youth set up. Hopefully a good move.


 

 

Where did it all go wrong for Manchester United?

02 Dec 2018 16:56:17
{Ed's Note - Red Man has posted a new article entitled, Where did it all go wrong for Manchester United?

Red Man

1.) 02 Dec 2018 17:25:44
Red Man

I agree with your conclusion, I think it reinforces that the owners see United as a money making machine where revenue is more important than trophies.

However, the other salient point is how atrocious our recruitment has been. Whether we have bought badly, or we have bought good players but dropped them into a difficult situation I don’t know, but the list of players who have arrived and under performed in recent years is staggering. Park posted an excellent view yesterday (it’s on the others page) where he highlighted the quality we thought we were buying vs the reality of what we got. That is a real conundrum.

As for Woody, I’m not sure how he gets to have a view on squad quality having no experience in the game but it seems he wields absolute power. He delivers the deals that drove the revenue so the owners are happy. We all knew that final title was something of a fluke, delivered by the incredible RVP and most of us said it was the worst United team to have won the League. Fast forward to post SAF, Moyes has said he wanted some big players but ended up with Fellaini, ADM smacked of a statement signing, and since then, there is an ever increasing list of players who have arrived and disappointed. Who is making the decisions, who is deciding who we sign?

You and I will disagree about Jose. I respect and understand your view and I agree that theplayers need to be smacked back into line. However, I think Jose was also a statement signing by EW, but I’m with Sir Bobby on this one.

The fact that there was no preparation for SAF retiring, with Gill allowed to go at the same time, that Moyes was appointed, that Moyes was allowed to get rid of the whole back room staff, it has been poor decision after poor decision. Ed has mentioned the Allegri plan but surely if that plan fails, a new plan needs to be developed. I thInk Jose is trying to get himself sacked right now. He appears unhappy, his comments are often ill thought through, his selections can be baffling, it is only a matter of time before he departs. But that doesn’t solve everything. A new Manager might get more out of our current squad but if we continue to buy badly, or allow EW to decide if we need strengthening, then we are simply putting lipstick on a pig.

We’re of a similar generation, I think you are probably about 10years older than me but we’ve been round the block so to speak. I don’t see a quick solution to this, hopefully we don’t descend into a Liverpool type drought.


2.) 02 Dec 2018 17:27:01
I always find myself agreeing with what you write Red Man and this is no different. Whatever new manager takes over I expect an upturn in performances from the players. It's only natural because this side is underachieving in a lot of games, but we have to be honest with ourselves and say this current boardroom don't particularly care if we're Champions or 4th.


3.) 02 Dec 2018 20:47:00
Red Man, I completely agree. Ed Woodward has brought about so much of the turmoil we currently face on a weekly basis. He has been responsible for what will be two failed managerial appointments by the summer. He has been responsible for our decline, no vision or even an idea about where the club is going. He has prioritised the wrong things, big name signings which help sponsorship deals, he has been focused on growth in every area apart from on the pitch.

But as you point out, what more could we expect from a money man, a man who deals with figures.

My concern though is that he is a loyal Glazer man, and I see no reason why they would demote or sack him. He was elevated to maximise the value of their asset, and he has done so with aplomb. So if he isn't going anywhere anytime soon then I don't see a way out of this. We could bring in a DoF, but my gut says that Ed Woodward has a large ego, and that he isn't likely to hire anyone for that role who will disagree with him or challenge him. So does a DoF really solve anything or would they effectively just be another puppet for the blame to fall on while Woodward avoids the backlash.

We disagree on Jose, and that's fine. But on Woodward I think we are in total agreement. The guy is a serious problem, and he will remain at our club until the Glazers sell up. Which I don't see happening anytime soon. Also, as much as I hate what the Glazers have done with our club sometimes its better the devil you know. I would not be happy with the club being owned by some of the people who have been credited with an interest in buying it.


4.) 02 Dec 2018 20:58:55
Shapps, (and Red Man)

I guess if we start to fail badly then the money will stop rolling in. If we are outside of the top 4 that is tens of millions lost, if we slip in the Leage then the global appeal starts to fade, just look how City’s revenue is quickly rising. Fortunately, some level of success is needed to keep the money rolling in.


5.) 02 Dec 2018 22:14:08
The global appeal is fading, the money will slow, only when reality bites will the Glazers finally question him. My worry is that it is a pack of cards and by the time the owners and some fans wake up to this mess it will be too late.


 

 

11 Nov 2018 09:43:10
Good derby day morning,

Today we play a club in Stockport that sadly appears to be far better run than our own. Whatever the result I think the City juggernaut will mean they are Champions again this season and we are far from having the structure to match them.

This has been allowed to happen under Gill but very much more so under Woodward. Look at our structure. We have Jim Lawlor, appointed by SAF, who is chief scout but also have a "Head of Global Scouting" called Marcel Bout, appointed by LvG! It doesn't stop there, we also have a "Head of Development" called John Murtough, appointed by Moyes. Adding a DOF in there will likely confuse matters further, I suspect that may be delayed until the end of the season.

When it comes to signings Mourinho will have a say but given so many "heads", how much say? Then signings would all need signing off by Woodward. There is a rumour that when signing Pogba, consideration was given to how much his social media might benefit the club. If true it's ridiculous. There are also rumours that the approach of City compared to us, trying to sign players, indicated City were far more coordinated, City know what they want and why. Liverpool and City have a transfer committee, but does anyone know what we do? Easy to blame the manager but unless there is a coordinated approach then it is likely to bring chaos, is that not what we have seen for 6 years?

When we take to the pitch today, I go back to something I posted, I think last season, that we have players from four different philosophies and mind sets at the club, trying to put them together is one reason why we have had difficulties. Trying to get a coherent strategy for anything, the style or transfer activity, must be difficult and compared to City it tells me that unless Woodward gets the structure in place we could be having similar derbies looking up at City for some time.

Red Man

1.) 11 Nov 2018 11:13:50
Well said RedMan.


2.) 11 Nov 2018 11:39:28
Do you actually know what the roles of people you are criticizing are?

Also given that literally none of Mourinho's signings can be called outright successes after spending the money he has, its not just easy to blame the manager it is the only option.


3.) 11 Nov 2018 12:22:29
Every club at this level takes more into account tban just ability when signing a player for that amount of money. It is outdated to think that clubs only care about winning football matches.

As for all the roles you have criticised - unless you have an insider understanding of their roles (rather than titles) then it is unfair to criticise. Indeed, we have spent lots of money and signed plenty big names for managers (except Moyes) . If you are looking for someone to blame then ed002 already said the Board capitulated to 'toxic' fans.


4.) 11 Nov 2018 13:12:26
CSM/ So72

I haven’t criticised anyone, I don’t know the remit for the roles or how they performing them. I have pointed out that there are such roles appointed under different managers who have different playing styles and ask what our coordinated strategy is? The starategy we have been on has hardly been successful has it, however, CSM, you just want to blame the manager. If you carried on doing that we would be in the same situation in 10 years. Definition of madness is keep doing the same thing expecting a different outcome.


5.) 11 Nov 2018 13:31:53
I get your point Red Man but I think we're just looking for excuses.

Chelsea don't appear to suffer the way we have? They replace mangers with alarming regularity yet don't appear to seek out a particular style or character. They've jumped from Ancelotti to Mourinho to Conte now Sarri. All have different approaches and styles yet all have been successful (early days for Sarri) . The truth is good players can adapt to any style or system. I accept that some tweaking is required but Chelsea still have many of the players that won the title under Mourinho.

It's always seemed absurd to me that the manager doesn't have an input or the final say on transfers. Things don't need to be complicated in my opinion.

What we need to do is simply sign better players and appoint better managers. Sometimes players or managers don't work out, even good ones can struggle to settle or adapt.

I'm not advocating we become a sacking Club. We can still operate with fairness and integrity. We should back our managers, give them what they want (within the constraints of the Club obviously) but they must understand that we are an ambitious Club with high expectations which must be met. If come the end of the season those expectations have not been fulfilled then we look for somebody new that can.

Praise City's structure all you want but the reason they are enjoying this period is because of Pep. It's really not rocket science, they appointed the best manager and they have backed their man. Liverpool have improved because of Klopp. We weren't praising their structure or transfer committee under Hodgson or Rodgers?!

So far Mourinho has done ok. Two trophies, fa cup finalist and runners up isn't to shabby. His style has been turgid at times, his methods antagonistic and divisive but for those who expected different don't understand Mourinho. For whatever reason we failed to back him in the summer which explains the poor start. He's had to build bridges, heal wounds (many of his own making admittedly) and we've suffered. If he can turn things around remains to be seen but the moral of the story must be back your manager or don't whichever the case maybe but a halfway house is no good for anyone.

There was success after Busby, there will be success after Fergi. We are a gigantic Club with huge resources. We should always strive to be the best, not accept mediocrity, but that doesn't mean we have to act without honesty or integrity. For me Man Utd should stand for excellence and accept nothing less. Players and managers are paid handsomely to represent this excellence and if they can't deliver then unfortunately we must find others that can. This is the nature of the business, this is the nature of Man Utd. Nobody said it was easy!


6.) 11 Nov 2018 13:56:36
We haven't been great in the market under Jose there's been about 11 players bought in just over two year and only 2 are nailed on starters matic and pogba and they cause debate.
Maybe that's harsh on lukaku who only recently has lost his place, maybe through injury but poor form aswell so who knows and lindelehoff who's beginning to finally be a regular but maybe through default of iffy other options .
Lots of signings under lvg were just as in and out of the side aswell. It's definitely an area we can improve on . It's difficult to apportion blame without knowing the process.


7.) 11 Nov 2018 13:59:23
That saved me having to read the report in the Fail on Sunday, Red Man 😁 I agreed with most of it as well.


8.) 11 Nov 2018 14:55:17
Redman this isn't the first post of yours about how its all down to the management just because you are using new names doesn't change the overall jist of your post, which is blame the glazers and woodward but not mourinho.

What does having people appointed under different manager have to do with anything, i have no clue about what their jobs exactly entail but i highly doubt a head scout will be deciding our football strategy and who he was signed by matters not to me as much as is good at his job does.

Much of the mess mourinho is of his making not woodward's, mourinho's preffered lw choice is blowing hot and cold in serie A, his other 30 yr old signing matic has been a colossal waste of money. But let's blame woodward for saying no more journey men to mourinho. We are into the 3rd season and we are still in the fit pogba into the 11 and get the best out of him stage, but come on let's sell him so that moourinho can screw around with his latest 100 mn signing.

You praise city, one of the reason they are doing well is because guardiola understands what he wants and signs those players and has an actual philosophy and strategy to play football unlike our manager who plays FM with is signings and has no attacking identity or defensive organisation. Last I checked those aren't things anyone other than guardiola is responsible for at city.

Also backing a manager who has had the 2nd worst start to the season, we know how the worst one ended don't we. Does this fit well with your madness analogy?


9.) 11 Nov 2018 15:49:38
CSM

Guardiola arrived at City long after Soriano and Begiristain had set a plan and manoeuvred that club along the planned path as part of it, so on arrival Pep was the cherry on top of the cake. When Pep looks to recruit it will be part of a plan to fit the picture they have, maybe that picture is all about football success and isn’t impacted by social media clicks. Then, remember, Pep will be discussing it with fellow football people, aligned in what they believe in and not financial experts in adding a new noodle partner.
If United hadn’t backed SAF back in 1989.90 and I recall we finished one season about 13th off the top of my head, how successful would we have become? Sometimes sacking the manager isn’t the answer no matter how frustrated some fans like you are. There is more to fix in the background.


10.) 11 Nov 2018 16:23:49
I think Red Man is spot on. Other clubs seem much more coordinated and clear about what they are trying to achieve, we seem a little all over the place. Most of our signings recently have not been huge successes, there are as many that have come and gone that have stayed, and those that have stayed have been mixed.

I hate City but their approach has been long term and focused, Liverpool also seem to have got their act together. We seem to wave a cheque book about, does anyone think Sanchez was anything other than a kneee jerk signing? We lack leadership, EW may be a commercial genius but I don’t think he should be leading the football side.


11.) 11 Nov 2018 16:32:12
Redman fergie was a young manager who was looking to overhaul the club not a middle aged manager who lost his last 2 dressing rooms and whose strategy is trying to get rid of the young talent we have, so as to sign 30 somethings who will give him a trophy or 2 before he goes somewhere else.

Also the financial expert seemed to have gotten Mourinho most of his targets and ones he refused to sell despite Mourinho wanting them gone are ones saving Mourinho's ass this season. Not bad I think, imagine what he could do with another to help him and a manager who actually knows what he is doing.


12.) 11 Nov 2018 16:44:28
Everyone says how City had planned for Pep long before he came, and how they set things up ready for him when he arrived. But how true is that?

Hasn't Pep spent 80m on two goalkeepers?

Hasn't he spent 100m on two new CB's?

Hasn't he spent 200m on FOUR new full backs?

Hasn't he spent another 200m on new midfielders and forwards?

How many of the first 11 were actually at the club prior to Pep taking over?

2 maybe 3. That doesn't sound like they prepared too well for him does it? The only thing you can say they "prepared" for him was that he would be working with a couple of people above him who he had worked with before.

That doesn't sound like City had a plan for Pep. More like they had a plan to set the club up well, hired who they thought was best placed to run the club how they saw fit. Then these people have hired a manager who they knew they had a good working relationship with and who could take the club the next step.

Lets not kid ourselves that City started some grand plan to hire Pep 7-8 years ago and have been building towards it ever since.


 

 

21 Oct 2018 09:02:39
Did that supposed blue tinge that several members of the board allegedly still see around Mourinho, fade completely yesterday?

The ungrateful Chelsea fans chanted at him and their assistant goaded him. Personally his reaction to the goading and crowd said to me there should no longer be any hint of blue tinge.

The tactics and team selection were spot on yesterday, we deserved the win. My only disappointments were Lukaku who didn't seem to move (or move at all) from his comfortable spot in the middle until about 20 mins to go and the concentration of Pogba. Lukaku doesn't seem to add danger or movement in behind, seems to be bulky, doesn't work the centre backs, his control and working the ball is inadequate. He will have to improve and I hope our manager is as tough with Lukaku as he was with Shaw and Martial. However, before spending mega millions on a striker, keep an eye on Mason Greenwood, too young yet but he, like Chong, may have something.

We looked like we have turned a corner, looked like a team and that bodes well for coming matches and hopefully the season as long as the board back the manager.

Red Man

1.) 21 Oct 2018 10:07:43
If the board backed the manager, shaw and martial probably would not be at the club.


2.) 21 Oct 2018 10:36:58
Dsg good point that.


3.) 21 Oct 2018 10:53:40
Also on chong and greenwood, is mourinho the best manager to develop them.

Im just going on evidence, cast your minds back a couple of months to pre season when mourinho spent most press conferences bemoaning the fact he had to take the kids on tour with him.


4.) 21 Oct 2018 12:52:04
Red Man/ DSG - I think you both make good points.

I don't think anyone has ever questioned Martial's talent. He is undoubtedly a brilliant and clinical finisher. The problem has been consistency and perhaps a questionable attitude at times. This is not unusual with young players but we're relying on him to produce the goods now and that's been the problem. Whenever he's been left out of the team it's always felt like he's being punished rather than protected and nurtured.

We've seen some extraordinary players mature and develop at our Club over the years from the Busby Babes to the Class of 92 to Rooney and Ronaldo and many more along the way. We all recognise and understand talent when we see it. SAF always demonstrated great faith in young players but his success at the Club bought him time and patience.

The point about Mourinho is pertinent. I think if he wants to be successful at Utd then he will have to be patient and play the long game. He came to Utd with a glistening CV, the self proclaimed Special One capable of recapturing past glories and chasing the noisy neighbours out of Town.

The problem was Utd weren't ready. We'd fallen behind. We had an unbalanced squad of average players littered with some very promising youngsters. This was never a quick fix. The younger players needed nurturing and patience. Recruitment needed to be intelligent and sensible. The re build slow and steady, piece by piece, brick by brick. Mourinho probably still hurting from his Chelsea catastrophe and fuelled by his own ego failed to recognise that success couldn't be achieved over night and he grew angry and frustrated.

The key to our future success rests at the feet of the likes of Shaw, Martial, Rashford, Bailly even Pogba (if he sticks around) . Recruitment should have been based around helping, nurturing and getting the best out of them not replacing them. Rojo, Darmian, Fellaini, Maybe even Smalling and Jones were the players that needed replacing.

By chasing success we have ignored the very principle's that got us there in the first place. Patience, trusting in youth and a commitment to attacking football.

Maybe the penny has finally dropped. The last couple of games have seen a return to the old Utd. Thrilling come backs, filled with drama and entertainment. I'm not sure we've ever really played beautiful football but it's always been thrilling and unpredictable and perhaps that's always been our biggest draw.

If a line in the sand can be drawn, if a deeper understanding of our style and tradition can be gauged, if the politics of the Club can be overcome, if patience and restraint can triumph over ego and self importance then I see no reason why this marriage of convenience can't enjoy some happy years together. Maybe the bigger issue is has the damage already been done? Time will tell I suppose.


 

 

 

Red Man's rumour replies

 

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02 Dec 2018 22:05:19
There is a present incumbent so the position is not open. Yet it is worrying that some believe the manager of Bournmouth is the answer to one of the biggest clubs in the world. We suffered with Moyes, who had managed a bigger club than Bournmouth. If I was to speculate I would ponder about Conte in present circumstances.

Red Man

 

 

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21 Nov 2018 22:30:20
Shappy

We get it, you want to hang, draw and quarter Mourinho

I think the real question is who is making the decisions because for a manager with such experience it is hard to see why some have been signed, unless they are not his signings. However, you won’t be happy until Jose has been dismissed, so they all have to be his signings to fit the prosecution evidence at his trial

By the way it is hard to argue that Fellaini was not a Moyes signing given where he came from, how and why.

Red Man

 

 

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21 Nov 2018 21:02:02
Shappy

Were they all Mourinho’s signings? I refer you to Ed’s post lower down. “he was well down the list of options available although remained of interest - but as they have failed to sign who Mr Mourinho has wanted he is again an option”.

You can keep blaming the manager for everything, but have to ignore what the Ed tells you.

Red Man

 

 

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13 Nov 2018 19:15:56
Shappy

“Sir Alex was at the start of his career”, when he came to us is what you are saying. Off the top of my head he had been managing for about 12 years, including about 6 at Aberdeen winning leagues and cups and was about 46 years old when he came to Utd, only 9 years younger than Mourinho is now. So Mourinho was about 6 years older than SAF when he arrived.

Many of the other managers you mention have leadership above them that gives more direction and stability with a modern infrastructure, players don’t think the manager will be ditched when toxic fans start moaning loudly so they have to work. They knew SAF was going nowhere so it was work or get the boot, it is why they gave Moyes a 6 year contract to offset that psychology but it didn’t work.

When do we say the players are also a problem or doesn’t that suit the agenda?

Red Man

 

 

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13 Nov 2018 06:45:18
Oh Jred

Still trying to show Moyes was better, he inherited a fully confident team of Champions, Jose a rag tag bunch from 3 previous managers.

A very large part comes from the poor performance of the players, they are the ones making regular errors, can't defend, can’t pass 5 yards or put the ball in the net. No Jose is not without blame or criticism but this is us failing as a club for many reasons not just the one you keep going on about.

Red Man

 

 

 

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06 Dec 2018 20:39:32
Mancman

The more the criticism of our manager/ s, the more difficult our situation, the less likely the manager will take a chance on youngsters, sadly that is reality. Calls for a managers head means he has to survive and that will likely mean more experienced players. That would be the same under any manager. SAF had given himself breathing room, still there was extensive criticism when he bloodied the kids in 95 and more when we lost the first game.

Which young defenders? Looks generally like they haven’t made that step up to the very top level. If they were good enough they would force their way in. Dalot could be decent and he has been given a chance but he has to show he has it, others have to step up. We have some good young players, Garner, Chong, Greenwood, Puigmal, but they have to make the step. They have a better chance with us than City. That said I wish we could get our hands on young Foden.

You are right on midfield, very poor right now.

Red Man

 

 

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06 Dec 2018 18:29:29
Some may miss Shappy’s rapier point. Just to make sure you don’t. It isn’t the paucity of our centre backs that is the problem but it is because we have not adapted the way we play like “so many other teams”. Basically it is the managers fault. It’s like one of those diagrams that keep finding the way back to the same point.

Our centre halves are not good enough, period. There is no leader, no “on the header” centre half, no one dominating the defence and when that doesn't come from the goal keeper it develops weaknesses. Yes defend from the front but it’s no good playing while looking over your shoulder behind you. We have no commander to look up to, no organiser, no one to step out with the ball and until we get that commander our defence will remain wobbly regardless of tactics. Anyone who played knew a commanding centre half was what a team was built on.

If you want a discussion then maybe DDG’s lack of command is not helping the centre halves. The Great Dane is still the best I have ever seen, powerful and commanded his defenders. DDG doesn’t but is more agile. I have played in defence in front of both types and felt more comfortable with a Schmeichel type than a DDG. Maybe just psychological but you knew where your keeper was with a commanding one, it kept communication lines tighter. It all combines to the defensive frailty of where we are.

Red Man

 

 

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03 Dec 2018 21:46:00
It is only speculation

However from the outside the club seems driven by finance and the ever burgeoning list of money spinning sponsors. Moyes and LvG were sacked after they failed to make top 4 with widespread speculation that there was a contract clause meaning the club had to pay out less. If profit and asset value is such a significant driving force then it will lead to such speculation.

Red Man

 

 

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03 Dec 2018 20:13:57
Becks58

I started supporting in August 68, I don’t remember anything before that. For years until 1976 I lived off stories of the Babes, the greatness of Charlton Law Best and Edwards. The TV was black and white and there were no Premier League years to reminisce on. I watched the fading glory of the three greatest players of the era. I watched Charlton retire, Law go to City, I was there when Law backheeled in 74, I was there one day to see Georgie walk on the pitch. It was all downhill, yet my late brother assured me things would get better. I trusted him like your lad will trust you. It was a badge of honour to support when we were garbage, to live through times when City and Liverpool were better. Keep the faith and he will.

Red Man

 

 

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02 Dec 2018 22:14:08
The global appeal is fading, the money will slow, only when reality bites will the Glazers finally question him. My worry is that it is a pack of cards and by the time the owners and some fans wake up to this mess it will be too late.

Red Man