25 Oct 2021 08:13:45
I've seen a lot from various people saying that ole will leave us in a better state than he found us. REALLY!
Let's look at it, when he came in we were:
7/ 8 in the league
Leaking goals for fun
Playing turgid football
Same formation and tactics regardless of opposition or form
Midfield was atrocious
Pogba was an enigma
Squad full of overpaid players who aren't good enough.
Players and manager not on the same page
Tell me what's changed in his 3 years at the helm?! It's been a waste and as for the great morale he's created, it's going to be non existent too if results continue as they are. its all a myth created by oles mates to give some positivity over what's been a joke of an appointment. He has to go yet he should never have got the job in the first place!
25 Oct 2021 08:35:55
We are just 25% through the season.
We sit 8 points from the lead and 8 points from relegation.
We are behind Brighton and 2 points above Brentford.
Since the 1st games of the season we have concluded more goals than we have scored in all comps.
We have our worst defensive record for 12 years
We are moving backwards
Ole gets credit for improving the squad but his best run of results was with the old players left by Jose he has not matched that since he spent a penny
He has learnt nothing
Its a more disgruntled and unhappy camp than when jose was in charge
More fans are against ole than were ever against jose or lvg
All any football fan wants us hope and pride.
With jose we had hope but little if any pride
Ole brings neither hope nor pride.
A squad player formally revered by the fans but now they walk away from his team they walk away from the ground.
3 years in he has achieved nothing learnt nothing and win nothing.
He has not made 1 positive contribution since one of his goals scoring substitute appearances.
Its time to go ole its time to go fella you are a complete failure.
25 Oct 2021 11:12:00
I don't think ole was a complete failure but the longer this carrys on its undoing any good he might have done. Imagine keeping him and not getting top 4 its back where we started, of course the same could happen with a new manager, and i'm not sure who i would have if i could choose at the moment i think i'd get edwin it to replace woodward and ten hag to replace ole asap.
25 Oct 2021 11:13:34
All managers see a downturn before they get sacked. When people say Ole will leave the squad better than he found it they mean in terms of quality of players available to the manager.
When he took over he had:
DDG, Romero, Joel Pereira, Grant, Valencia, Darmian, TFM, Dalot, Lindelof, Smalling, Jones, Bailly, Rojo, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Young, CBJ, Matic, Pogba, Fred, Herrera, Fellaini, McTominay, Andreas Pereira, Mata, Lingard, Rashford, Lukaku, Martial, Sanchez, and James Wilson.
DDG, Henderson, Heaton, Grant, AWB, Dalot, Laird, Maguire, Varane, Lindelof, Bailly, Tuanzebe, Shaw, Telles, Williams, Pogba, Matic, Fred, McTominay, DvdB, Bruno, Lingard, Mata, Sancho, Amad Diallo, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, Ronaldo, and Cavani.
Now he has:
Romero and Joel Pereira have been replaced with Henderson and Heaton.
Valencia, Young, Darmian, TFM and CBJ have been replaced with AWB, Telles, Laird and Williams.
Smalling and Rojo replaced with Varane and Maguire.
Fellaini and Herrera replaced with Bruno Fernandes and Donny van de Beek.
Sanchez, Lukaku, and Wilson replaced with Sancho, Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood and Amad Diallo.
Would you seriously think any manager would prefer the former group of players over the latter?
25 Oct 2021 11:50:17
And imagine Shappy, Jose finished 2nd with more than 80 points with that "inferior" squad and won a few trophies. Ole has got better players and still can't get one. I heard the trophy seller at the corner of the street turned him away last week because he can't even buy one.
Ole has taken us backwards. Points tally tells us that given that you are so fond of stats.
25 Oct 2021 12:23:36
United Addict, I'm not debating Jose is a better manager than Ole, that is obvious.
Ole has improved the squad and only a fool would try and argue otherwise.
Surely the reason most fans want Ole sacked is because the squad is better than he can get it performing.
I don't think points tallies are a great method of comparison simply because the variables change too much to draw accurate comparisons. The base level does not stay the same. The quality of the opposition, or even the actual opposition changes so much between seasons.
Maybe a couple of the teams that got relegated were teams that tactically had an easier game against and picked up more points against than your nearest rivals. Likewise maybe the teams promoted play a style that poses your more problems. Maybe key rivals were at their peak or in a period of transition. Maybe you or a rival had key players missing for large chunks of the season. Maybe several title rivals all made it far in Europe and as such dropped more points in the league with their squad stretched further, or maybe they got knocked out early and focused on the league and took a greater share of the points. Maybe several mid-table sides made some great signings and closed the gap between them and the top four.
Liverpool lost the title with 97 points, in any other season they would have won the league, so do we give them an extra title that year because they amassed enough points to normally win the league? Or were they just 2nd best that season? Same thing with relegation, some teams have been relegated with 40 points, while others have stayed up with 33. How many points you get does not decide if you are relegated or not, your league position does.
Far too many variables to draw accurate and fair conclusions. All you can say in relative to the other teams in the league we finished 2nd or 5th.
When Ole took over we were spiralling and was on the way down, Ole stabled the ship and then got us to a 3rd then 2nd place finish. But this season form has fallen off a cliff. Ole did well enough for a while and did somethings which will hopefully make things easier for the next manager than they were for Ole when he took over.
25 Oct 2021 13:26:07
But Shappy that's sort of the whole point. The space we were in when Jose was sacked is exactly the same as it is today. We are in free fall at the moment. The anchors have been pulled up and its not steady anymore. The mood that he uplifted, he has managed to pull it down himself.
25 Oct 2021 14:48:26
United Addict I don't normally agree with a lot of what shappy says specially the last few months but unless your blind it is there for everyone to see, I no which squad I would want and it isn't the one Mourinho finished 2nd with.
25 Oct 2021 15:06:26
UA, I wouldn't say the positions are exactly the same between when Jose was sacked and now.
Jose had the most of the squad against him due to how he treated them. Ole it seems had the whole squad on board until extremely successful individuals joined and suggested the club should be doing more. I don't think we have a divided dressing room, I think we have a dressing room that thinks we should be doing better.
I don't think we are in free fall, just drifting aimlessly. It's not a toxic club with infighting. Just a squad at a loss to understand what they need to do to turn things around.
The coaching staff have run out of ideas, I think we looked decent when playing as a counter attacking team. We seem to be able to set ourselves up as the underdogs and cope with that well. It's when we are expected to dictate we struggle. That is why Ole always seems to pull it out the bag when his backs against the wall and he and the team are the underdogs. I also think that is why we have struggled more and become less clear about who we are and how we play as the squad has improved. We now have a side that should be able to go toe to toe with anyone, but we don't have the knowhow to do it. There is an expectation that we should be doing more and that seems to put more pressure on the coaches to play in a way that is outside their comfort zone.
Jose got sacked because he was pulling the walls in on top of him, with the situation becoming more and more toxic the longer it went on.
Ole will need to be sacked simply because he has run out of ideas and doesn't know how to get the best out of a talented squad.