Manchester United banter 92793


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30 Nov 2023 07:55:43
Bedding a new goalkeeper in is never easy. It can take months. Indeed De Gea was woeful at the beginning. Weak on crosses and couldn’t command his area - if indeed he ever did.

I have sympathy for Onana. He’s playing behind a poor defence in a team that on the whole has been poor. We all know goalkeeping errors are spotlighted more because of the impact. Ridiculous to suggest change.

The goalkeeper I saw at Inter last season is still there. The clamour for us to sign him was there. How fickle just because he’s hit some poor form. Class is permanent etc. He needs time and for the team as a unit to improve too. Both will happen. I’ve seen enough to believe he is far from our biggest issue.

Agree9 Disagree0

30 Nov 2023 08:28:36
I have absolutely no sympathy for him. He is a Champions League finalist previously played for top European teams. This isn't about bedding in, this is about sheer ability.

The mistakes aren't due to bedding in, they are simply bad goalkeeping - end of. He is not making up for it with his distribution, which was allegedly the best in the world and I would dare say his pass completion probably isn't much better than De Geas.

The simple point is this - if we kept De Gea we would be in the last 16 of the Champions League.

30 Nov 2023 08:38:35
Onana is a good goalkeeper and has atributes that a lot of goalkeepers do not have. A couple of points though
1. Are we playing the right way to utilise these additional attributes of being a sweeper keeper/ playing out from the back
2. His fundamentals seem flawed. So many times this year he has let in a ball that has been close to him by either making the wrong assumption of where it is going or not having his feet position correct.
The second free kick last night should have been the easier one, the only player making a header was Martial so his assumption should be he will miss it or it will be headed behind. To miss judge that trajectory for me is a problem. he could have even gone with both hands to save it due ro to there actually being less danger.
Hopefully he will come good but needs to be working on the training ground. Whether we see Bayinder at some point if he goes of to the AFCON will be interesting.

30 Nov 2023 09:03:03
To say that last night's keepers' errors had anything to do with playing behind a weak defence is delusional. All three goals were down to poor keeping and cannot be seen as anything else. I am not suggesting we get rid but we need to be realistic about last night.

30 Nov 2023 09:28:28
I do worry about his basics. He got praised by the commentators for a decent save against Everton. But none of them pointed out that he parried it back into the goalmouth area, rather than away from goal, necessitating a follow-up block. There's obviously a decent keeper there, and his distribution when he gets the chance, is far superior to Dave's, but Fergie took Dave out for awhile at the start, and he came back stronger. Onana strikes me as the kind of character who would see being dropped for a few games as a challenge, so might be for the best.

30 Nov 2023 09:39:07
@Fizz. No need to make it personal. I'm not delusional. I'm a realist.

And by the way. It does have an effect. Your entire environment (at home and work) has an impact on your confidence and (peak) performance level. I worked for many years as a performance coach in sport and business having also studied the subject to Masters level. I have a great deal of insight into what impacts performance, both physical and mental. Many performance issues are reduced to the simplest of variables that could never reflect the actual cause/ effect (in this case poor saves) .

Would you let a doctor perform surgery on you if you knew he was going through a tough divorce? Would you expect to get the best from a footballer who is being accused of assault? Where do you draw the line on the influence of external factors?

I'm not trying to manufacture an argument to support Onana. I have no skin in the game. I just have sympathy for his circumstances. Swap him for Ederson at City and you wouldn't spot the difference. Clear example of how environment impacts performance.

30 Nov 2023 09:47:58
LMAO but who is being personal? I responded to your post. You might not agree with me over a single word in that post but it is what it is and I have no need for your CV.
Have a grand day.

30 Nov 2023 09:51:28
The keeper had a bad night but while Scott mctominay is in midfield offering nothing in build up or defence we haven't a sniff.

Bruno makes 2 fouls he's supposed to be the attacking player but he's the one who's had to get back because he knows Scott won't.

Mctominay left amrabat and mainoo on their own time and time again allowed them to get straight in at our defence and tackles were made so we could get organised, mctominay is not offering anywhere near enough going forward for what he's costing us in at the back/ in control of the ball.

The goalkeeper on, first goal he's tried to guess where the shots going I can forgive that one, the second was literally right at him, I know martial was running across it but he has to save it. And for the last one his positioning is awful to get beat at the near post like that. He's shown he can do it but he's making very basic errors and showing that some very basic things are issues let's hope he can fix them and quick.

30 Nov 2023 09:51:51
Errors from direct free kicks can't be put down to the defensive structure, Onana has cost us badly in the champions league.

The playing out from the back struggle is clearly because Martinez and Shaw have been injured, far and away our best technical players which is fair enough in my opinion.

30 Nov 2023 10:09:20
It doesn't take time for a top professional goalkeeper to make that save. Straight at him. I would have save it myself.

30 Nov 2023 10:27:34
He's single-handedly cost us half a dozen points in a group that we should definitely have finished at least second in. We all cried for a revolutionary new GK to play with his feet and whilst he's made a few decent saves he's also dropped more than a share of howlers and hasn't transformed anything just yet. We'll never know the full DdG story but I'm sure we'd be going into next week with a great chance of qualifying with him in goal.
But as it stands we still have a chance. He can only improve.

30 Nov 2023 10:45:36
Sadly a lot of people are easily led by a media narrative.

If you read the press then the only goalkeeper having a poor season is the guy between the sticks for Manchester United. It doesn't matter who that is by the way.

Arsenal's goalkeeping situation is a mess, and one entirely created by Arteta.

It's easy to pick out isolated moments to highlight something, but in doing so you also remove all the context around that situation.

It's like walking into a room as one person explodes and starts tearing into someone else. It might seem unreasonable, or that the person shouting is the aggressor or instigator. But you have no idea what happened before, you have no context.

Football highlights are exactly the same. You are looking at a tiny isolated incident without any context.

Has Onana made mistakes this season? Absolutely. Does that make him a bad keeper? Not really.

Firstly, all players make mistakes. Yet we need to look at the context to get a clearer idea about what is going on.

You could easily such clip up the 4-5 mistakes he has made this season, but that isn't representative of his ability. Imagine if someone did that for you. Just created a montage of every mistake you've made in your career and used that to judge your ability. Completely ignoring the circumstances around why those mistakes happened or all the really good things you've done.

For context around Onana. He currently has the highest save percentage in the EPL this season. He has also faced the 5th highest amount of shots.

What does that tell us? Well it tells us that he is playing behind a very leaky defence that is forcing him into making more saves than he should. Yet he is saving a higher amount of those shots than any other keeper in the league. If we make mistakes 5% of the time, then we will make a mistake once in every 20 times we do something. Therefore, the guy asked to do the task 20 times has once mistakes, whereas the guy asked to do it 100 times makes 5 mistakes. Does that make him worse at his job than the guy who only made the one mistake?

There are several factors as to why our defence is so leaky and Onana being a new keeper is certainly a factor in that. Yet the biggest and most obvious issue is the injuries. We all know that defending is done as a unit, that knowing eachothers game and working together is the key to good defending. Which we also know is pretty much impossible to get in a constantly changing defensive line up. Until we get some consistency in team selection in defence it will be impossible to gain some consistency in performances.

Onana despite facing a huge number of shots (only the keepers at the promoted clubs and Fulham have faced more shots), he has the highest save percentage and the joint most clean sheets in the league. So he clearly isn't a bad shot stopper, in fact he's actually one of the best in the league.

For those saying DDG would have been better, well Onana has a higher save percentage this season than DDG had last season. While if you look at errors leading to a goal, and you average that out against shots faced then DDG made more mistakes leading to a goal last season than Onana currently has this season. Which suggests that if DDG was still here and playing behind this defence and facing the number of shots that Onana has that he would have made MORE errors leading to a goal than the Cameroonian.

Then we have those decrying that Onana was signed for his ball playing ability and that we aren't seeing that from him. Those people seem to have a very short memory. He did play out from the back when he first joined, but once Martinez and Shaw got injured playing out from the back became a liability. None of our other defenders have the technical skills to be press resistant. Meaning every time the keeper played out to them they were being pressed and losing the ball.

If your side will lose the ball everytime your keeper plays out then you might as well get your keeper to play long balls as at least you are losing possession of the ball 60-70 yards from your goal with most of your team behind the ball. As opposed to losing it 30 yards from goal with the majority of your team the wrong side of the ball to defend.

The reason Onana isn't playing out from the back has nothing to do with his ability, but the ability of the players he has to play a pass to.

Again its the context behind it that gives you insight rather than just looking at the surface level.

Onana is not a bad keeper, in fact he's a very good one. But he is trying to settle into a new team, in a new country, with a new culture, in a new league that has a very different style to what he has faced previously. All while that team is facing an injury crisis and playing very poorly.

It's easy to jump on the media led bandwagon, especially when you are feeling disappointed and frustrated. Just try and remember to gain some perspective and not just baa along with the sheep.

30 Nov 2023 10:59:14
Onana made two errors last night Shappy and cost two goals.
1 Look at how the wall was organised and then he stepped to his left, classic error.
2 Well it just went through him.

We should also look at who gave away two stupid free kicks in dangerous areas.

Onana has made mistakes and they have been costly ones. There will be questions about any keeper when that happens.

30 Nov 2023 11:01:32
Onana is making similar mistakes, shots low and close to him. Brentford, Bayern now Gala.

De gea came and made a lot of mistakes, but the difference is with de gea we signed potential as he was 19. Onana is 27. He’s not going to improve much more or develop new abilities. That’s the concern.

30 Nov 2023 11:12:15

He has a technical flaw dealing with low shots. He is not a bad keeper and has his strengths but there is something not right with how he handles lower shots especially if they are close to him and not ones he can stretch for.

DDG made similar howlers funny enough and its an open invitation to get crucified by the fans and media because they make any goalie look very clumsy and incompetent.

30 Nov 2023 11:12:17
Shappy behave. Nothing to do with a media bandwagon. I watched the game. The keeper made 3 mega poor efforts that cost us 3 goals. I don't need media to tell me.
Last nights result is on him and there is getting away from that no matter how you write it.

30 Nov 2023 11:31:18
First goal was not just Onana's fault. The wall was poor. There should have been two defenders behind the two Gal players in the wall. The ball went straight through their space as they peeled away. Every player in that team (yes, inc Onana but not just him) should have prevented that. Lack of leadership.

The third goal was just a superb strike. How Onana can be criticised for that I have no clue. Nobody could name a goalkeeper who would definitely have saved that shot.

Usual over reaction from many United supporters. It's football. A player has hit a poor run of form. Get over it.

30 Nov 2023 11:48:24
Onana has made some absolute howlers, but that's a poor way to judge goalkeepers. A StatsBomb tweet last week said he's saved +8.6 goals beyond expected in the EPL this year, which is best in the league. He also did some really good things yesterday and his distribution is really excellent. Yesterday was bad but he has been solid, and he comes for crosses well which has helped us a lot. Unfortunately he has been facing far too many shots. We let through too many runs from deep. I'm holding off judgement on him until we actually have a settled side, but if people can't see positives in the guy I think that's misguided.

30 Nov 2023 12:21:53
He just doesn't look comfortable . His handling is atrcious as he often takes two efforts to grasp the ball and his distribution is not on point atm . Saying that last night we or should i say bruno gave 2 stupid freekicks away and let's be fair, their 3rd goal was a superb bit of shill from the player first touch and then he hit the shot both powerfully and early. We could have easily lost the game but we cannot defend a lead with this setup.

30 Nov 2023 13:27:13
Shappy we don't need a lecture every time someone wants to express something. I haven't read a single thing in the news or pored over your usual statistics. I just watch the games and make an opinion. He is at fault for a great deal of goals this season, and we'll likely be eliminated from CL due to a fair few of them. End of.

30 Nov 2023 13:46:21
People always want to look for blame or pick out an individual when the team loses, but it is a team game.

Galatasaray had 16 shots, 8 on target. Is that Onana's fault that the team in front of him have allowed that many shots on goal. Or the fact United had 17 shots with only 4 on target? Was it Onana's poor finishing that stopped us being out of sight and scoring the 5 or 6 goals we probably should have from he chances we created?

This is where the idea that "Onana cost us the game" falls flat on its face.

Did he have a good game? Absolutely not. Yet what people fail to realise is that the game when fairly similarly to how most of our games have gone this season. We have been wide open defensively and it is the fact that Onana has for the most part kept the score line down.

As pointed out above the xG model suggests he's saved over 8 goals more than he should have on average. He has the highest save percentage in the league saving 78% of the shots he faces on target. While only the Luton, Fulham, Sheffield United and Burnley goalkeepers have faced more shots.

Does he have a weakness for low shots close to his body? Yeah possibly, hard to say for sure on a relatively small sample size. But name me a player who doesn't have a weakness. For example I'd fancy my 14 year old nephew to win a header against Leo Messi, does that make Messi a bad player? Of course not, every player will have a weakness.

The issue with the possible one with Onana is that it was a particular strength of the keeper he has replaced. Meaning its not something we are accustomed to seeing at our club.

DDG has a very different build, he was much more wirery. Meaning he could quickly react and adjust to make those saves. Onana is much more muscular meaning he is less flexible and will be slower to react in close quarters.

However, Onana is far better in the air, better with the ball at his feet, a better communicator, and the stats would suggest that he is as good a shot stopper over all.

Last season in 38 games DDG had a 71.1% save percentage and made 99 saves in the EPL. This season after just 13 games Onana has made 51 saves and has a save percentage of 78.8%.

Which highlights how many more saves Onana is having to make, and that he is actually saving a higher percentage of those than DDG managed last season.

Onana is not a bad keeper, he's just an over worked one.

30 Nov 2023 14:45:19
BRD he set the wall up, then proceeded not to trust it. That’s poor. If it goes over the wall and in the corner; then no complaints.

The mistakes he’s making are bread and butter to the best keepers in the world.

Shappy- you can use stats to highlight any point, the eye test never ever fails. I don’t compare him to de gea, because de gea was poor the last two seasons. Onana hasn’t been a significant upgrade.

30 Nov 2023 15:24:02
The real issue with Onana is it seems like he left his glasses in Milan. Keepers can not make the mistakes he has this season without serious questioning. His price tag makes it much more of an issue. Hopefully he finds form soon.

30 Nov 2023 15:36:36
People are blaming Onana last night not because we want a scapegoat but b3cause he was at fault and it isn't the first time in the Champion league this year he has cost us points.

All keepers, even the very best will make a mistakes as in fact do all players. If United want to compete again for top hours however they can't have a keeper making so many.

I do think a new regime will look to replace him.

30 Nov 2023 17:45:47
Oakbark, I doubt they will. Honestly have a look around the EPL, which keepers do you think are categorically a better keeper than Onana. Not better at one thing specifically, but overall a better keeper?

For me the only one is Alisson. Who is probably the best keeper in the world right now. Would I take Pickford, Pope, Ramsdale, Raya, Ederson, Vicario or Emi Martinez over Onana?

Probably not, he's at least as good as all of them, probably better than most.

I've rewatched the goals from last night several times now. Anyone who thinks Onana is at fault for the third goal must equally think Muslera is at fault for both Bruno's and Garnacho's goals. Three of the 6 goals scored last night were hit into the top corners, keepers don't save those.

The second goal there is no denying that he was totally at fault for that. Yes it dipped, but he needs to be keeping that out.

The first goal I'd say he's partially at fault, but I wouldn't call it a glaring error. Yes he set the wall up, but the wall was in the right place. There is nothing wrong with where the wall was. The issue came with Bruno standing with his arms crossed next to the two Galatasaray players on the end of the wall. He should have been behind them stopping them from peeling off the wall. The only mistake that Onana makes is he takes a step to his left as the ball is struck, which means he can't sort his feet out quickly enough as the ball comes through the gap. However, this is something pretty much 90% of keepers do as the most likely place the shot will be going is over the wall towards the near post. So keepers will tend to gamble and start moving that way when the ball is struck so they have a chance of getting there if it does clear the wall.

I wouldn't call it a massive error and would in all honesty say Bruno's poor positioning and not standing behind or even tracking the players as they peeled away was the main issue. That space should never be allowed to open up like that.

30 Nov 2023 21:24:38
Stats whilst of some use, can also very misleading unless used in context. And can only be accurate with consistent measurable inputs. For example Maguire pass success rate is always high. Why? Because he passes it mainly sideways or backwards. Same for Lindlhof. That’s not a dig at them (on this occasion) . Do the same statistics oh his effective forward passes. Completely different outcome. Pass saves are very similar. How many were really saves? A lot are just weak shots resembling a back pass. I’m not saying this is the case with Onana. Just making a point. But do the statistics with those removed and see how those numbers compare to other keepers.

1. Fact is that statistics can be skewed to win an argument by selective data samples.

2. Fact is that Onana has made a lot of gaffs this year and cost us vital goals and essential points. That cannot be argued to death. At 27 he should not be making these mistakes.

I’m not calling for his head. Far from it. But you cannot defend his shortcomings, more hope he filters them out of his game especially with a better defence in front of him.

30 Nov 2023 22:31:16
Following on the topic from this thread then that onana has single handedly cost us our champ league status, if he hadn’t of saved that penalty we’d of been out before last night? ??‍♂️ then whose fault is it if we’re constructing our usual pile ons after any game we don’t win!

01 Dec 2023 05:25:45

WE are doing the usual thing about a player when things don't go our way no doubt about that. However you can't argue he has cost us two win vs gala. At home his loose pass got cas sent off and we went from winning a game to losing one and then away yesterday that was really poor. The second goal was a lifeline for them.

One can have a debate about how we handle setbacks and how we could have still won the game given the chances we had.

He is going to have intense scrutiny going forward and fans will pile on including media and pundits and its his own doing tbh as he has made a few gafs.

01 Dec 2023 06:57:29
Yes he cost us a goal last night and at home was guilty for the red
Against Copenhagen at home he saved the blushes of our forwards and mctom by saving that pen and ultimately kept us in champions league? This is my point, you can’t just pile on players for big mistakes and forget the big moments before? If he doesn’t save that penalty gala away is a dead rubber!? Margins and details people chose to ignore when going in on one of our players!
A down grade on ddg I’ve read …
Ddg last season alone without even thinking cost us the fa cup final, our Europa run and nearly blew top four at West Ham! It happens
This guy like our other new signings need support, Mount is another who has become the go to guy to slaughter!
You need big shoulders to play at united and I’m sure these guys will prove it!

01 Dec 2023 07:51:14
2nd best goalkeeper in league what are you on! That’s laughable at best.



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