Manchester United discussion 3

07 Apr 2024 13:57:19
I really wanted ETH to be successful, he is well respected by Pep, did well at Ajax, it felt like a new beginning. Last year was encouraging, albeit we folded badly several times. But a cup, a final, and Champions League qualification was a decent return for season 1.

However, instead of building on that, we made many mis steps, driven primarily by the incompetence of the people running the club.

1. Onano took a long time to settle and I still think we concede goals that DDG would have saved. It was time for a new keeper but Onana was a poor signing.

2. We needed a proven goalscorer to lead the line, but signed a raw kid. I like Hojlund, he may become a great player but he wasn't what we needed. Good signing, wrong timing.

3. We signed Mount, and nobody seems to know why. Yes he has been injured but it seemed a very strange signing at the time.

That's £179M right there. Would Spurs have sold Kane to us for £120M?

It's plain ridiculous that we held on to players we don't want or need, and didn't sign what we did need.

Back to ETH. A lot of issues are not his fault, but I don't see a plan, a style, or players improving. He talks about a process, I have no idea what that is.

There are chinks of light, Mainoo Garnacho, Hojlund, Dalot, but beyond that? Cas looks done, Martinez is permanently injured, our Captain contributes little nowadays, Antony ranks right up there with the biggest robbery in history, ans Rashfords attitude is appalling.

I never wanted Conte but that sort of character is what is needed right now, take no prisoners, have the right attitude or get out. I fear ETH us now out of his depth and doesn't know what to do next.

07 Apr 2024 14:34:29
Jesus, Rashford starts today.

07 Apr 2024 14:52:08
Agree with most of that AJH.
There are reasons we can't just dump players and pay them off. The effect that has on the books would have taken us into trouble with the profitability rules.
Rest is bang on imo.

07 Apr 2024 19:03:19
We had that character in Mourinho AJH, and it ended badly. Conte would be a disaster.

Now under the new football regime, perhaps things would be different, but not for me.

07 Apr 2024 19:57:09
Must be watching a different onana AJH, been superb over the last few months. Are we forgetting the countless mistakes De Gea was making toward the end of his career.

Mount hasn't even started to get going yet. He's a good player that adds to the squad. Give him a bit of time.

Not for us to know ETHs process.

07 Apr 2024 20:53:17
Correct angel but I also think he is keeping it a secret from the players.

08 Apr 2024 09:56:24
I watched us act like a mid table team playing away at Anfield yesterday, that was our mentality and Keane rightly called ETH out on it. Liverpool had a plan, a pattern you could see, front to back whilst we floundered. ETH was positive afterwards, yet he made strange decisions, yet again, what planet was he on to put Rashford in? He took off Garnacho and when Bruno missed a tackle the ended up with the penalty. Garnacho and Antony were our out balls yet he cancelled one and put Bruno on the left wing.
ETH is suddenly talking everything up, knows he is in trouble, yet we had a small club mentality yesterday, seemingly happy just to disturb their title challenge. Not good enough for me. Yes enjoyed not losing to a big team but that what it has come to under ETH. AJH I think ETH is a bit lost not understanding where he is.

08 Apr 2024 11:03:38
He's a dead man walking. He knows he is out if a job come the summer.
Despite him being ex bayern he was not under consideration for them.
Ajax have been offering their job astound and he is not high up on their list for a return and never under consideration for Barcelona.
No top club will want him.
I hope he picks up a good job. I'd like to see him get another chance at a smaller club to see if he can learn from his poor spell at united.
I'll wish him well when he leaves in the summer.

08 Apr 2024 11:24:52
Ken

Said it on the live chat. he is nowhere near dead man walking and I know what ed002 has said. Its not even in those realms and hate to bust your bubble.

It comes from very high up the chain of people at the club and contrary to you lot having a melt down after every bad result, that's not what the focus is atm it depends on a few things post season end and discussions with eth first and foremost and if he is going to be stubborn about it or give some way.

07 Apr 2024 11:32:30
I'm fully expecting Utd to get a good thrashing this afternoon. As we know Utds form is woeful and Liverpool will be out for payback.

Thank god it's not at Anfield.

Oh well, shoud be laugh.

07 Apr 2024 11:59:55
Depends which United turns up today, hopefully the one that gave Liverpool a game in the cup but you just have no confidence in them from game to game, if we are to lose today at least go down fighting and not with a whimper.

07 Apr 2024 14:24:33
Realistically I expect us to be beaten very badly today. Would not surprise me if we lost by four or more goals. Yet because you never know which Utd will turn up there is a faint hope that we might draw or win. As they say. "it's the hope that kills you"

07 Apr 2024 14:46:22
I'm with you full of hope but no confidence.
Hope big willy plays well big day for him.
I don't think we will get a hiding.
They have better players and a better coach but we have proved only a couple of weeks ago that with a bit of luck you always have a punchers chance.
We can be effective against them they are susceptible to a counter attack so you never know.
Rashford starts so let's see if that helps or hinders.

07 Apr 2024 15:09:39
Radhford starts? Seems like ETH is trying to get fired.

Either the man is an idiot or he wants out and is trying to secure being paid off the rest of his contract.

07 Apr 2024 17:32:07
Great result. I love how football can make fools of any of us. I'm happy to be today's fool.

07 Apr 2024 20:48:14
I'd happily play them every week! The atmosphere alone is sensational ?.

06 Apr 2024 22:10:49
Or you could as the manger make statement and drop him!

06 Apr 2024 14:00:23
watching city and must have had 30 to 40 passes for that third goal. They never force anything and so good at keeping the ball and probing. even their wing play is all about ball retention.

05 Apr 2024 16:14:38
We don't have anyone at the back including our keeper organising, Evans and Varane are capable but too old now, Lindelof, Maguire AWB are very poor, Dalot is inconsistent. ETH wants to play out from the back but only Licha, Shaw and maybe Dalot can do it. The manager must take a lot of the blame, but injuries haven't helped. Still think he will be sacked at the end of the season.

05 Apr 2024 20:54:38
What has organising got to do with age? Lol.

06 Apr 2024 08:02:10
I have watched and listened to keane a lot over the years. He always says when you are on the pitch the players sort things out and manager influence is overstated. He always talks about telling players to sit here, you go there and etc etc. He would have a melt down with some our guys and how we take care of the ball or wonder up the pitch leaving big gaps.

Sometimes it works and sometimes its to the detriment of some players not having a dictator on the pitch. Scholes told me a story how keane would berate Veron all the time for some of his passes and losing possession and his positioning. He made it very unpleasant for Veron during his short stay at united rightly or wrongly. Scholes has a very high opinion of Veron and thinks fergie screwed the pooch on that one.

06 Apr 2024 09:51:21
Screwed the what? Veron was silky smooth, so skillful. I recall Fergie berating a press meeting saying, “Veron is a f*****g great player and yous are f*****g idiots!

08 Apr 2024 11:05:30
Got you listened to keane yesterday.
He felt eth had been on the drink?.

05 Apr 2024 15:20:26
Quick question for the Eds. Can a women be the manager of a Premier league team?

{Ed002's Note - Sure.}

06 Apr 2024 11:15:13
Interesting. We're only talking about men managing Utd. Are there any women who should be included in the conversation?

The right female manager would bring a fantastic dynamic to the club and the dressing room.

We all know that if the world was run by women it would be a much better place.

I'm wondering if there are any female managers who have the experience to be considered? I suppose if Southgate is in the conversation then why not Sarina Wiegman?

{Ed002's Note - It is not going to happen.}

06 Apr 2024 12:00:27
I'm under no illusions on that Ed002. Football hasn't evolved to that point yet but it's just a matter of time before women will be managing premier league teams.

{Ed002's Note - It happens elsewhere but no PL has considered a female manager.}

06 Apr 2024 20:54:53
I’m hoping that SJR, SDB etc are putting the effort and investment into the Man U Ladies team: just look at how well Man City ladies are doing after being properly resourced etc.

05 Apr 2024 12:55:17
Questions for Ed02. Who is the one who implements the philosophy/ style of play at a club. At first I thought it was the manager, and the club would buy players who suits he's style, but now am seeing based on reports that Ineos/ backroom members wants to implement the style and find a manager/ coach who suits it. Reason for asking, our incoming CEO was part of the Barcelona and City set up, so would he be inclined to adopt that philosophy at United.

{Ed002's Note - It varies. For example, Marcel Brands had previously implemented the same style of football across all age groups very successfully at PSV but when employed at Everton with the same remit he was not able to appoint the Head Coach he wanted in Arteta by an advisor to Moshira who was behind much of the recruitment. At other clubs, such as Manchester City, the DoF implements a style working with the Head Coach. The incoming CEO and the part owners will not be resonsible for the style of play.}

05 Apr 2024 14:19:48
I presume it will be the responsibility of Ashworth, Wilcox AN Other and of course the coach as to the style of play.

06 Apr 2024 17:27:16
How Everton must be regretting that!

{Ed002's Note - I agree.}

05 Apr 2024 09:13:10
“In the last 11 years, Manchester United have had a lot of coaches and nobody has been very successful in that environment. That says to me there is something wrong with the environment. ” This is a recent quote from SJR. I’ve always believed ETH deserves a chance to work under this structure but I fear that won’t be the case now. Sadly we have a large fan base that mirror today’s society where they want instant gratification. This is something that is very hard to achieve in football today due to the influence money has on the game and I fear for the new manager who comes in and doesn’t change this teams mindset, attitude, desire and ability within 6 months.

Last night I watched an academy lad who is a local boy, a Manchester United Supporter come on at number 9 and when our right winger went past the Chelsea full back, showed zero desire to get in the box, instead, trotted forward. And worst of all, not one United player gave him a mouthful for not getting in the box.

“The first day I went to Manchester United, I was watching eight versus eight possession.

Roy Keane - who's a warrior, not just an athlete, not just a competitor but a warrior, the mindset of a warrior - his team have got possession.

Denis Irwin has got the ball. He's looking up, he's trapped, he's going to lose the ball. Roy Keane makes a beautiful run and signals 'Denis! ' where he wants the ball. Denis doesn't see him, doesn't hear him, doesn't respond and loses the ball.

Roy Keane ran 40 yards to challenge his teammate: 'Get your head up. ' I was shocked.

I was stood next to Alex Ferguson, the manager of Manchester United. He said son, 'Now you know why we win on a Saturday. We win on a Saturday because we have the mindset to train every day. ”

You can absolutely criticise the manager but I honestly believe individuals feel a change of manager will solve everything. Open heart surgery was the most accurate statement about this squad made in recent times.

05 Apr 2024 10:41:15
Ports who has said a change of manager will bring instant results?
I've never seen or heard any fan say or expect that.

05 Apr 2024 11:15:43
Classic Ken reply, not actually quoting what’s said. Didn’t say people have said that, I said I believe people feel like that’s what will happen and you can decipher that through what people write on here.

05 Apr 2024 11:26:20
That's odd I don't get that impression at all. I don't think anybody sees a quick fix or that any single decision will turn our fortunes around.
I don't understand how you draw your conclusion at all.
Nobody I've ever seen has intimated all will be OK with a change of manager and things will change dramatically for the better.
Very odd how you seem to think that that's what people are saying.

05 Apr 2024 11:41:08
Ports you can decipher very little from the written word unless its clear an unambiguous.
Tone and body language account for 93% of of verbal communication conclusions and recollections ( only 7% is accounted for by the words spoken) so it's impossible to be accurate trying to interpret the meaning behind the written word unless it's direct and clear.
You may have an opinion but it very unlikely to be accurate trying to interpret what people are saying in the written word unless, that's compounded by the fact you don't know the person that's writing at all.

05 Apr 2024 12:22:18
"Last night I watched an academy lad who is a local boy, a Manchester United Supporter come on at number 9 and when our right winger went past the Chelsea full back, showed zero desire to get in the box, instead, trotted forward. And worst of all, not one United player gave him a mouthful for not getting in the box. "

I know the exact moment you're talking about and I said out loud to myself "Rashford get in the box! " but no, he just does his casual little jog like always.

05 Apr 2024 12:44:35
It was the first thing i noticed when he (Rashford) came on.
That man is an absolute disgrace and i would not pick him in the starting line up again this season.
He is just taking the p*ss and has been all season.
I am absolutely sick to the back teeth of these players robbing a living from the club and mugging the fans off.

05 Apr 2024 12:47:30
I remember that exact moment. I was screaming at the TV for him to get into the box.
What a cross by Anthony for the 1st goal. Perfect delivery and finish.

05 Apr 2024 13:11:29
3rd goal rather.

05 Apr 2024 13:22:05
Ken, most of your responses to posts on here are what you decide you are going to interpret and decipher what the original poster is saying so that it suits your argument. Evidence of your first response to my post in this thread!

05 Apr 2024 13:41:31
The Rashford example here is a prime example of why a new manager will not make a blind bit of difference. That’s not a coaching issue, that’s not instructions from ETH. That’s the type of player he is working with. Along with others of the same ilk or who just aren’t good enough.

My criticism of ETH in this situation would be he should have stuck Ethan Wheatley up there but no manager in the world would do that.

As for this intense training nonsense and players not being fit enough, I watched them give everything for 120 minutes against Liverpool, one of the fittest teams in the league, come from behind twice and win in at the death. Fitness and commitment wasn’t an issue then!

05 Apr 2024 14:11:48
Based on that Liverpool game ports we don't have an issue with player ability either.
Which is why most people look at trends over an extended period of time to make big decisions not look at isolated incidents or occasions.
If youthink there is no coaching issue with a team that have negative goal difference and have lost more that a third of our league games and finished bottom of our cl group and have the most shots against in any of the top 5 k eagues in Europe then your entitled to that view.
I beg to differ and I think that people people who are educated in make their living from the games will look at things differently than you do.

05 Apr 2024 14:22:51
arteta was exactly the same Ken, he lost 36 league games in 3 seasons. That's mental!

And look, he's still there, close to the league title last year, right in the mix again this year.

Stick with ETH, or go get Potter or Southgate ?.

05 Apr 2024 14:45:32
? once again Ken just literally making stuff up. Where have I said there is no coaching issue with this team? I am pointing out a fundamental problem with a player, which is a common theme which has nothing to do with coaching. Do you think ETH has coached Rashford to not press or run into the box when our winger has a chance to cross?

If I was to respond to your posts the oway you do to others instead of actually reading and processing what the post reads, your post now would suggest that you think players have to take zero responsibility for their performances. You’re entitled to that view but I disagree.

05 Apr 2024 15:15:10
Ports where exactly did I say you said they're was no visible issue.
You really need to lean how to read.
'If you think' is hardly the same as you said.
Once again you are too eager to argue before you read.

05 Apr 2024 15:20:57
I'm quite sure ports eth has not told rashford not to try.
So either his coaching is not getting through or being ignored so the next coaching issue then is team selection. Why would a coach pick a player that openly defies him. Last time a player did that he ended up eating his lunch out of a lunch box on his own.
So several coaching / managing issues to be answered.
1 player either being coached badly or ignoring the coach
2 said coach ignoring the fact that he is being ignored
If you think there is no coaching issue then your entitled to your view.

05 Apr 2024 15:29:24
I tried leaning to work Ken but I fell over. As previously stated, you can decipher what people mean, if you didn’t mean it, it’s a pointless remark you’ve made as it has no link to the topic of conversation, a players attitude.

05 Apr 2024 16:04:44
Who else does he play? Our squad is so light he’s literally our only option who can play that role who’s available other than Højlund. Yes I said throw Wheatley up there but that would never ever happen. So sometimes you just got to hope that some of the talent Rashford has, some of the statements he comes out with will come through. He could have gone Fernandes false 9 and Mount in there but we know he’s easing Mount back in and I can imagine the uproar if he’d started Fernandes as a false 9. Genuinely not sure what you want him to do with the current available players.

05 Apr 2024 14:34:32
Really good coach angel. I'm a big fan and had many a debate with ed025 on it.
It's not a good comparison to make
Different boards
Different coaches and people
Different players
Different philosophy to eth
Different manner to eth
Epl experience as player and coach.
Not a great comparison the situations are entirely different.
You could compare the coach you wanted fired lvg with eth
Or indeed Jose another coach you wanted fired with eth
Or indeed ole another coach you wanted fired with eth
I think they, particularly lvg is a better comparison.

05 Apr 2024 19:20:13
Good post Ports.

06 Apr 2024 11:20:18
Ports, he plays absolutely anybody other than Rashford. That includes, you, me, your gran, my dog. It doesn't matter as long as its not Rashford.

There has to be zero, bloody ZERO tolerance for that kind of crap that Rashford is serving up.

06 Apr 2024 20:26:08
I wanted Jose kept Ken, I think he would have worked had the club had a proper structure in place. I wanted LVG gone because Jose was the one available. Ole? Come on.

Why isn't arteta a good example? Because of different coaches, players, board, philosophy etc. I mean isn't that every single club and manager in the world? I know why he isn't a good example because it doesn't support your narrative. Arteta was under more fire than ETH, was given time and is succeeding, of course he's not a good example for you ????

Fergie maybe? With no EPL experience then, also allowed time. Inherited a mess of a squad and took years to sort. But time was given and success was had. Also wanted sacking by the fans lol.

I don't think any comparison made will appease you or make any dent because you have made up your mind. And when you make up your mind, it's done.

So probably best we don't have these discussions, they won't work either way ?.

05 Apr 2024 00:37:35
Up until lately I have been in the keep the faith in the manager camp, tonight that has changed, not for the first time in games we was controlling, well to a point he goes and subs our main threat and while on a hat trick I may add.

Surely by now he also knows that we can't hold a lead by going defensive, when we use attack for our first line of defense then we look better, not by much but we do.

A poor showing in our next few games and I would hope that is the end for ETH, He is well out of his depth in the prem league.

05 Apr 2024 02:42:20
Controlling? A massive mistake by Chelsea let Utd back into the game + a worldie cross from Antony that we’ll never see again got Utd back into the game. Don’t see that as controlling.

05 Apr 2024 06:04:32
I’m so conflicted. I think it’s a straight choice now. Back the coach and and entirely strip the squad out, or keep backing the core nucleus and bring in yet another new coach.

Tougher choice, but I’m moving on the perennial underachieving children. So much money wasted and being wasted.

05 Apr 2024 06:14:48
Great game of football last night which either manager would’ve been unlucky to lose. End to end, both teams going for it. That’s how it should be. I’d rather go down fighting and lose like that, than draw in such a poor manner as we did against Brentford.

Many positive to take including Antony having a good game, Garnacho’s workrate and goals. I have no idea what Casemiro is doing half the time, and once again the injuries that we are so unlucky with.

Overall a great game of football. The CL qualification is gone now so why not be more expansive in the league and see where it takes us.

05 Apr 2024 07:53:09
I enjoyed Antony's performance last night and Garnacho's but Casimiro was terrible. A lot saying Rashford shouldn't have came on but for me Hoijland done nothing all game so it was right to sub him. I wouldn't give Wan Bissaka a squad number, I don't get that guy at all.

05 Apr 2024 10:36:28
Had a bit of time to calm down a bit now, I still can't understand why he continually takes the best player off in a match when we have a slender lead and then tries to close a game out, sometimes with around 25 mins left.

Rashford has downed tools and i wouldn't play him for the rest of the season, putting zero effort in you might as well leave Hojlund on even if he hasn't done much and as for Casimiro he is so much off the pace it is scary.

05 Apr 2024 10:56:53
JIM

Talking bs. Rashford effort rate was not the issue last night but he seems to be a popular target. talking sh. t. toxic club, toxic fans and no wonder we are were we are.

05 Apr 2024 11:13:03
Good post Jim and on the money.
Tactically an awful decision. Like playing with 10 men with rashford on.

05 Apr 2024 16:56:10
Ahmad

What is bs, Rashford has been lazy this season and he has not been the only one and also would you have taken your best player off last night, ETH has made some dreadful decisions lately.

Last night best form of defense was attack, it was working, Garnacho and even Anthony was a threat all night, Hojlund was pulling players out of position, so tell me what was the logic in taking a player who is on a hattrick and being a real threat off, di pep do that with Foden the other night. no.

not toxic mate just not blind.

06 Apr 2024 09:37:03
Rashford work rate was very much an issue. It’s disgusting what he did on Thursday. He made absolutely no effort, let the team down, helped Chelsea because they could push up with more confidence. We should sell Rashford, if we can, in summer. Awful decision by ETH to take Garnacho and Hojland off and leave the outlet as Rash, terrible decision.

06 Apr 2024 12:09:53
Redman, not the first time this season he has took the biggest threat of the pitch and gone defensive, it never works, the manager has defended Rashford all season but his lacklustre performances can not be defended much longer.

If you are going to call out Sancho for his training and attitude then you can't give Rashford a free pass after the way he has been playing.

04 Apr 2024 22:58:03
I was on the fence over ETH.

Not anymore. He has to go.

Ultimately he is the one responsible for the team performance. Yes the players are not brilliant, but they are much better than what he's getting out of them.

To have a negative goal difference is criminal. To concede the amount of chances we do game after game is unforgivable. To only show fight and effort in some games is shameful.

There are plenty of teams in the league with worse players who manage to defend well and still score goals.

Forest don't have better players, but they managed to beat Fulham. Brighton don't have better players than United, yet they only conceded 5 shots to Brentford this week compared to 30+ we did. Burnley definitely don't have better players, but they got a point away to Chelsea with 10 men for over half the game. Isolated examples, but shows it's not about having the highest paid players, it's about coaching them to play as a team and the players putting a shift in and wanting it.

It's a miracle he's managed to get them to 6th to be honest.

He's either not coaching the players what to do which he should be fired for, or they're not listening to him. If they don't do what he asks he should have the strength to not play them, no matter who they are or how much they are paid a week. I've seen better tactical brains in pub teams.

Don't get me wrong, most of the players should be ashamed of themselves. But you can't sack players. So it's goodbye ETH.

I used to be like many others who think giving ETH another season with a better footballing department above him would be worthwhile. But 99% of performances scream he isn't very good with tactics, coaching or motivation. So why waste another year hoping it will turn out good. Just bite the bullet and move on.

Club needs a new manager with the power to do what he wants with the players at the club even if that means taking some big financial hits. We can't go into another season with some of these wasters.

04 Apr 2024 23:36:17
Defo ten hags fault for dalot diving in and giving a pen away when there were players there ready to go for the tackle in the box

Ten hags fault for dalot then losing the ball trying to go forward to then Chelsea getting a corner

Defo ten hags fault for no one marking palmer and then also his fault the ball deflected off dalot again to go in the net


When is the point where we actually start to blame the players? The same players that have thrown the last 4 managers under the bus and got them the sack


Sack ten hag get another manager in, those pretenders who call them selves man untied players then get a bounce and another chance at yet again another manager

12 months later we’re back on here talking about the same thing.


That defence cannot defend it is amazing how we are where we are.

05 Apr 2024 01:38:30
Nobody as far as I can tell is defending the players. They are to blame for a lot if not most of what happens on the park. Nobody is stepping up to lead.

But ETH is the man who should be dictating and demanding 100% effort and commitment and not rewarding or defending mediocrity week in week out.

How many times does it need to be said. There are teams with far worse players than ours who are willing to put in a shift and get results.

If he is worth his plaudits he should be getting a tune out of even the worst players in the squad. If not then he is far too one dimensional and will struggle again when the chips are down and we lose a few players.

I was firmly on the give him a crack side of the fence but now he must go. If we keep him and get the right players in and we struggle again then we are in the same boat. Simple equation. You have one chance to fix an issue. If there are two possible problems and you don’t know 100% the actual causal factor then get rid of both.

05 Apr 2024 02:45:02
Guess there has to be a fall guy ??.

05 Apr 2024 06:49:04
I should have added one small caveat to my original post, if the successor to ETH is Southgate then I take it all back, ETH can stay for as long as he wants!