15 Nov 2023 16:16:42
When players aren’t performing and a new manager comes in, traditionally you get the bounce from the players. Will be interesting to see if SJR is in place before we return after the international break whether we will see a similar bounce from the players. I know people will say it’s nothing to do with what’s happening on the pitch or at training but the thought of a more serious approach to football from leadership above ETH, perhaps players may realise they need to earn their money and this would come at a perfect time leading into the Christmas schedule which is always a tricky period in the season.
15 Nov 2023 18:44:43
Hopefully, the removal of Arnold is mere signal of a cull, without which I don't see this bounce happening.
The players themselves need a tangible change of direction as much as we do and there is much work to do for SJR and his team.
If we can shed at least 50% of the pathetic 'yes' bods who have been sullying the foundations since the Glazer maelstrom started creating this shambles then I'm sure a noticeable vibe of positivity will shine through on the pitch.
Patrick Stewart, although brought in by Malcolm, will be adequate as a custodian until the permanent choice arrives.
Likely, we'll see Jean-Claude Blanc arrive as permanent CEO.
Together with Mitchell and Brailsford, we might well see another gaggle of 'yes' bods, but that isn't always a bad thing.
I'm hoping to see lots of movement, I'm sure I'm far from alone on that.
15 Nov 2023 19:38:59
Still don't see the upside for SJR -He is obviously a clever man but what's he really getting for 25%? Stadium needs serious overhaul and where is the money to do it and why would someone who owns 25% spend any money on it before we even get started on the money needed for the training ground, the wasteland outside the stadium and the playing staff.
Hope for his sake its not a vanity project that's going to go pear shaped on him which it may well do.
15 Nov 2023 19:39:48
I personally cannot get enthused about the whole SJR thing. I have a horrible feeling that it will become a logistical bun fight with the Glazers still in control overall.
I hope a lot of this press is just journalistic bull and he is not going to come in like a bull in a china shop and its his way or the highway. The world is littered with businessmen who think they know the best players for their club. Many have failed!
I have no axe to grind either way. I would have preferred a complete takeover by someone but I know beggars cannot be choosers.
I just want my club back, and am not bothered what we are winning as long as OId trafford gets its’ mojo back!
15 Nov 2023 20:27:49
Keefy. My take on this is that Glazers recognize that they're absolute crap at selecting the right people to run a football club, and they also understand that without success on the field, the club may become less valuable. Above all they are in it for the money. So, this a good move for them. They pocket £1.3bn while ceding the day to day running to SJR, and his cohorts. If things turn around and they will benefit, and if it doesn't they get to blame SJR.
15 Nov 2023 20:44:57
Everyone would prefer a full takeover but the glazers weren’t prepared to sell 100% to Qatar and Qatar wouldn’t offer what they wanted. So you’d rather it stays as it was? I don’t get this attitude that people won’t back SJR because he hasn’t got 100%. He’s taken 25%, he appears to be putting some good structure in place and already putting £250M of his own money in, £250M more than the Glazers ever have.
15 Nov 2023 20:52:41
If rumours are correct and Ratcliffe intends to push ETH to settle the dispute with Sancho, that is concerning. Chipping away at the managers authority is not right.
I also read that there is no new stadium, why should Rat or should I say his company spend £2Bn on a stadium when it doesn’t fully benefit him.
There is a lot of noise but the Glazers remain in control unless you believe some very dodgy maths from some on here. RR was right, but will a minority shareholder at only 25% really be able to go nuclear, I very much doubt it.
15 Nov 2023 21:12:27
Ed has said many times that the Glazers are not involved in the running of United, why would they have an issue with SJR taking over the running.
If he is successful, their shares will be worth more, he probably knows a lot more about football, has a lot better football connections than them and is probably better placed than them to actually make decisions.
It's a win win for the Galzers in my opinion. I can't imagine they would want anything other than for SJR to be a raging success, they would be very to sit back and watch him make them money.
15 Nov 2023 23:10:55
Redman you are a proper Ray of sunshine??? where were you when they were always singing 'always look on the bright side of life'?
Where did you read that report? From which reliable source did it come from? You will cheer any attempt to undermine sjr at every opportunity and you will try to pick up on every single possible negative.
Plenty of clickbait out there some positive some negative but you chose the negative to comment on and its no more reliable than the exagerated positive nonsense.
The new structure that will be put in will have a lot of major decisions to make.
Is eth the man for their plan? none of us know that interesting times ahead.
I'm quite sure we won't all agree with their every move but if it subject matter experts in charge with good experience I'll be behind their plan.
The vast majority will be I think.
Having people who are experts in their chosen fields in key roles will be a great thing compared to what we have had.
My question to you redman is do you think its a good thing that a new structure will be put in place with a vision and set up that will support the manager or would you rather it be left as it is?
16 Nov 2023 03:25:32
Ports
I never said at any point I would like it to stay as it is. I am the first on the Glazers out bus! I also never said I will not back SJR. I just said that I, personally, cannot get enthused about it as I do not see it panning out quite as well as many are hoping.
I seriously hope I am as wrong as someone can be but at this stage stand to be corrected. And equally hope I am!
Having said that, if the structure changes and he, to some extent, keeps his nose out of the football with the right people in place then I can see nothing but improvement over what we currently have in place.
16 Nov 2023 06:32:13
I recommend people do some research on Ineos and SJR. First and foremost anything he has invested in he eventually takes it private so expect at some point in the future the club to gets delisted from NYSE. Its really a useless listing and was done to get some equity out and the shares are of no relevance given the voting structure.
Going forward if you want to fix any business and united are a footballing business, you start with the leadership, which seems to be underway. You will not fix united by buying a couple of good players here and there. I would like to think the entire set up will be reviewed and changed, which will include players as part of the process.
I don't get the negativity and hanging your hat on the fact that he only owns 25% percent of the club, what can he do. The alternative is status quo and see where that has gotten us.
Ex players talking about this deal is a bit farcical and most footballers do not have a high school education and could not even read a balance sheet.
Finally it is in the best interest of the people who own the club for the club to be successful on the pitch and off the pitch no matter how much of it you own. The current set up is not working financially or on the pitch. I am personally really looking forward to SJR and give the man some credit for getting involved.
Where he is at in life and all his achievements, He does not need to do this and its not some evil plan to ruin things further. its his boyhood town, club and maybe a legacy he will leave behind for his family. Some people are calling a vanity project I call it maybe someone who is passionate about the club.
16 Nov 2023 06:45:13
Agree tumble, having professional people who are in the category of best in class in the big positions can only help our club!
We all wanted full sale but it’s a start to hopefully ridding the club of the leeches ??.
16 Nov 2023 06:46:11
Tumbleweed/ Ken
“where were you when they were always singing 'always look on the bright side of life'? ” I was on the terraces or in the seats at games, home and away singing it, where were you?
I think it could be an improvement, after all it couldn’t get any worse. It will be better but isn’t as good as it could have been with a full buy out. It was time for the club to make a giant leap but instead the leeches kept their claws in the club, ultimately they have control and Ratcliffe has let them.
Is the debt from the leveraged buy out still round the clubs neck? Looks that way.
16 Nov 2023 08:59:07
Red Man.
If the deal makes sense for the glazers and SJR then that is all that matters. It’s irrelevant to you or I.
He’s not going to hand over billions without a path to control which will be agreed and in the takeover terms. The level of control he has, will already be agreed.
He’s not come in with Qatari promises, but they couldn’t get the club so what’s to say they would’ve followed through. Maybe if he had you’d back it.
On the stadium he’s said in the past United shouldn’t move from old Trafford and plans are being drawn up to renovate it. Which personally was always my choice.
Change is coming, best in class operators are coming in and life could be breathed into the club.
16 Nov 2023 09:03:15
This is what you posted a couple of weeks back redman. Do you still hope the club are relegated even though you conceded that we are better off structure wise?
Post
If this is the end of the Qatar interest, and if, remains the question, this is a disaster. I hope the club get relegated, take the glazers and Ratcliffe to the second division. Let their asset be worth half what they were trying to extract. Let Ratcliffe realise that keeping the leeches involved is unpalatable for a United fan. Ratcliffe out.
Seems a little vindictive to me and not in the best interests of the club the vast majority of fans and the local community.
16 Nov 2023 09:10:19
How has Ratcliffe ''let'' the Glazers have control still?
16 Nov 2023 10:19:19
It's a ridiculous statement port's. Makes no sense whatsoever.
16 Nov 2023 11:47:05
Unless I am missing something Ratcliffe only has 25% and the Glazers remain in overall control.
My position has always been that no I don’t want relegation but if it meant ridding us of the Glazer leeches I would take it. Ratcliffe is enabling the Glazers to remain by enriching them by buying the shares. That money doesn’t go to the club.
As to the local community, what have the Glazers done? City’s owners have done a lot.
16 Nov 2023 12:00:08
The same press that are reporting on what SJR is intending to do are the same outlets that were saying SJ and Qatar were going to win the race a month ago.
They don't know what SJR is thinking or intending to do. Maybe he wants the dispute with Sancho sorted or maybe he doesn't.
Same thing with those reporting on potential transfer targets. The reality is that the people who will likely be making those decisions aren't even at the club yet. So they 100% haven't finalised or even shortlisted targets yet. They might have a few players they think might be good signings. But without getting their feet under the table and being able to assess the squad, speak with he manager, understand what the long term vision is, what the sporting plan is, what player options are available, what funds are available, etc etc. Then they can't have any plans on who they are going to sign.
It's all just media noise designed to make you click the link or buy their paper. It's nonsense and speculation and you'd be a fool to seriously believe any of it.
The club will appoint new people, and they will sign players, those new appointments and players will likely have their names in the press linked with us already. However, there are dozens and dozens of names that will never be apart of our club who are also being linked right now. The media takes the approach of "if you sling enough s**t at the wall then some of it will stick".
The truth is they don't know, they just profit on you being gullible enough to believe they might.
There are things we can logically deduce from this situation.
Firstly, no we probably won't be getting a new stadium. Certainly not anytime soon (the next 10 years) . Some people will be upset/ annoyed, others happy the club will be staying at our historic home. For a club that whose identity is intrinsically linked to our history maybe a shiny new stadium isn't the right move for us. Who knows. While it might be more problematic and long term more costly to renovate Old Trafford there is a chance at least that for our club it might be the right decision.
The issue about the Glazers staying is obviously a contentious issue. Yet there is literally nothing to be done about it. We can cry and stomp our feet all we want. But the only deal that takes any sort of power away from them, which they were willing to accept, is the deal that is being done.
Qatar made public promises but were ultimately unable to back it up. Logic dictates that if they really were going to invest 1.5bn into the club after buying it as well as wiping off the near 900m in debt that the additional 2.4bn they supposedly had to spend could have been used to force through a sale. The fact that it was suggests that those funds might not be there or at least would need to come from questionable sources over maybe a longer period of time.
Ultimately it's just nonsense hearsay. He doesn't exist and it probably never did. So it's pointless comparing our current reality with what was a fantasy.
SJR is a self made man, which makes him very different to the Glazers who are in their position due to Daddy Glazer. None of the Glazer children have proven themselves to be particularly savvy in business in their own right. They are the equivalent of a league one footballer. A paid professional who can do their job, but fairly average.
SJR on the other hand is a multiple title winning elite footballer with a Balon d'Or win under his belt.
The idea that the Glazers would give him the run around seems very farfetched. You don't get to where SJR is from where he's come from without knowing how to deal with people. How to get your own way, either explicitly or implicitly.
The fact Richard Arnold is on his way out before SJR has even officially come through the door proves that SJR is here to change things up. How successful that is remains to be seen. But he is going to be making changes. A new CEO, if rumours are true than it'll be SJR's man Jean-Claude Blanc. A new director of football is rumoured to follow, again Paul Mitchell is the most likely and is again SJR's man. So there are two key positions at the club that will make a big difference in how the club will be run and both look to be men chosen by SJR and people he knows and trusts.
That will likely only be the start of the shake up.
Will there be disagreements between the Glazers and SJR? I hope so. That means that ideas are actually being discussed and challenged. Dictatorships have a tendency to fail, no one should have absolute power. All clubs will have disagreements at boardroom level. Being a good businessman is working through those to come to the best solutions for the business. In this case the club.
Ideally would I prefer to see the back of the Glazers? Absolutely.
But that isn't a realistic thing anytime soon. So it doesn't benefit me in anyway to cry over their continued involvement.
I fully expect to see SJR eventually become the majority shareholder of the club. I highly doubt he'll ever look to own 100% of the club. There is literally no need for him to do so. As a result I wouldn't be surprised to see the Glazers still owning a part of the club in 10 or even 20 years time. Joel and Avram at least anyway, the other four might sell up as they have looked to leave for quite a while now.
However, by which time SJR will own the majority and will ultimately have the final say. There are a few legal issues that block the way to a majority ownership, but I expect those to be overcome at which point I fully expect to see SJR take a larger share of the club.
There is little to be gained over wishing things were different. Over hoping for or even expecting my dream scenario to come true. Let's wake up from the fantasy and live in the real world. Let's base our opinions on something real, something tangible.
For the first time in 18 years there will be a non-Glazer voice having a say in the running of the club. There will be someone who values sporting success, someone who wants to see the club run like a football club and not a trust fund. There is a good chance that this new person will eventually end up with the majority share and overall say.
Will SJR be a success? Who knows, the proof is in the pudding, as they say. But I'm note confident, more hopeful that he'll do a better job than has been done over the past decade or more. He will have an overall positive impact, even if he does make a few mistakes along the way, or that it takes longer than we would like. I suppose living in a world of instant gratification has altered our expectations and lowered our patience.
People said after two games last season EtH was the wrong guy. They then became very quiet as we went on to have a very good season, comfortably getting top four, and winning a cup.
A few games into this season they started up again. Ignoring the success of last season, or the mitigating factors this season.
One or two bad performances/ results and a loud section of the fanbase starts demanding change and for people to be sacked and lose their livelihood. It just highlights the lack of patience in modern society.
I'd expect to see some changes made quickly when SJR comes in, with others happening over time as you can't do everything all at once. I doubt we'll really see the results of these changes for quite sometime, good or bad. Yet people will probably start forming there opinions in the minutes after announcements are made. Likely starting to complain within weeks if their unrealistic expectations aren't met already.
In fact we are already seeing people complain about something that hasn't even happened yet. It seems some people in society don't even have the patience for a decision to even happen before they complain that isn't working or that it's the wrong thing.
Let's sit back and wait and see, there are things to be hopeful maybe even excited for, and there are things that could become a hurdle or potential problem. However, there is nothing to be gained over analysing things that haven't even happened, especially if those things are making us feel bad/ upset/ angry/ frustrated. Doing so is literally just you intentionally destroying your own happiness and peace. That's mental.
Sit back and wait and see. Try and take a positive outlook. Ultimately it won't change what happens, but it'll make you much happier right now regardless of what happens.
Imaging the worst case scenario causing yourself upset and emotional distress is a form of self-harm. It's just mental and emotional harm rather than physical harm. Oddly the physical harm might actually be less damaging, you certainly heal quicker from it.
16 Nov 2023 12:19:25
Red Man, the Glazers are the ones selling, they dictate who they sell to, they didn't want to sell to Qatar, they were prepared to sell 25% to SJR. What is your solution to resolve the issue you have with this situation?
16 Nov 2023 13:04:15
Ports
The Glazers own the club, they decide the price. Protest is the only option unless a very wealthy billionaire offers them enough. Once they have Ratcliffe’s money this time. they may not be as desperate financially to sell, maybe for years. It likely enabled them to stay for a while yet, financial pressure of no dividends is off. The supporters have made it clear they don’t want them, I would not be surprised if they wouldn’t have sold anything unless they either needed the money or became tired of the protests and feeling against them or a combination.
16 Nov 2023 13:29:37
Red Man, fans did protest and continue to protest, a very wealthy businessman allegedly did offer them more than the clubs worth, they didn't accept and they are not present enough OR have the emotional capacity to be bothered by the protests.
I like most if not all people on here and 99.9% of fans want the club shot of them but this is the best result currently. I cannot begin to think a conversation between SJR and the Glazers went along the lines of ''alright boys, his £1.6B, can I have 25% of the club? '' ''Yeah no worries Jimbo, what else apart from the 25% do you want for the £1.6B? '' ''Nothing, you carry on as usual and enjoy my money and I'll just put on my portfolio I own 25% of Manchester United, AND THAT'S IT! ''
1 Year ago, everyone would have bitten off SJR offer for 25%. I would go as far to say, he is playing it very well to get in and eventually get majority ownership. I can even see him owning more than 25% before the end of the season if the deal is in place before Christmas.
16 Nov 2023 14:12:19
I'm confused redman I think it's just to use your own phrase embryonic claptrap.
You say in one post very clearly you hope the club is relegated so sjr and the glazers lose a fortune. But now your say you don't want the club relegated. Which is it?
If you think the club being relegated would not be bad for the local community you are wrong.
If your are unhappy you want the whole club to suffer. What a charming approach. Think you need to move to North Korea to be with more like minded people.
16 Nov 2023 14:44:25
Red Man, when you write stuff like this "Ratcliffe is enabling the Glazers to remain by enriching them by buying the shares" it leaves me completely baffled as to how you could possibly have any scenario where you are happy.
The Glazers own the club and they own the shares. Where else do you think the money would go regardless of who it was buying those shares/ the club?
It's always going to go into Glazer pockets, whether that's SJR's money or if it was Qatari money.
SJR isn't enabling the Glazers to stay in charge, they have the ownership and they choose who they sell it to and to a large extent the price they sell for.
SJR is the only one doing anything to loosen Glazer control at the club.
From what I gather Joel and Avram want to keep the club the other four would be happy to sell, and may even prefer a sale.
I expect Glazer involvement at the club is likely to continue for many many many years. What will hopefully happen though is that SJR at some point buys the majority stake in the club and is able to ultimately direct the club down the path he sees best.
I highly doubt SJR will ever buy 100% of the club, he just doesn't need to. The Glazers don't even own 100% of the club. Speaking of which I expect Joel and Avram will hang on and on long after their siblings have sold up. They've got this idea in their heads that the club will be worth 10bn+ and will have massively increased revenues if/ when some kind of super league kicks off. They will hold on for a slice of that pie.
They may even own the club long after we are dead and buried. Maybe it'll pass on to their children like how they got it passed down from Daddy Malcolm.
You can't force them out, surely 18 years of protest have proven that. Short of clubbing together to hire an assassin you will not be able to get rid of them. They own our club and they dictate to us when they will decide to sell, for how much and to who. Until then they will continue to gain the benefits of owning a financially profitable football club.
The best we can do is work out how we can live with them until they decide to leave.
As for wishing relegation if it means getting rid of them that is the ultimate show of cutting off you nose to spite your face. It's the ultimate in anti-support of the club and absolutely sickening.
While it might get rid of them, at what cost? It might take a decade in the Championship to recover and get back to the EPL. Or we might never recover from it. Go bust and out of existence. You'd risk burning the house down to get rid of a flea infestation?
Would you really be happy then, no more Manchester United, but at least the Glazers are gone?
All that does is highlight that your hate for the Glazers is greater than your love of the club.
16 Nov 2023 15:49:09
Good Post shappy
The reality is some of the fans cannot get over the idea of glazers ownership of the club and there is no point talking about anything related to this investment.
A small portion of our fan base has zero patients and want instant success and looking to hang someone every week. Some weeks its the manager and then its this player or that player and now its sjr because they will be disappointed with the immediate results. People will jump on any news whether true or false.
Personally okay with wherever we end up finishing this season as long as we get major changes at the club. A plan that everyone is working towards, whether its players, investment into the academy or training facilities, Old Trafford and improvement of our finances or whatever else might be in the plans going forward.
I will trade off short term success and being back to square one for a longer term plan that brings a sustainable environment tto the club and a lot less noise. Boring is good:)
16 Nov 2023 18:03:20
The elements of control will all be dealt with in the contracts.
As far as I know this is a longer term takeover and that is coming to bring elements of control for someone coming in.
M&A is a complex area of law and I’d be sure that Jim Ractcliffe isn’t handing over billions to just be a minority investor red man.
16 Nov 2023 17:26:28
Ports
Please correct me if I am wrong, but am sure the esteemed Ed02 said Ratcliffe would not go for the majority stake in the club.
Tumbleweed/ Ken
You are back to trying to control people, aim at people personally again, you can’t be without control can you. Made my thoughts clear, no I don’t want the club relegated, but if that’s what it takes to get the leeches out. That’s always been where I sit. Reading that post, I can bet I was full of red wine and angry, the difference is I don’t aim it at you personally, unlike you. Telling me to move to North Korea to be with like minded people. Dear me.
Shappy
I refer to my position above. I am not wishing relegation.
Very emotive no more Manchester United. Fact is we survived relegation and would again, I remember the pain and most on here won’t. Go bust? Do you understand insolvency? I doubt it but surely the saviour Ratcliffe would not allow that. There haven’t been 18 years of protests, not real protests, more in recent years where it became obvious to most what they had done and were doing to the club.
Yes I want them out, before dividends start going out. They have been good businessmen but not good for the club, it just looks like they want even more.
16 Nov 2023 20:13:16
I can’t correct you. I’m sure Ed002 would if they wanted to, however I’ve not seen any suggestion from them to suggest that.