21 Apr 2024 22:19:56
It looked to me that he took Garnacho off to reaffirm his authority rather than for any tactical football reason. The team then looked bewildered and lacking any confidence in what he was doing, then he took Mainoo off and they just thought we are managed by an idiot.
Parcel it up how you want but the manager is incompetent.
Yes we got through but when Rasmus scored the penalty to take us through where were the players running to the fans? Embarrassed and utterly lacking team spirit. That is what Ten Hag has done, not shown the discipline he thinks but destroyed all cohesion and team spirit.
21 Apr 2024 22:50:34
Red Man the players on the pitch should be good enough to see that through. I've said it time after time that I have no idea how to judge ETH, but I am very clear that there is a cohort of players there that are either not good enough or have awful attitude. Years of dreadful recruitment and contracting practices have led to this.
22 Apr 2024 00:33:42
It’s barely been two weeks since a big thread about the manager needs to manage Mainoo’s minutes.
It was 3-0 and looked over when Garnacho came off. It was the right thing to do.
22 Apr 2024 01:43:07
We played against a weakened championship team. We had 11 players on the park everyone of which, on paper, is superior to the team we played and yet were shown the way with desire, passion, effort and belief.
How can 11 internationals not have the ability to outplay and out perform Coventry.
Don't give me this inconsistent selection claptrap. Against that opposition, regardless of the 11 on the park, they should be able to walk it and yet served that rubbish up yet again.
I was firmly on the give ETH a go bus but have long since come to the conclusion that he is out of his depth. The tactical lack of sense and the rubbish he speaks in his conferences is evidence enough that he cannot and will not cut it at United or indeed any top UK teams.
We cannot afford to keep sacking managers. Hell I’d be the first to shout that from the rooftops but we cannot go forward with this one at the helm or we will be royally screwed for his tenure and another 5 years from that.
22 Apr 2024 01:44:34
Is sportsmanship getting worse in this game. Martinez then Onana and Antony. Kids will copy this nonsense.
22 Apr 2024 04:41:39
Game management at 3 0 shouldn't be a problem against a championship team, we couldn't even do it against Chelsea in injury time.
22 Apr 2024 06:39:57
Garnacho subbed v Liverpool v Chelsea v Coventry, coincidence?
DonRed, yes but it looks to me like they see what the manager decides, and realise it is dumb or stupid, the tactics dumb or stupid and are half hearted because they see the favouritism towards Rashford. They should be able to control a game against a Championship outfit but they are also human and clearly look like they lose motivation by not believing what the manager tells them any more. Players need selling but the problem will persist because ETH looks clueless and it will affect new players. In fact the existing players will probably tell new players not to come near while this manager is in charge.
22 Apr 2024 08:04:17
Red Man, it could be that the kid is 19 years old and has started 33 consecutive matches and probably needs to have his minutes managed to avoid injury/ burn out.
22 Apr 2024 08:47:49
We took Mainoo off as it went to 3-1. Common sense says give it 5-10 mins and take the sting out of it.
He comes off and it’s open season on our goal.
With nothing left to play in the league we should be starting to rotate massively now and give some chances to some kids, Amad etc.
22 Apr 2024 09:09:17
Mainoo for eriksen is just crazy when the other midfielders are mctominay and Bruno and you've got Casemiro in defence. who's going to defend? Who's going to chase? Just opened it up. I don't hate ten hag but he's making very very strange decisions consistently now, but not like different decisions he's making the same ones repeatedly it's crazy.
22 Apr 2024 09:14:21
So, let's put some perspective on this, you don't have to like the tactics, you don't have to like the manager but if you are going to put the blame solely on ETH then let's look at what his tactics have done, 1-0 lead in the 96th Minute v Brentford, 3-2 lead from 2-0 down in the 97th minute v Chelsea, 2-1 lead v liverpool into the 84th minute, 3-0 lead in an FA Cup semi final in the 70th minute. Yet, Red Man believes that because he took of a 19 year old academy player who doesn't yet have 2 full season under his belt, Onana, international footballer who's played in a champions league final, Maguire, international footballer who played in a Euro 2020 final, Casemiro, international footballer, 5 x champions league winner, Eriksen, Fernandes, Rashford, all international footballers have all bricked it during these games they couldn't see out the result?
ETH has made many mistakes, he may not have the team playing the way we all want but if these players can not professionally see out games when they have been leading, there's a bigger issue than ETH.
22 Apr 2024 09:42:26
Shappy
Come on it was obvious why ETH took Garnacho off yesterday and it was not to have his minutes managed. It was clearly ETH exercising his authority. Pathetic. Would not surprise me to see Garnacho unsettled if the manager stays. The players will look at the manager allowing Rashford to swan around and will not have any faith in his decisions. Garnacho is one who does put effort in and does run, it’s numbing to watch our manager trying to assert himself on to a 19 year old who to date has given his all on the pitch. Ten Hag has to be booted out even if he wins the cup.
22 Apr 2024 09:56:57
I don’t think anyone is trying to take away from the players Ports.
The players deserve criticism. However, we are never set up to really control a game. We constantly look for transitions. The midfield gets vacated.
In the games listed above- Brentford was a disgrace. 1-0 lead had nothing to do with tactics. We should’ve been 5 down. Liverpool game the same, but he made subs to invite pressure in an attempt to see it out. Chelsea game, we did the same, should’ve conceded 5/ 6 again. We’ve rode our luck and should be much further down the table.
Maybe the players should ignore the plan and just change up to see the game out their way? I don’t think these players have downed tools this season. They’re working and a lot of them are running themselves into the ground every week.
22 Apr 2024 10:06:17
Players get injured in training and it’s the managers fault.
Players get brought off for a rest at 3-0 / 3-1 and it’s the managers fault.
If Mainoo or Garnacho would’ve stayed on and picked up an injury, and been out for 4 weeks, you can bet your bottom dollar the dinosaur double act would be moaning and blaming the manager for that as well.
22 Apr 2024 10:46:19
No offence, but those players brought on, with all due respect to Coventry who were fantastic, should have been more than good enough to see out the last 20 minutes. He brought off 2 kids who've played a lot of minutes, probably believing that at 3-0 and 3-1, the players at his disposal were enough to see the game out, and they should have been.
I deal with the hindsight committee in work every morning. It's a wonderful quality to possess. Talk of 'making a point' or 'punishment' for Garnacho are way off the mark in my opinion.
22 Apr 2024 11:06:26
Nou
Leaving Rashford on. What message did that send to the team?
22 Apr 2024 12:17:53
They're all international level, experienced EPL players, Red Man. They should be professional and do what they're paid very well to do.
22 Apr 2024 13:44:26
Nou
Yes but they are human and being demotivated by what is being done.
22 Apr 2024 16:52:47
Red man, I think it is a case of you seeing what you want to see and not what is there.
You say it was "obvious" why he took Garnacho off yesterday, yet he's subbed him many times before the social media post.
I suppose its "obvious" that EtH has issues with Mainoo as well as he subbed him off.
Maybe he did sub him off to make a point, yet historically EtH has made a point with players by dropping them entirely or removing them from the squad. Like he did with Garnacho last season when he was late during pre-season, or with Rashford when he was late, or by removing Sancho from the squad entirely when he refused to apologise after his social media posts.
So you'd assume that if EtH wanted to prove a point he'd have dropped Garnacho entirely, like he has in the past.
EtH is strict, yet he's also been quick to forgive. If you apologise for your transgression it tends to be water under the bridge. The fact Garnacho unliked the posts within hours suggests it was just the emotions of a young man that got away from him. As soon as he cooled down he retracted it. I'd imagine he apologised and as such he was selected for this game.
EtH has consistently subbed off both Garnacho and Mainoo in recent weeks, which tends to suggest its probably more about managing minutes.
Garnacho was subbed off with us 3-0 up and we should have been cruising. As Nou points out above we had more than enough quality and experience to manage the game, players with winning pedigree, huge experience in the game, playing at the highest level.
We shouldn't have needed to score any more, therefore it was a perfect opportunity to give a 19 year old who has started 34 consecutive games a rest. To manage his minutes. To protect him from injury or burn out.
If you want to pick a hole in his subs then I think taking off Mainoo a minute after we conceded the first goal is a far bigger mistake then trying to rest Garnacho. Although to be fair I'd imagine that decision was made and communicated to the BEFORE they scored. Personally though I'd still have been tempted to keep Mainoo on for another 5 minutes to just allow things to settle. That said Eriksen coming on for him should have more than enough experience to handle seeing out a two goal advantage for 20 minutes against a championship side.
The bigger issue here is that if senior pro's with UCL winners medals, league titles, domestic cup winners, and experience of playing in international finals need two 19 year olds with less than 18 months experience between them to hold their hands through a game with a Championship side. Well then we might as well sack the entire squad bar Mainoo and Garnacho and start again.
22 Apr 2024 21:04:27
Shappy
I can see exactly what is there. I can see how the heart of the players drops when the manager makes yet another blooper.
Team dynamics are important, members of the team can feel let down when one of the team are a scapegoat or are favoured, or they feel someone isn’t pulling their weight and get away with it. I have seen players say stuff it, stop listening to the manager, because they no longer believe in the direction.
It looks like that, see it don’t see it, it happens. Just because they have medals doesn’t mean they have to believe in the cause, they clearly don’t.