Manchester United banter 84274


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21 Dec 2019 11:36:04
Hi all,

Long time browser, first time poster. Just thought I'd finally add to the narrative on here, having checked in on nearly a daily basis for the last few years or so!

First off, a huge thank you to all the Ed's for their continuing input. It's so refreshing to read/ hear informed and intellectual points of view when there are so many reactionary and idiotic opinions flying round in football - this site is simply the best place for points-of-view and rumours.

I don't sit fully in either the Shappy camp or the Red Man camp. I like a long essay eulogising Ole, but I agree that the club in a bit rudderless. That said, I am enjoying the feeling of transition so much more than under previous managers. Displays of passion, pace and a genuine love for the club means so much more to me right now and I can handle the turgid and depressing performances if we end up with the fizzing displays like we saw against City and Spurs. Clearly we are not 'the finished article' yet but I believe that just a couple of decent signings could see us dramatically improve.

Klopp and Pep are, for my money, the two best managers in the world by some distance. We have to accept that and be ready to pounce once this incredible phase for their clubs starts to ease off (which it will) and I hope that we will be there to do that. with or without Ole is fine by me.

It's never fun watching your rivals winning so beautifully, but you have to be sporting and humble and say they deserve it. The key now is to be patient and get behind the team whilst they keep the United culture alive with youth and loyalty.

Merry Christmas all.

P. s. for the record, can we drop the phrase 'world class' yet? It's such an ambiguous concept and generally winds people up rather than settles any disputes!

{Ed025's Note - welcome to the madhouse jim, very good opening post there mate and we look forward to hearing more from you..

Agree4 Disagree0

21 Dec 2019 12:10:33
Welcome to the site, glad someone enjoys my long essays. lol.

For me I like a lot of what Ole is attempting to do. Bring youth through, play offensive football, and bring back a hard working character that has been fundamental to all success the club has had.

Do I think he is the tactical genius who'll dispose of all those before him? Sadly not, but then there are ways around having limitations if you have the right people around you.

I think if Ole can blood several young players such as Greenwood, Garner, Williams, Tuanzebe, AWB, Dalot and James this season while continuing to aide the development of McTominay, Rashford and Martial.

Then he will leave a very solid core of players who know what it means to be a United player behind for the next manager.

For me no matter how you approach the club currently it will take at least 2-3 years to get back to the top. Whether you buy 7-8 top class players which will need to be done over several transfer windows as at around 50m each you'd be looking at a spend of 350-400m at least. Then they take time to bed in and start performing, some work out and others don't. Add to that the clubs iffy transfer record especially when trying to sign already established top level players over the last few years you have to seriously doubt whether the club is best set up to approach building a side this way or what I call the Chelsea/ City way.

Or alternatively, you can bring in the best young talent and give the best young players at the club a chance to grow and develop. It will still take several years for them to grow into their roles and some will develop as you hope while others will not. But this is much more in line with how every great side in our history has been built. Be that the Busby Babes or Fergies Fledglings. Every period of sustained success has been built on a solid core of players who have either come through the academy or joined the club as teenagers/ young players and developed with the club.

Neither way is the right way or the wrong way, just different approaches. Personally I prefer the latter, I have a greater connection to the players who I have seen develop and grow, those players who feel more connected to the club and at least it seems give more for the club.

I don't think Ole will be the guy to take us back to the top, he is a good guy and clearly loves the club. But he isn't an architect, but then you don't need an architect to lay the foundations. Which is where we are at the moment.

21 Dec 2019 13:28:19
Great post. I wholly agree with what you put.

21 Dec 2019 15:21:57
Jim are you Shappy's other user name? 😂😂 You rephrased what Shappy has been saying all along. We don't need to compete with the best but we should just wait till the best drop off. Hardly a top level team thought.

Welcome to the site, you will love it.

21 Dec 2019 15:56:27
Welcome Jim. Good post mate as ed025 said it would be good to hear more from you.
There does appear to be a better or at least the bones of a strategy emerging.
I think everybody woyld like to see ole succeed. i'm like yourself a bit skeptical. However the decision makers are fully behind him.
Pogba is staying by all accounts so we have to hope that ole can win some silverware and develop the team over time.

21 Dec 2019 17:44:24
Shan, that's not quite right. I'm saying it will take several years to get back to the top. The aim is to compete with the best. I just have a realistic view that you can't just snap your fingers sack the manager hire someone else and suddenly this team will be at a level to compete with a record breaking City side and the best Liverpool side in over 30 years.

Even with a new manager it will take time to either develop our own players or buy new ones and integrate them.

Not all of us can live with our heads in the clouds😂.

21 Dec 2019 18:17:32
City have been dominant with a core of Kompany, Fernandiho, Silva, De Brune and Aguero.

This is coming to an end, much like Ferdinand, Vidic, Scholes, Rooney, Giggs.

We need to find the future strong core that can gel together and do the same. You can't buy it, they have to grow together over time and adversity.

21 Dec 2019 18:37:05
Its really amusing how ole supporters have changed tack. I remember when the window ended I and everyone who wasn't drinking the messiah koolaid said this season will be a train wreck given the lack of depth, I recall certain posters writing essays on how kids will cover for any lack of depth and develop into stars. Funny how 4-5 months turned 1 season into 3 and top 4 into a top half finish.

Also shappy you didn't think the guy with multiple league and champions league title would succeed but a guy with none of those will, so let's not talk about having our heads in the clouds shall we.

21 Dec 2019 21:13:50
Wait Shappy is busy typing another essay and is on google currently looking for stats to prove he is right. 😂😂😂.

21 Dec 2019 21:30:49
Welcome to the club, mate.

21 Dec 2019 22:43:42
CSM, if we win tomorrow we will be 1 point off of top four. Hardly a trainwreck, especially when you consider the injuries we have had.

For the most part the kids have stepped up and covered for our injuries.

It's just been unfortunate that for a period of time we had to field more of them at the same time than was probably fair.

I don't remember too many posts about the lack of depth to be honest. Most of the negative posts seemed to be about how Ole didn't know what he was doing, and that we would be more likely to be relegated than finish in the top four.

Try not to rewrite history. I said when Jose was hired he would do well in the short term, maybe even win the league in his second season (as he had with every club up until us) then it would all fall apart in his third season (as it had at every club) .

My opinion was that we needed a longer term vision than that which you get with Jose. Jose is the man you bring in when you have a good experienced squad who have lost focus and need a kick up the arse.

I said Jose doesn't think long term, he doesn't develop young players and that his football is very pragmatic and boring to most fans, but effective, especially in knockout competitions.

I think what I said played out almost exactly how I said it would bar us winning the league in José's second season. So he didn't even achieve as much as I thought he would.

Our club needs rebuilding and a longer term vision put in place.

I do not think the right people are in place behind the scenes to do this. So having someone in the managers job who'll instill the right mentality, and blood our talented young players so hopefully in a few years time they will be the spine of our next great side.

The difference is I change the stick by which I measure success accordingly. With a man who has always won the title in his second season then that is his measure of success. With someone brought in to reset the culture of the dressing room while blooding young players and improving our style of play then that will be what I measure him by.

Ole likely won't win us our next title, but if he can lay down the foundations for the next guy to do so then that is enough for me.

He is a man who loves the club and does everything based on the right intentions. So far, he has sold players most would agree needed to go, brought in three players most would agree have been a success, and changed the atmosphere around the club, while improving the level of entertainment seen in most games.

22 Dec 2019 02:52:14
Shappy the only reason for us having even a shot at top 4 right now is chelsea have endured a wretched run in last 5 games losing 4 of them, we have spent most of this season being closer to relegation than to top 4, no one outside of the cult of ole would call this season upto now a good or even an acceptable one. We have earned a point less than what we had last season.

Also about that entertainment, we scored 3 more goals last season under Mourinho who is as defensive as they come than we have currently in same number of games.

22 Dec 2019 08:18:26
Wait Shappy, did Ole whisper that all in your ear last night shile canoodling? For all we care he hates the club as long as he does what is right because smiling and loving never wins you anything besides maybe a kiss from your girl.

22 Dec 2019 08:22:59

100% agree, wonderfully written posts.

CSM, the only reason we aren’t top of the league is because other teams have more points. Perhaps Chelsea just aren’t really better than us, our 2 victories over them so far would suggest that. I wonder if Ole can be the first united manager in the premier league to do the double over them, something even Sir Alex never achieved. Surely nobody is still mentioning relegation seriously.

22 Dec 2019 08:48:20
Shane has switched from rash to ole.

22 Dec 2019 09:56:59
Gds we have taken 10 points from 12 available vs top 4. We have also somehow managed to take 10 points total from teams placed 11th to 19th. So which is it, are we a bottom table club or a top 4 one?

Fact remains that Mourinho managed to get more points last season in 17 games than ole has this season, he also had us scoring more goals than ole's team have managed.

This isn't improvement, ofcourse shappy will write his essays about how good the purchases have been and how kids have been given a chance. Fact remains that the 2 kids who have mattered this season have developed under lvg and the anti youth guy Mourinho. When lvg gave rashford a chance he started games, same with mctominay under mourinho, they did not get chucked in for 5 minute cameos at the end of the game expecting miracle goals.

Interesting isn't it that since shaw got fit, Williams has featured only once in last 5 games, how many games has tuanzebe played? Let's how many games Greenwood gets once a striker and a no 10 come in.

22 Dec 2019 10:06:57
The club imo now has a clear direction, I personally like the direction we have taken.
It takes time, it oles first full season and he is in the middle of moving out a few of jose players . Lukaku matic fellaini, been a breath of fresh air and I'm feeling positive about things at the moment.

22 Dec 2019 10:18:04

As you have been told, Ole is here to reset the culture, however, what is that culture? Is it an attempt to recreate what SAF did? That methodology worked where SAF was the boss but he was unique. This culture being set up for the boss who is going to win things gives me a smile. A top manager will have his own ideas, his own idea of culture yet he is having one built that he may or may not agree with.

Another transfer window approaches and again the Norwegian is going to have influence. The three signings so far have done well, but as each phase of the rebuild goes on we expect someone with such little experience to make the decisions that the next manager may not agree with. We are heading in a direction yet is it the right direction, going back to the past is not always wise, yet we are hurtling in that direction at the behest of a failed manager.

Shappy doesn’t remember posts about lack of depth. Perhaps he should check what was said about selling our main striker without a replacement or how we despaired at the paucity of our midfield. Less points and less goals than at the same point last season, but let’s admire the culture.

22 Dec 2019 13:05:23
Great debate, top welcome to the site ha.

My original point about enjoying watching United stands. I don’t really care about the lack of goals at the moment because the bags of potential for the future excited me for what will hopefully come. I remember watching the World Cup in a packed bar in Manchester which had a minute delay or so on the coverage - some idiot ruined it for everyone by cheering and saying “Maguire scores from this”, justifying it by saying that the result is the most important thing. He was wrong, of course. The most important thing was how much we as fans were enjoying it and it ruined what was a superb moment in that tournament. I’m sure there are many purists who follow united who think the same thing, but I get a lot more pleasure immersing myself watching them for 90mins than seeing a highlights reel on MOTD or even seeing the result pop up on a news feed or similar. The point being that it’s more about the enjoyment rather the result for me.

I’d also like to dredge up the age-old argument that José had three seasons to mould a team into what he ended up with last season. Ole has ended up with that team and only had essentially a season to get the this point. Progress is slow, but I reckon it’s still there.

Finally, Shan, it’s absolutely fine to accept not being top for a bit. Think of all the massive teams in the big leagues - they all have just as much of a managerial and success merry-go-round as any of the others in their leagues. That’s what keeps it engaging as a fan. With a club the size of United, it won’t be too long before some success returns to the club, even if it never reaches the dizzy heights of the SAF era. That’s just a reality check that most fans need to accept. Ole or otherwise, it will improve, so why not get on board and enjoy the ride in the meantime?



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