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03 Nov 2019 08:41:18
Agree with Ken down that everyone should chill out, if they want to criticize or cheer, then that's great.
I think this year is all about changing of the playing staff and restructuring at the club. I honestly hope we can stay up as this side has shown it has no fight in it. When we go behind, we can't seem to raise our game, when we go ahead, we lose the fire. It is a bad trait to have in any team as the minimum requirement in any sport is that everyone should give 100% for the cause.
This team does not have this mentality and that is very worrying.

Agree5 Disagree0

03 Nov 2019 09:37:13
I don't think there is a lack of effort from our current side. I think they are low on confidence and ultimately lacking in quality.

Andreas Pereira and Lingard run themselves in to the ground every time they play. Yet what they sadly lack is the ability to see or make the telling passes. Lack of quality not effort.

McTominay and Fred have worked tirelessly in midfield, but neither have the ability to split a team open with a slide rule pass.

We need two players to transform this team, someone who'll sit deep and control the tempo of the game who can hit quick accurate through balls to hit teams before the settle, and a clever No.10 who has the movement, vision and ability to find spaces in packed defences and exploit them.

Stick them with he hard work and drive of McTominay, the pace of James and Rashford and the clinical finishing of Martial all in front of a defence marshalled by Maguire with DDG as the insurance policy then suddenly we look like a team than can defend resolutely, hit teams with pace on the counter AND have the ability to break down sides that decide to sit deep.

03 Nov 2019 09:51:14
AAA

Agree and I know people on here have dismissed relegation but if OGS stays I will be nervous until we hit 40 points.

You are right about not being able to raise our game when we go behind, however yesterday, what was the management reaction in the game. We started out positively, started to fall away, there was no obvious tactic after 15 mins had gone. Watching James I wonder if defenders have sussed that when he receives the ball to feet he doesn’t take them on, he seems only to want the ball on the run. He started well and like the others faded, yet most of our attacks came down the right in the first half. Then we conceded a goal at a critical time. However, nothing was changed at half time, no reaction, just carry on as is, the tactics didn’t change, a sub wasn’t made until 67 mins despite the dire performance. It looks like the coaches don’t know what to do to change a game. They bring Greenwood on, needing a goal and stick him on the wing. Martial was hopeless yet continued up front. It is more than just the mentality of the players.

03 Nov 2019 10:15:04
If we beat Brighton at home next week we will likely be 6th. We gave a Liverpool a game and then secured 3 away victories with much better performance against Norwich and Chelsea than we have seen this year. Yesterday was poor and there is a huge amount of work to do but talk of relegation is ridiculous.

03 Nov 2019 10:53:04
AJH

I don’t think the R word is something to dismiss whilst OGS remains in charge, after all that is his only previous Premier League experience. In game management yesterday was terrible.

Interesting as to why Shappy feels the team were low on confidence after the three away victories.

The confidence will have been shot again yesterday and if we don’t beat Brighton the spiral downward may make the season a relegation battle. The state of the club resembles 1973 and the denial of the managers situation is making it more rather than less likely.

03 Nov 2019 11:44:09
Tony, like do not have a "divine" (or in some cases Devine) right to win all the time, we do not have the right to stay up all the time. I am sure we will be all right at the end of it all and we won't be relegated but its a tough ride with Ole at the wheel. I think we will closer to the relegation teams than the top 3/ 4 come May, if Ole stays on. I can't argue with Red Man on his relegation thoughts cause i get them too. Its simply a case that larger the body the harder they fall. So when Manchester United falls, it will surely be a hard fall.

With us it has become a case of ifs and buts. If we beat brighton, i mean come on. If this is what has become of us then surely its time for Ole to. walk.

Shappy you mention Martial but is he interested in playing? Was he playing yesterday? He is like Pogba who turns up once in 10 games and i am not ready for that. Same for Rashford, play great in 1 then disappear for the next 10. Its time the superstars took a leaf out of Scott McT's book on what it is to play for Manchester United or for any team that is bloody paying you. You can't just turn up when you feel like.

Also, why was the confidence down yesterday. I mean we were on a brilliant winning run beating some great teams on the way or atleast that was what was told and we had turned a corner, wasnt it? The thing is that run coincided with Martial and Rashford turning up to play and we got easy teams and we won. Now we are back to our default settings.

03 Nov 2019 12:03:07
Shan mctominay was the worst player yesterday consistently failing to complete 5 yard passes.

Martial and Rashford had quiet games yesterday, martial's hold up was poor but there wasn't much wrong in what rashford did.

Mctominay and periera were basically playing for Bournemoth. Both failing to find either martial or rashford when they made the runs. The early chance that Pereira fecked up came from martial's pass.

May be if scott Mct could pass better we might have seen a different scoreline.

03 Nov 2019 12:06:01
Ajh explode our form from first 11 games and if you like look at the last 12 from last season. We are not winning enough points so to say the talk of relegation is stupid is unfair.
We have not won 2 consecutive league games since March.
That is relegation form no matter how you look at it.
I don't think we will go down but it can't be dismissed as nonsense when all the stats back it up.

03 Nov 2019 13:34:20
Red man, I think the team would have started the match fairly confident. However, once Bournemouth scored our players confidence visibly dropped.

I mean that the teams confidence is fragile, a few good results will start to build it up, but it can easily be knocked back down again.

Shan, we have a lot of young players 23 or under, as such they will be inconsistent. Hazard was inconsistent until he was 25, brilliant in some games, invisible in others.

Martial is 23 and has had one spell as a striker with us in his first season, and a handful of games since. So although he might be 23, there will be elements of his game that will be lacking in experience when playing as a central striker as opposed to a wide forward. So he will have games where he will struggle to make an impact.

Strikers are also almost entirely dependent on those behind them playing well to have a major positive impact on a game. If they are feeding off of scraps and half chances they will struggle to make a clear impact. This is made worse when viewing on TV which often makes it hard to see their off the ball runs as cameras follow the ball. Meaning often it doesn't look like a striker has done much when the ball hasn't gotten into the final third very much.

McTominay had a poor game yesterday. It happens when you're a young player, was that down to lack of effort?

We will have to accept poor games from young players, unfortunately unlike when Ronaldo and Rooney were coming through there isn't world class players such as Scholes, Carrick, Keane, Giggs, RvN, Rio, Vidic etc to carry them through a poor performance.

Our best players are young players. So we will suffer more from their dips in form and lack of consistency.

03 Nov 2019 15:08:53
I don't understand this "confidence" thing. We played well against liverpool, raised our game. Played well against Norwich, then played well against Chelsea for long periods. Why will we be low on confidence?
I hate talking about relegation, but the fact is our form for the last 20 league matches is relegation form, that's a fact.
I still don't see any real fire and drive in the team, running a lot isn't what we're looking for, running with intent, desire and ambition is what is required.
Agree with RedMan, ken and Shan, do we see any plan or obvious tactics? I don't I'm afraid. I see a team who play disjointed football, with no clear ideas, and not much intent to score. I like the fact we're getting rid of some of the non achievers and hopefully the virus that is Pogba.
But I still don't see much fight in Martial, no selfless running off the ball.
Ed047 had a brilliant response to a post below get rid of pogba and Martial, buy kane and a proper midfield and I would love Brendan Rodgers or Simione in charge. In the case of Simione, we know that any United team will come off the field having given their best for the cause. Lingard, Martial, Pogba will not last a minute. And it makes me laugh when people say he plays defensive football watch Athletico and you realize that is not the case.
I loved ogs as a player, but him and phelan, carrick have shown absolutely nothing to make the doubters change their minds. It's nearly a year and the team are playing clueless football, are we suddenly going to see the management team come up with the ideas discipline and creativity to improve this run of results? I don't see it happening.

{Ed047's Note - AAA on paper you’re always in the big 3 in world league football with Madrid and Barcelona.

However City and Liverpool would probably win an argument that they are currently the two best sides in league football across the globe.

They have again, arguably, the best two managers.

It should be that a manager considered to be alongside them, in Simeone, should in truth be your manager.

In truth players like Van Dyke, De Bruyne, Fabinho, Kane, Mane and Kante should be playing amongst your side. The money you’ve spent, every single one of them could have been.

I don’t know how your owners have not made that happen, how they’ve got it so wrong since 2012.

03 Nov 2019 16:44:25
Shappy

So confidence is now fragile and the three wins (only one in the league) are now history.

Tell me,
1) based on your point about confidence, if we carry on as we are, how are things going to change or improve?

2) We have a manager who has only known relegation at this level of football, how is he going to change our direction? Based on what experience?

3) Since OGS was made permanent he has overseen relegation form, at what point do you think the club have to make a change?

I am with AAA, this is clueless football, several Ed’s and many others on here have already recognised this Ole experiment has already gone on far too long already. I am sat here at nearly 5pm on another Sunday and the club are dithering still.

03 Nov 2019 17:11:49
Ed047, City and liverpool are light years ahead, not only football on the pitch, but club organisation. We have clowns in charge of running the football side of the club.
As you rightly point out, how did we get it so wrong? Well the truth is bad managerial appointments, bad player recruitment, terrible deals, paying over the top for mercenaries in order to increase merchandise revenues. Shambles doesn't even begin to describe it.
In addition, as Red Man pointed out, ogs has not had success at Cardiff and he's certainly not having success here. So what is he and his coaches going to do to change the situation? Honestly, I don't think he has an iota of an idea, and Phelan/ Carrick are certainly not going to be much help.
Last but by no means least, why do we keep getting oufought, out thought in matches? Surely, any United team will go out to die for the shirt, that's the basic requirement, but it simply is not happening.

03 Nov 2019 17:16:11
Edo47 all you say above i am in full agreement on.
I don't doubt that ole and staff are working really hard and trying their best. But they are totally out of their depth.
Some, maybe quite a few of our players are out of their depth.
I'm all for pressing the reset button once again.
Simeone is the world's highest paid manager so it would not be easy to get him but i'd take him in a heartbeat.
Pogba martial both escaped the axe this year but it should fall on both in the summer or jan imo.
Andreas fred shaw jones mata matic young all fall into the same category for me.
Some of them try hard just like ole but they are simply not good enough or not interested enough or too inconsistent are are forever injured.
Id honestly prefer to play the kids and take what comes from that.
No clear defined strategy on or off the pitch has left us limping and telling from 1 bad decision to the next.
It says it all when there would not even be a whimper of discontent when a club legend like ole is let go by the loyal untied fans.
Nobody would be surprised or shocked or dare i say downbeat if ole is fired in fact i think the vast majority would be relieved thank him for his efforts and applaud him forevermore.

{Ed047's Note - it was a crazy appointment Ken, akin to taking on someone like Ian Holloway who found himself out of his depth in the Premier League. The only clear difference being Ollie and his United history.

Pretty much every year I assumed you’d buy the best and be back up there.

Arsenal fans, probably including me, were constantly guilty of saying, two more players and we’re back in business.

This is what United fans are saying now and have been for a fair few years but how many seasons have you brought in more than 2 players since Fergie left.

Can it get a lot worse? I really think it’s in the balance.

As for Simeone surely what ever money he wants he has to be the starting point to turn it all around.

He’s not old nor out dated and wouldn’t surely even be a risk.

How long will it take of this before the clubs income starts taking some big hits?

03 Nov 2019 19:10:34
That's what many fans don't understand ed imo.
Doing nothing at this point and leaving ole there could see our demise accelerate.
There is only very few fans left with their head on the sand.
In fact they really know the truth but can't bring themselves to say it.
Even posters on here stamping their feet and disappear citing its a hard read blah blah blah. Its only a hard read as they are defending a position and manager that's indefensible.
Its been gaining for years three demise In quality of our squad its culminated in a rank bad manager and an appalling squad. Press the reset button once again and do it soon.

{Ed047's Note - I think there is now a fear at board level of resetting and getting it wrong again even though I personally think, that as you say, the vast majority know is what needs to be done.

They must be under a massive amount of pressure and stuck between a rock and a hard place, they’ve invested a huge amount of money with very little to show for it to be honest.

I can’t imagine for a minute they are not already planning their next step but in reality that’s any ones guess. They surely can’t be sitting there in hope that Ollie has a Mark Robins moment.

The Premier League needs a fit and firing United.

03 Nov 2019 20:01:46
Can't say I'm a huge fan of Simeone's style of football, but at least his team's work hard. If he could bring whoever is in charge of scouting/ transfers from Athletico that would be a huge bonus, look at the number of top keepers and strikers they have unearthed over the years.

As far as the cost of getting him in/ his wage demands, they will be a fraction of what Pogba costs us. We used to pay Fergie more than Beck's and he actually turned up and produced for the team each week and even if he wasn't having a great game at least he would chase back and show some grit and determination. There's only so long we can perform this poorly before our income from ticket sales, shirt sales and sponsorship drop off and we will no longer be able to pay horrendously over the odds in fees and wages to attract over hyped mercenaries. maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing. maybe we might start scouting players properly and investing wisely in less well known players

Whoever is manager though they need the board/ hierarchy to support them, to ship out the players they don't want and to commit to bringing in the type of players they need for their system and to back them when they feel they need to discipline players.





 

 

 
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