10 Mar 2024 17:42:24
Klopp. A brave and energetic manager with a positive relationship with his squad. Hasn’t been afraid to rely on youth when injuries dictated.
ETH. Cowardly energy sapping manager that constantly frowns. Seems hard to bond with. Would prefer to play a wholly inadequate Lindelof at left back rather than Dalot (and play Ogunneye at right back).
I don’t buy this “the players are to blame”. It’s entirely possible that many of these players are to blame and that ETH is an equally inadequate manager.
10 Mar 2024 18:05:52
Klopp, an established manager at a well run club, who has the full backing of the club hierarchy, has fully shaped the squad, ensured that system of football played at youth level is cohesive with first team, and has announced he is leaving the club.
ETH, a manager in his second season at a disaster of a club, already suspects that the club will be getting rid of him in the summer, inherited a squad put together by multiple managers with very different styles of play, has had limited time to ensure cohesion between youth sides and first team, and is fighting to save his job.
ETH has made mistakes, big ones. He’s difficult to get on with, that’s obvious. He’ll most likely be gone in the summer. But comparing his situation to Klopp’s displays a staggering lack of understanding of modern coaching. Last three managers have raised questions about players’ attitudes. We see it every week. Players pick and choose when they’ll put in effort.
In today’s game every City and Liverpool player was committed to pressing the opposition when not in possession. If United players are refusing to put in the hard yards because the manager is grumpy, that then that tells us everything we need to know about this squad.
10 Mar 2024 18:48:33
Silly comment. Ole had no issues getting on with players and wasn't great. For that matter SAF was hardly big pals with his players. Different coaches have different approaches. Our issue is that outside of a handful of players that have been injured most of the year, our squad is full of players that probably wouldn't get into any other squad in the top half.
I, for one, would like ETH to get another season where he actually has a proper structure around him.
10 Mar 2024 18:49:10
How many more seasons until we learn that half the team that failed with Ole might not be good enough to play title challenging football? If we agree the players might not be good enough, why not try that first?
I suspect that ineos do not want, or are not able to sell off the players from this team that are holding us back. So we will not be much better next season either. It is a long road back, and linger jf we fail to realise where we are.
10 Mar 2024 18:51:45
@danny when did I compare situations? I compared the person. Your post shows a staggering lack of ability to read.
10 Mar 2024 19:33:25
When Klopp took over Liverpool our manager was LvG, he was ripping apart the remains on SAF's team.
Since then, we have hired and fired Mourinho, Ole, and Rangnick.
As well as hiring EtH.
This squad has had players bought for LvG, Jose, Ole and EtH in the same time period that Liverpool having been buying players for Klopp. Building a side to suit Klopp, developing an academy to prepare players to play for Klopp.
Selling players who don't suit Klopp, signing players who do. Years and years of coaching to fine tune the style of play and make it second nature to the players.
The two situations are not remotely similar unless you are comparing Klopp's second season at Liverpool to United's season this year.
10 Mar 2024 19:36:25
What about the squad Klopp took over Danny mate? Because it seems like only our managers have excuses .
He took Liverpool in worst situation than we are and in two weeks they played at Spurs . They were the only team that outrun Tottenham that year . From the first year the patterns an style was there . Pep took a team who was fifth in possession the previous year and made them first . Every top manager has a clear style that is clear for us to see from the start, and that has nothing to do with players.
10 Mar 2024 19:44:38
Very good post BRD.
Liverpool played with a reserve keeper. A right footed cb at left back.
2 academy graduates.
Top scorer not fit to start
6 of starting 11 not with klopp more than 18 months
1 of preferred back 5 available.
Brave looking to win.
Watching that game and the spurs game just shows how badly we are prepared and coached.
10 Mar 2024 20:40:08
Forget talent, forget ability, the commitment, energy, intensity, hunger and desire on display this afternoon at Anfield is something we’ve not seen at Old Trafford for over a decade.
Our players are overpaid, egotistical, blame shifters that refuse to take responsibility or accept any accountability.
At the first sign of trouble the excuses are leaked to the press as the blame shifters hide behind what ever excuse they can muster.
Normally it’s the manager!
These players must be rooted out and sold, if they won’t follow instructions or tactics it’s time they were called out.
Every manager has attempted to appease them, it works for a while but never lasts. These players will get anyone the sack.
Is a new manager really going to improve the likes of Maguire, Lindelof, Rashford, Mctominay, Sancho, Martial et al no chance!
10 Mar 2024 20:42:40
Plus the 3 guys in midfield 2 are there 9 months 1 there 3 months. Look like they've played together for years. Klopp getting the best out of them.
The speed and fitness of the players is light years ahead of our players.
10 Mar 2024 20:43:25
You're right there mainoo. Always excuses for this club. Managers have come in to other clubs and made some progress. Near 2 seasons under ETH and I don't see where he is going and I don't buy the injury excuse as a fully fit squad is still rubbish. Two games today and both were more entertaining than anything I have seen under eth since he got the job. It may not be all his fault but he's scared to fail and in turn the players play like they too are scared.
10 Mar 2024 20:59:02
Manioo, the big difference is club structure.
At Liverpool and City they had professional structures in place with people who know what they are doing. They identified the manager they believed could take the club forward in the direction they had decided. These managers had the full backing of the club, and the players were left in no doubt that they could either get on board or they’d be out the door. Pep and Klopp are top class coaches. But their success is underpinned by well run clubs pulling in the same direction.
The contrast at United is that it is a poorly run club with inexperienced people in charge. The players have seen that if they don’t perform, the manager goes and they stay. Happened with Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole and now with ETH. Up until the League Cup win, ETH seemed to be making progress with the team. He took a hard line and the players that didn’t get on board were left behind. For me this highlights that he had the club’s backing and players felt like they had to perform.
Since then the uncertainty surrounding the potential sale weakened ETH’s position and player performances have gradually gotten worse. There’s a visible lack of effort from some players and a lack of confidence all over. The players realise that ETH’s position is under threat and see another opportunity to throw another manager under the bus.
Personally, I think that the new owners want a fresh start and have their own ideas about the type of person they want as a head coach. ETH is a deadman walking. He has made big mistakes in the transfer market and, like every manager when they fear the sack, he’s becoming more and more risk averse. But I don’t think anyone who has been watching United for the last decade can honestly think that this squad is not a bigger problem than the manager.
10 Mar 2024 21:08:10
It's all ANOTHER managers fault ?.
10 Mar 2024 21:17:35
Klopp has a clear pattern, way of playing, coaches the team to that, the Liverpool fans knew what he would do. Also you can see the bond he has with all his players.
It isn’t about getting on with players, but it is about getting them to play for you. ETH is reported as tough to get on with, but it depends what that means. His utterings about Antony being unplayable, continuing to play Rashford regardless, allowing Bruno to behave the way he does, to give the ball away, yet be first choice no matter what, will not be lost on the other players.
It’s not just Klopp though is it, Pep implemented a style they knew was coming, Postecoglu at Spurs.
We sit here saying give them 5 years, every one of them yet none of us know if that will be successful, we just think because SAF was, it will work for ETH.
I think ETH needs to show some coaching skills, coordinated team play, stop talking nonsense about Antony, wake up about Bruno and Rashford, play some decent football, sell his plan to those in charge fast because, that yesterday was very poor, he looks on borrowed time.
10 Mar 2024 21:19:51
Comparing Liverpool and klopp to us and ETH is laughable!
10 Mar 2024 21:22:23
Tumble, liverpool brought in 3 or 4 top players to rebuild the 3 midfield positions. They moved on the older and less skilled players to build a team fit to challenge for the title. A year ago they moved on the aging players that had been good, but would not take them forward any further.
Mane, bobby, hendo and co all left and new fresh players were brought in for the managers style.
We still have Martial, steeling 250k a week. Mctominay and McGuire were identified as players to move on so that EtH could build such a squad. But we failed to move them on.
We have also made rashford a brand, we have sancho and Greenwood who for different reasons are playable and can't be sold.
When barrada and dir football are in place I suspect that we will slowly see these mistakes dealt with. But no doubt it has been a big mess caused by the club and not EtH. Yes, eth want anthony and he has not yet been able to make the step up, but plenty of managers including Pep, klopp and arteta have made expensive mistakes signing players.
We are a patched up patchwork midtable team and 6th is about right for where we sit. If we had a full strength team all year I suspect we would be 4th. Still amazes me how little media attention is paid to Chelsea and Newcastle, almost like the media has an agenda against utd ?.
10 Mar 2024 21:36:45
Very few weeks we are not fielding 8, 9 or 10 internationals.
In todays game given 6 months with either coach
Switch elliot for garnacho
Rashford for Alves
Casimero for endo or
Mainoo for endo
Varane for x (sorry I forget young Liverpool cb name)
Dalot for (Bradley who was great) .
Rasmus for nunez
Shaw for aki.
Given 6 months with either pep or klopp those players would fit in and in most cases not improve but would fit in seamlessly into those teams imo.
Before anyone gets excited I'm not saying we have better players but that any of those players switched they would look much better under those coaches.
We see it at international level on occasions.
It's not all eth's fault but we have good players he is not improving and not getting the best out of.
No matter who is injured or fit its pretty dull and miles off the energy levels and pace of play that entertains.
We do not look remotely like a team that has any sort of identity, and if there is one I certainly don't recognise or identify with it.
10 Mar 2024 22:20:02
Not a good post at all Ken, BRD ?♂️
Repetitive, uneducated, ironic nonsense is what I would call it.
Klopp is a great manager at a huge club who have (for the most part) largely backed him.
We’ve been here before, several times in the past 10 years. Our fans come across as incredibly spoilt with a sense of entitlement. The most moronic of the bunch seem to think that our manager should be some sort of miracle worker who can get a 36 year old Johnny Evans, along with a squad of players who the same people slate every single day, challenging for the title. The same people (alt accounts n’all) are unable to see their own irony, going on and on and on about it every single day.
ETH did unbelievably well in his first season. Taking us from 6th, to a league cup win, an FA cup final, a European semi final, and champions league football. Not one person on here predicted that would happen after ETH took over from Rangnick.
And now, yet another manager is struggling in his 2nd season, one that has been riddled with off field controversy and long-term injuries to key players, and once again we have the same people going on (and on and on and on) about it.
11 Mar 2024 00:08:00
Totally agree Wazza, It does seem that that there are those who only seem to have a sense of purpose from endlessly repeating the same old thing regardless of it's truth or otherwise.
ETH may well have a direct way of dealing with the players (fully deserved for most of them) but let's not forget when he was hired he was told restoring discipline and standards was a priority.
He also asked the question, what happens when a bad spell of form follows improvement, is that going to result in the sack? He seemingly was assured of support. Let's not forget the major issues he has had to deal with since arrival have been inherited from previous regimes.
The injury factors are also very relevant as in particular we have suffered more in defence than anywhere else. Yesterday was the sixth time Varane and Evans started together and that is the highest number of starts for any partnership this season. Add to that the issue with full backs, how many time has Shaw played? and this tells a major story as to to why inconsistency has been such an issue.
11 Mar 2024 00:49:03
The guy in CM for Liverpool was recommended to us 2 years ago by Rangnick, as per Ed002. Szob looks a player but we decided Ralf had no idea what he was doing and ignored him.
11 Mar 2024 01:13:01
Expect it all to be fixed within 18 mi this, it really is incredible. This is a total rebuild. Any steps we take to try and patch up a leaky ship will only delay how long until we are successful. Liverpool only got back after truely realizing that they needed to fully commit to rebuild. Last piece was coutinho. He was a good player, but not what klopp needed.
We have 2 major problems.
The defenders can't play high line and squeeze up the pitch. This is creating huge gaps.
Bruno and rashford can't play a possession based attack. They are better suited to a deep lying teM that play in the break. the ga. e of bottom half clubs.
Until we fix this we will not play a style of play that can compete, unless we park the bud and hit on the break. And ole got slaughtered for doing that.
We are what we are. Tine to turn the page.
11 Mar 2024 05:07:17
This thread just takes the cake and shows a lack of understanding to the amount of work that Liverpool (and Klopp) put in to make the team into what it is today. It was not an overnight process and required support and vision from the people above. We have revamped Anfield, built a new state of the art training facility where the youth team and the first team trains at, and have supported the manager through whatever process he saw fit. Everyone involved was working towards a common goal and had a shared vision.
The people at your club feels like they are either protecting or furthering their own interest rather than that of the club. It just feels like multiple people pulling in different directions instead of everyone working towards a common vision of where the club should be at. It boggles my mind that Martial, a player bought by LVG, is still somehow at the club despite all managers after deeming him surplus to requirements. Last summer, we saw the same thing happening to Maguire and Mctominay as well. Players that the manager wants rid of but is unable. Compare this to Klopp who had the support of the entire club to tear the whole team apart and rebuild it as he saw fit.
I'm not saying that EtH is a good manager nor that he should stay. But the culture around your club now is toxic to say the least and if that is not changed, no manager that comes in would be able to succeed.
11 Mar 2024 07:37:55
I have no intention of becoming involved in a conversation with people who cannot see that this group of players, in the main, are a bunch of overpaid whining kids who are to blame for the sacking of several managers. Add that to the incompetent hierarchy and where to direct blame becomes obvious.
11 Mar 2024 08:33:35
Agree with many of the comments above that basically provides a true picture of the status of the team and structure over the past decade at MU.
Unfortunately one major issue that has limited squad revamp after so many changes in managers and coaching staff is salaries compared to other teams.
MU even have to subsidize salaries if the player goes out on loan!
Unlike Arsenal, Man City, Liverpool it’s much more difficult to move failed players on because of the stupid high salaries and long contracts MU have handed out to players.
How many of us would move to another company for half the salary if you have a long term contract especially if you are at the end of your career?
Obviously this problem has been caused by the structure behind the manager and some poor selection of players transferred in.
Let’s have patience and hope the new structure over the next few seasons will sort this issue even if means buying some contracts to clear the decks.
11 Mar 2024 08:53:27
The only comparison we can use between ourselves and Liverpool/ the top 3 teams is as a barometer for how far we need to go to compete consistently.
The problem we have is top to bottom with everyone being part of the problem, the question will be how many will be allowed to be part of the solution.
Owners - Awful leadership for the entire time. Hopefully we are seeing a change in this whether the Glazers remain or not. This will take time.
Manager - attempting to set a culture and clearing out problem players. Unfortunately seems to be hard to get on with and has not evolved the play as we had expected.
Players - injuries all over the place, players brought in from multiple managers and playing styles, attitude problems virtually across the board. Some signs of promise but needs a massive overhaul and will take time.
Fans - We are not innocent in all of this. We can be impatient, as has been said on here many times we can be toxic. However, what a fan group if we can see progression and a real pathway.
Lets hope we are on the path to enjoyable football, a playing identity and ultimately success.