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09 Dec 2020 11:46:56
Phil Jones links to Newcastle surface again. Something went so badly wrong with this guy. A major lesson to be learnt by the club as oozed potential. Now, the more pressing question is how much better than Jones is Maguire? No joke. The gap is not as big as we'd like or hope.

BadRedDevil

1.) 09 Dec 2020 13:03:02
The gap is huge, one is on the pitch training and playing, the other is on the treatment table. His injuries ruined any chance he had, just never got a good full season.


2.) 09 Dec 2020 13:03:20
I've always called Maguire the fully fit version of Phil Jones. Maguire is just as calamitous as Jones.

The question is, does OGS have the balls to drop his underperformers.


3.) 09 Dec 2020 13:04:06
If I remember correctly we tried to sign Jones that same season you did and when that didn't work we went with Henderson. Seemed a huge mistake @ the time.


4.) 09 Dec 2020 13:24:57
Mad Hatter, doesn’t seem so. It mystifies me how Tuanzebe has not featured more after his performance away to PSG. He made Mbappe look ordinary and Lindelof better. Price tags matter at United. Only conclusion that can be drawn.


5.) 09 Dec 2020 17:21:55
Why is Jones anything to do with Henderson? Both different positions.


6.) 10 Dec 2020 08:28:42
Not sure Maguire is an £80m upgrade on Smalling though for example.


7.) 10 Dec 2020 15:04:40
BRD,

I agree with you. i'd quite like to see how a Bailly and Tuanzebe partnership would work. The problem is players come back from injuries and don't get game time for ages. Then they get thrown in at the deep end and get slated for notnpkaying well, when they haven't played enough games to be match sharp. I remember when OGS put Bailly at RB against Barcelona. He hadn't played any football prior to then as he had been injured.


 

 

 

BadRedDevil's banter posts with other poster's replies to BadRedDevil's banter posts

 

07 Aug 2022 21:20:19
I can only hope that EtH played McFred to demonstrate to the Glazers that De Jong or similar is a must have! Utterly woeful.

BadRedDevil

1.) 07 Aug 2022 21:38:17
Joel spent the afternoon asking eveyone why the ball was round and not oval.


 

 

01 Jul 2022 23:02:22
45 year United fan, but for last few years a Posh season ticket holder. Simply had enough of Glazers so stopped going. Anyhow. Point is United’s scouts need to be seriously considering Ronnie Edwards at Posh. He’s a class act and future England CB.

BadRedDevil

1.) 02 Jul 2022 07:54:27
On Talksport yesterday saying Posh had got some of the best young prospects around- didn't catch their names.


2.) 02 Jul 2022 12:09:04
Posh have always invested in youth. Their academy has just been awarded a level-2 status.


3.) 02 Jul 2022 14:54:21
How many ex posh graduates have gone on to play for England or the top epl teams again?


4.) 02 Jul 2022 15:14:59
What’s your point Ken? I commented about one player who it is known Darren Ferguson suggested the scouts look at. Just chit-chat. I didn’t say any number have played for England, won the world-cup or solved climate change. Maybe take your trolling to Twitter. You’ll have more fun in there.


5.) 02 Jul 2022 22:19:40
I didn't make a point I asked you a couple of simple questions.


 

 

24 Mar 2022 06:41:50
Understandably lots of debate about the next manager. There seems to be very little point trying to predict what the United decision makers will do. I’d have more faith were it simply down to Rangnick to decide, but it clearly isn’t.

As such maybe we should ask ourselves who would City or Liverpool be looking at now if either Klopp or Pep left? Would it be Poch or Simeone? I have my doubts. However, Simeone to be fair is a tremendous man manager and tactician. Yes there is baggage, but he’s a born winner with a work ethic we can only envy. He would deserve consideration. I think his football is better than given credit for. Would it be Nagalelsmann, possibly, if they could prize him out. Arterta would get mention based on progress, especially at City, but they may feel he needs more time. Liverpool similarly may have plumped for Gerrard, but again may have waited.

There are other candidates such as Lopetegui, but, my gut believes they would both be very interested in ETH. They both have the benefit of a far better recruitment process managed by competent staff. ETH also fits their style of play. Neither club have United’s track record for bringing through youth, but would undoubtedly be attracted to his willingness to support that. Liverpool have a number of youngsters that look very good, so they may be more invested in him.

It seems to me that if they were both looking at the same time that Poch wouldn’t be made manager of either club. He doesn’t appear to have the strength of character or touch-line charisma that Pep and Klopp do. He also seems to be on a downward curve. ETH however is on an upward curve and projects positivity and a clear style of play. We haven’t seen that in the dugout for many years.

One of the two would take him on. Both may try. I’m certain neither would put in an interim manager for such a long period of time, but even if they did they have a support structure to help that person.

So, on the basis ETH would end up at City or Liverpool, two very well run clubs, it seems fair to assume we’ll be welcoming Poch in the not too distant future. We get to admire ETH’s work from a short drive away. Seems a shame to me. Poch suggests a relatively safe bet for top four yet a lack of ambition for opening the trophy cabinet doors again. ETH is a visionary approach. Higher risk maybe. Yes, no EPL experience, but neither did Sir Alex, Tuchel, Pep or Klopp! That argument or concern shows a lack of poor judgement by the decision makers. ETH does need more boardroom support, and the top-to-bottom application of a set coaching approach and footballing philosophy to all squads, but Rangnick can achieve that. ETH just seems to me to be the right choice. It would be the first time I’ve experienced that feeling since Sir Alex left.

So… probably see you soon Poch. Sigh.

BadRedDevil

1.) 24 Mar 2022 07:46:28
I have that feeling that the directors just want poch and always have. Ten hag interview for PR and it will go all wrong as he'll demand standards. glazers freak out and hire poch.


2.) 24 Mar 2022 09:44:32
I fully get what you're saying. I think EtH would be under consideration for City, not so sure he would be for Liverpool. Apparently they may look at Pep Lijnders if/ when Klopp leaves.

However, there is some clear parallels between hiring the right manager and signing the right players.

By that I mean not every player is the right fit for every club. Take Di Maria for example, he was excellent at Benfica and Real Madrid, he didn't suit us or the EPL but was excellent again at PSG.

Or Veron who was one of the best midfielders in the world when he signed for us. But again he didn't quite suit the club or the league.

Or Forlan who went on to become the European golden boot winner after leaving United.

Sometimes a great player just doesn't suit a club. Maybe it's the style of play, the league, the country and culture or just the club ethos. That doesn't mean they aren't excellent at what they do, it just doesn't work everywhere.

Managers are much the same, a great manager for one club might not be as good somewhere else. Maybe their style of play doesn't suit the club, or the squad of players at that club. Maybe they can't adapt to the league or the country, maybe how they work best is different to the structure at that club, or they don't work well with key people at the club.

Sir Alex used to say to his young coaches and assistant managers to not pick a club but to pick a chairman/ chief executive when looking at moving into management. As he understood how key that relationship is for a manager to be a success. I wonder if he'd have advised any of them to pick Woodward? ?

EtH might be the better coach overall, but it's possible that Pochettino might be a better fit for our club and where we are right now.

If clubs didn't hire managers who had previously been sacked/ failed at other clubs then soon there would be no managers left to hire.

Pochettino hasn't worked out well at PSG. In hindsight it's not an ideal club for the type of manager he is.

Some managers like Mourinho, Ancelotti, Zidane and Conte are guys who do best coming in to a successful squad of players who need a short sharp shock and a push to get the most out of them. They work best with player in or near their peaks.

The other type of managers are project managers, they are the guys who want to build something, they look slightly more long term. They prefer younger players who are mouldable and who they can develop. Pochettino is definitely in the latter category yet PSG had a squad that really needed a manager from the former category.

We don't have a squad of players near or at their peak who just need a quick kick up the arse to get back to winning ways.

We have a mismashed squad, with several younger players that needs turning over and developing over the next few years. We need a project type manager and not a quick turn around manager.

I think given what we need and his experience Pochettino would be a good choice for our club. Whether he's the BEST choice is debatable and very much down to personal opinion.


3.) 24 Mar 2022 10:06:20
If Poch can't control one bunch of misfits at PSG why do you think he can at MU. IMO it's another disaster waiting to happen.


4.) 24 Mar 2022 10:18:14
Thanks BadRedDevil for echoing my thoughts.

After a long argument with a friend over a couple of drinks I asked him honestly who does he think City or Bayern Munich will pick between MP and ETH.

He said ETH twice.

I gulped down my remaining drink and left without saying a word more.

Like I said to Ken in another discussion, if we get Poch, rest assured that one day we'll look at ETH across the road and wish we did something else.


5.) 24 Mar 2022 10:47:38
Poch suggests Sir Alex is getting another pick.


6.) 24 Mar 2022 10:52:56
Otts, a manager can only control the players if they have absolute power, or at least will be backed absolutely by the club.

Do you think Sir Alex Ferguson would have been able to control the players if when he said I want Ince, Stam, Beckham etc sold and they club said no we are keeping them?

If the club undermines the manager and sides with the players then that manager will never have any control.

Our club has repeatedly undermined out managers, as such they have all lost the dressing room and been unable to control the players.

Jose has been a strong disciplinarian throughout his career and he couldn't control the dressing room.

We could hire Pochettino or Simeone or Conte or EtH and if the first time the manager had any trouble the club backs the players then it doesn't matter who the manager is they will no longer have control.

I think many United fans only have memories of Sir Alex and think that is how ever manager should manage.

The truth is that a football manager isn't a dictator but is a middle manager with people above him telling him what they want him to do.

No manager will walk through the door and dictate to the board what will happen. Any fans waiting for a white knight manager to come charging into the club on his noble steed to put the Glazers and the board in their place is living in a fantasy land.

Some managers are tougher than others, but until our club backs them absolutely then they will have little to no power over the players.


7.) 24 Mar 2022 11:06:36
Spot on Shappy, i completely agree with that.
Players seem to have the control today.


8.) 24 Mar 2022 13:20:46
Yaz Rodgers is more likely to end up at city than eth.
He has also won more and had epl experience.


9.) 24 Mar 2022 14:12:46
Remind me not to go for a pint with you Yaz, sounds great craic ?.


10.) 24 Mar 2022 22:28:09
I never understand the hype with Poch. He's a good manager but has not exactly been a winning manager. He seems to have screwed up every time he had to win.
Ten Hag is the man, get him in.


11.) 24 Mar 2022 22:36:25
Weekdays he won AA that poch hadn't.
A title in a 1 horse race. Eth hasn't won two Dutch titles with ajax which he should have won.


12.) 25 Mar 2022 06:41:17
Ken, EtH didn't win the league in his first season after he took over at the end of December with Ajax in second place 5 points off of PSV. At the end of the season he had closed the gap to 4 points. As a half season it wasn't awful.

The only other year he didn't win the title with Ajax was 2019/ 20 due to the season be suspended and no winner being announced due to C.V. At that time Ajax were top of the league and on course for EtH to win his third straight title in a row.

So in 4 and a half seasons at Ajax he will have won 3 titles (come the end of this season) . Would have likely won the title in the season where no winner was declared (was top at the time) . While in the half season he took over he closed the gap between Ajax and the team that was ahead before he took over.

It's about as comprehensive a domination of a league as you could expect. Considering in the three seasons prior to him taking over Feyenoord won a title and PSV won the other two. PSV also won the title in his first season (for which he was manager for half) . Meaning before he won his first title Ajax hadn't been champions in nearly 5 years.

Which highlights just being the biggest and wealthiest team doesn't guarantee you titles. He along with VDS and Overmars turned things around and made Ajax dominant again. I won't give him all the credit, as the club did improve how it was run under VDS and Overmars which definitely contributed to their recent success.

He's a very good manager and rightly rated very highly. That said Pochettino at Ajax during that time with that structure would have likely won as many titles at EtH.

His achievements with Southampton and Spurs are regularly underappreciated amoungst United fans. While he's managed about par with PSG all things considered. Again when he took over PSG just over a year ago it was January and the team was already trailing the eventual winners by a couple of points.

When you're behind you are relying on the team in front to drop more points than you. If they don't then there isn't much you can do.

Pochettino is an equally good option to EtH, maybe slightly better suited due to the make up of our current squad and his previous EPL experience. EtH in my opinion is the better coach and tactician, but has never managed a top flight side outside of the Eredivisie.

I'd be happy and support either if they become our manager.


 

 

09 Mar 2022 09:09:47
So media has us believe there is a teacher’s per. I’m not sure who the teacher is, yet alone the pet. I feel so sorry for Rangnick. Has there ever been a football club in more disarray then United right now. Newcastle, Leeds and Derby have all experienced tough times, and we’ve seen clubs go bust, but we seem to be consistently raising the bar on levels of complete and utter incompetence on a day-day basis. It’s just embarrassing.

BadRedDevil

1.) 09 Mar 2022 09:33:04
The list of who it can be must be small as he's dropped/ rotated pretty much every player at some point.

I expect this "teacher's pet" line has come from a player who isn't playing as much as they would like and rather than look at themselves and what they are doing and what they could do better they find it easier to say they aren't playing because another player is the managers favourite.

It's just further proof that we have a bunch of flakes at the club.


2.) 09 Mar 2022 11:05:26
Absolutely Shappy. Until the Glazers grow a pair and publicly back a manager - and that means giving him complete freedom to pick/ drop/ sell - this will never change. I'm old enough to remember the Sexton period pretty well. This feels worse.


3.) 09 Mar 2022 13:09:54
im hoping the way there are going with the structure change gives the manager more of a say.

the manager, dof and td should all work together.

when you undermine the manager i don't see the point in him being there.


4.) 09 Mar 2022 13:13:31
I like RR. I think another season with him in charge and being able to implement his ideas, including the structure of the club, would be very beneficial.

It's clear to see that this current squad are nothing more than a bunch of pansies who clearly like to throw their toys out of the pram.

Crucially, the next manager needs to be fully backed by the club and allowed to stamp his authority. If it means it takes a few years to get back to challenging for the league, then so be it. It is better to get things right than constantly getting it wrong.


5.) 09 Mar 2022 16:46:55
MH, I like Ralf as well. He speaks well and comes across like he really knows his stuff. I like his honesty too. The team has improved under him, but it's clear there are real limitations within the squad.

That said I'd rather we hire another manager this summer (as long as it's the right one) as in my opinion Rangnick is a very good coach, but a great director of football. I think he can do more for the team and the club from a role above the manager than he can from the managers position.

The only way I'd be fully happy for him to stay longer as manager is if the club had agreed a deal with Hansi Flick to take over once his time with Germany at the world cup had finished.

For me Hansi Flick is the ideal candidate, plays good football, develops players, used to a big club and big ego's and had success (winning treble with Bayern) .

The problem is he wouldn't leave the Germany job before the world cup. Probably not afterwards either unless Germany tank badly.


 

 

01 Mar 2022 08:20:08
For all of the conversation around should it be Pochettino or should it be ten Hag I’m more than happy to know my colours to the Rangnick mast.

I think he’s doing a superb job and is probably the best fit as a United manager we’ve had for a long time. I like his philosophy and especially his handling of the players. This will solidify yet further if Maguire is dropped again, especially against Atletico.

Judging his ability is based on the limitations of the current squad could turn out to be a huge mistake. Make him permanent in the summer.

BadRedDevil

1.) 01 Mar 2022 08:35:54
well ten hag has got another season at ajax before his contract is up, my preference would be to allow ralf to have another season to do what needs to be done with incomings and outgoings and try and agree a deal in principle to get ten hag next summer,

i don't mind poch but i'm leaning towards ten hag over poch and if it means ralf gets a full season before moving into his other role, i think this would be the better option.


2.) 01 Mar 2022 09:10:45
It might require just that. Another season of RR might be perfect. There is no need to rush an appointment for the sake of appointing a new manager.


The main co cern is Recruitment. The club needs to get everything right.


3.) 01 Mar 2022 09:18:23
We play more like a team under Rangnick although there are glaring holes in the squad.
Some of the attacking play is good to watch.
The finishing has let us down recently, else we would have had more points. (Cavani and Greenwood situation hasn't helped either. )

With better recruitment, we can really kick on.
He has dropped under-performing players like Fred, Maguire, AWB, Rashford. So no more favoritism unlike Ole.

The most important aspect is that he should be given strong control to model the structure and player recruitment.


4.) 01 Mar 2022 10:02:51
I think Rangnick has done a great job given the circumstances.

Should he be given the job long term? I don't know. I mean half the problems he is facing are because he isn't a long term appointment. Yet would a year long contract really be enough to solve those issues.

Would he want the job on a short term (1 year) basis?

As for Pochettino and EtH, I'm a little on the fence with either of them. I see many positives with both managers, however they both have one or two aspects about them that concern me.

Both bring a good style of play, while developing of young players.

Two of the biggest things I want from a manager at our club.

However, EtH has never managed at a club with our terrible structure, he has excelled with the strong guidance and helping hand of a club that supports him and enables him to focus on working with and training the first team squad. Would the role at our club and the lack of support be overwhelming for him? Possibly. Also I'm not so sure our squad is well suited for the vertical possession style he likes to play, certainly in the midfield, forward areas and at full back.

Pochettino on the other hand has EPL experience and has experience of managing clubs with different structures and set ups. Yet, he is yet to win anything of note despite all his good work. His team's have often seemed mentality fragile when the chance to win something is in grasp. Although he is only now at a club with any sort of history of winning things. Spurs have been choke artists since they were formed. Our squad seems better suited to Pochettino, with him probably having to make less changes to enable him to play his style.

I think Pochettino is the more known quantity amoungst United fans, we have seen him and his team's first hand on many occasions both at Southampton and Spurs. While EtH is the sexy foreigner, a bit of a mystery but we've heard lots of good things. As such I think we are more aware of Pochettino's flaws than we are of EtH's.

Personally I think I'd just have Pochettino ahead by a whisker. He knows the league, is better suited to our squad and our structure, while has also shown a real interest in taking the job in the past.

The reality is though whoever gets the job will have flaws, Sir Alex had flaws, all managers do. The important thing is to support the manager even if they aren't our personal choice, and not look to try and tear him down at every opportunity just because the club didn't hire our favourite.


5.) 01 Mar 2022 10:16:31
I think with someone like Rangnick, you need to assess where his strengths are better suited. I personally think he is one of the best in the business at overseeing a football operation, and I think we need him there.

He has done a good job, but he is about to have an extremely tough run of games where he will show whether or not he is up to it. I still think he knows who the bluffers are and if he moves upstairs he will be able to help move them on and start building a better group of players.


6.) 01 Mar 2022 11:11:37
Rangnick signed up to steady the ship and move to a consultancy role to help restructure and that’s what he should do. He should be instrumental in picking the next coach, one that follows similar methods and has a similar philosophy and view on football. I wrote on Here in 2013 or 2014 I think it was about an absolute lack to planning and strategy from the top. I’ve turned around a few business’ over my career and the single most important thing is a clear defined strategy with key steps, goals, timelines and reviews that you can use as a blueprint to drive your organisation forward. You then use this to drive your decision making…. For example all future recruitment MUST fit into the direction and strategy the club has decided upon this stops you trying to fit square pegs into round holes on both the managerial and playing side reducing the risk of poor hires. Regular reviews for both staff and the plan enable you to highlight mistakes (in hires and execution) quickly and rectify the situation. Also having this kind of set up makes an organisation robust as succession planning is far easier as you know exactly the kind of player/ coach/ manager/ director you require should you lose one. For me there is one other glaring issue at the club, I work in a niche industry that is highly technical without fail every company I have been brought into has lost sight of what they are and has been run by financial experts with absolutely zero knowledge of the technical industry they find themselves in, the club needs a very very clear separation of the technical side (footballing) and the commercial. The two need to work together but understanding that first and foremost that it’s a footballing club and onfield success drives commercial opportunity.


7.) 01 Mar 2022 11:20:55
i think ralf can do both caolan, sort out the squad and then go above and sort the rest of the issues out.

what we don't need is someone to come in the summer to then give players like martial, maguire, shaw, wan bissaka ETC another chance because they might be good under him.

they have had enough time and worked under enough managers now.

recruitment is key this summer we will see where the club wants to be with what business is conducted in the summer.


8.) 01 Mar 2022 12:38:43
I don't disagree at all that he can do both Bolger. I just think this time he has had has been invaluable and he can provide the next manager with a real clean slate, rather than it being some of the players getting one.


9.) 01 Mar 2022 13:15:57
thats my fear that the new manager comes in and gives everyone a clean slate.


10.) 01 Mar 2022 15:52:35
Bolger, for me it depends on WHY they are getting a clean slate.

Players who have shown poor attitude need to be shown the door immediately without question. If you aren't going to put the work and effort in then don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's the minimum requirement for a top level player. While people marvel at the tactics, style of play and entertainment clubs like City and Liverpool manage under Pep and Klopp it is all built on their players giving 100%.

However, if the player in question is hard working and dedicated I think they should be given a chance under a different manager who will have a different style of play and coaching that might bring the best out of them.

In some cases it might be a long shot, but in truth we can't ship out 18 players this summer. Some will have to stay and for me it has to be the ones with the right attitude over those with potentially more talent.

Hard work beats talent when talent forgets to work hard.

We can bring through or buy talented players with the right attitude. But if they join a group of players who aren't prepared to do the work then they will struggle.


11.) 01 Mar 2022 17:45:59
We have a hard run of games ahead. I can see us not gaining many points but I would be worried that might see fans asking for RR to go. Truth is our first team needs surgery and better players in key areas and I think it's unfair to judge RR based on the team he has inherited.


12.) 01 Mar 2022 20:07:22
I still believe that Simeone should be considered. I would be worried if the club retained RR for a few extra months and went for Southgate, who I think would be a disaster.


13.) 01 Mar 2022 20:46:09
southgate are we wanting to go backwards or progress and challenge

Southgate is worse than ole i couldn't think of anyone worse.


14.) 02 Mar 2022 08:45:02
Praying you get Southgate lol, sorry guys ?.


 

 

 

BadRedDevil's rumour replies

 

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18 Aug 2022 02:34:55
Everything has a price!

BadRedDevil

 

 

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18 Jun 2022 07:16:33
@Eric79 the time to judge is when pre-season starts, not the start of the season. That date is beginning to loom large.

BadRedDevil

 

 

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07 May 2022 19:57:02
Ahem. Jerry Jones.

I think Dallas Cowboys fans would argue very strongly about how owners do get too involved with team matters!

BadRedDevil

 

 

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21 Apr 2022 12:40:08
Does it make any difference if they listen to him? They seem to have done so far.

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20 Apr 2022 13:05:53
Ed002's response is deeply concerning. Scouting is such a critical activity for any football club, especially one whose so-called DNA is built around youth and development of. A bit like Cadburys failing to buy enough cocoa beans!

BadRedDevil

 

 

 

BadRedDevil's banter replies

 

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17 Aug 2022 14:41:20
Yes they are GDS2. Aren’t you?

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02 Jul 2022 15:14:59
What’s your point Ken? I commented about one player who it is known Darren Ferguson suggested the scouts look at. Just chit-chat. I didn’t say any number have played for England, won the world-cup or solved climate change. Maybe take your trolling to Twitter. You’ll have more fun in there.

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02 Jul 2022 12:09:04
Posh have always invested in youth. Their academy has just been awarded a level-2 status.

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18 Jun 2022 07:33:05
Jeez. Chill out. This is a thread that may not age well. I also think it shows disrespect to ETH. There seems to be little to no consideration for what he can do as a coach without being cheque-book-Pep.

In some ways, which I seriously doubt will be the case, it would be interesting to see what he does with the squad as is, including integrating a great crop of youngsters. We’re weeding out the toxicity within the club, which for me is FAR more important than introducing great new signings in to a fractured dressing room. We”ve also got rid of one of the worst managers in the history of the club which has let this happen (Ole, not RR for clarity) .

Fergie didn’t change the club in one window, however he did begin by removing the drinking culture. ETH has to remove the I’m-bigger-than-the-club culture. Doing that in the first window should be progression enough.

Who knows. A bit of optimism might not go amiss. Maybe there’s still a player inside Maguire, Dalot, Martial etc. I’d sooner have a manager that’s capable of turning the current squad around over one who thinks the only solution is to go shopping.

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29 May 2022 21:27:07
If that makes sense to anybody I need help.

BadRedDevil