04 Dec 2015 09:15:45
So there has been a bit of discussion about how we would set the team up and how we would like to see the team play. For me this is extremely interesting, I love tactics and the inner workings of a team dynamic.
I noticed a few similarities between how everyone would like to see the team play even if how each person would go about it is in a different way.
It brings me to the point of this post. We all want to see a team that plays in a way that should be synominous with Manchester United.
The clubs that stand the test of time do so by having a philosophy that trancends one individual. This is what we should be aiming for, not following current trends.
If you look back over our history and more specifically the players who have a lengendy status with our club and we notice that many of them play in certain positions.
First off and the most obvious is our wingers, we have always had great wingers and that only happens due to an emphisis that is put on wing play by the club.
On the other hand we are very short on great No.10's, this is probably due to the fact that as a club we have generally focused our attacks from the wide areas thus nulifing the need for a creative player in the middle.
Speaking of the centre of the pitch we have had many great central midfielders, they have all had a fight and desire, but they have also been well rounded players who contribute as much going forward as they do defending.
We have also had great strikers, but in fairness strikers get remembered more at every club due to the nature of thier game.
The thing I notice most those is rampaging all action midfielder full of energy and quick tricky wingers.
That shows imo the template of a great United side, and should be how we look to build toward the future and how we should look to play.
It doesn't matter how you line the team up 442/4141/4231/343/451 or whatever formation you want, the emphisis should be on high energy, offensive football through wing play.
This should be a very important factor to be considered when it comes to hiring our next manager, Moyes and LvG haven't achieved what we expected of them because neither set the team up in a manner that is in keeping with great a Manchester United side. So they were never goung to be able to create a great United side.
The next manager needs to be hired knowing what is expected of him.
04 Dec 2015 09:30:53
I do totally agree with this. We have had a couple of number 10's that haven't really worked out: Kagawa and Mata to a great extent.
Our wing play is certainly the worst that it has been for some years.
We definitley need more of an attacking threat, and I would like to see a new striker come in to this end. High energy is also a must.
That is why I am championing the 3-4-3. It provides more natural width provided by the full backs. One of the two central midfielders can join the attack with the other sat back a little bit watching and controlling the play if the ball is cleared. The forwards then are free'd from purely having to provide width to being able to move about and link up. With possession based football it also gives the benefit of having more players in the oppositions half. One thing I notice now is that our attackers are crowded out and have no space. With two players keeping the width and movement in the middle, we would be a far better attacking unit.
It would need investment to make it work mind. Stones and Kane would be ideal. New young players would fit into this sytem: Tielemans in the middle, Kongolo as a left centre back and maybe Bernardo Silva as an option for the right forward or right wing. All these players we have been linked with and the ed has said that they are 'possible'.
04 Dec 2015 10:54:34
Fresh, 343 is the football purists formation, it creates the most triangles and is a formation that is ideal for possession football.
But it doesn't lend itself to wing play, and it is very vunreble to the counter attack in the wide areas.
It also asks a lot of the wide players and the central midfielders. That middle four are all about carrying the ball forward leaving the play making duties to either the centre backs or wide forwards who tend to play more as wide No.10's rather than wingers and as such tend to play inside far more.
For us to play it we would require new centre backs who are very comfortable on the ball. We currently have none, so would be looking at bringing in at least three CB.
The amount of work required by the wide players in this system means you need four top quality players for these positions as a lot of rotation is needed to avoid burn out. With our current squad that means two more players for this position.
Now we have 5 new players needed. Then we have only two midfielders suited to this style in Schneiderlin and Herrera, Carrick and Schweinsteiger don't have the legs and energy levels to play such a system. So we would need at least one more midfielder probably two to allow for rotation amd injuries.
In the wide forward roles we are lacking quality, currently and this system would not move us away from that problem. We would still need at least another wide forward of quality with this system.
And we would still need another striker as Rooney is in decline and Martial is young amd can't be expected to shoulder the burden yet.
So that's 3 CB who can pass the ball, 2 top quality full backs to rotate, 1 or 2 midfielders for rotation, 1 wide forward and 1 striker. In total 8 or 9 new players to allow us to play this formation.
Thats far too much, its clear that 343 doesn't suit our current squad, and its not an ideal formation to utilise wing play as it focuses at least 6 but often 8 of your outfield players into a more central position.
04 Dec 2015 11:08:50
Fresh,
I think with Kagawa and Mata, they both needed a good run at the number 10 position. Not just a handful of games. On the other hand football is about taking your chances.
Our players out on the wings have been poor for some time. The fact is Fergie did a great job in his final season, but left a team that required a rebuild which isn't a click of the fingers and there you go, we're ready to rock and roll.
Currently LVG has adopted a cautious approach to games. We will get more draws this season than we normally get.
It's unlikely that we will buy players in the January transfer window unless we are forced to, if another club moves for a player (s) were are interested in.
I think Ancelotti would be our perfect manager. Guardiola won't stay long term and perhaps will always be thinking about his next job.
04 Dec 2015 12:02:16
Shappy,
I am inclinded to largely disagree - the whole point of a good debate I guess.
I think starting from the back, De Gea is the perfect keeper who is very comfortable on the ball.
Defensively I think you could easily have Smalling as the right centre back, you could have Blind as the libero and would therefore only need the left sided centre back to be brought in. Some will say that it could be Rojo, but I wouldn't trust him. You could well have Kongolo there though.
The midfield 4: Darmian and Shaw would be the first choice wide players with Young and Valencia also capable of playing in those roles. Schweinsteiger I think could play that role, Carrick would maybe struggle some more but Herrera and Schneiderlin are also well suited. You could easily add to our midfield with options with the signing of someone like Tielemans as an extra option.
Then upfront, we would certainly need a new striker. But we need that anyway. Martial would play to the left as an inside forward and Memphis to the right as an inside forward. Alternatively sign someone to play as part of that front 3.
So to make it work you would probably need: a left sided centre back, maybe an extra option in midfield for cover and a new striker.
04 Dec 2015 12:32:29
I think we should play 3223.
04 Dec 2015 12:53:38
Fresh I think you underestimate the strain this system puts on certain players within it.
To make this system work you need all your centre backs to be good with the ball at their feet, the system relies on any of the back three being capable of playing dangerous passes out from the back, otherwise the opposition just man mark your "playmaker centre back" and then you struggle to build from the back.
Smalling really isn't suited to this system and he's probably our best CB. Blind is the only one imo who could play well in this set up. So we would need more than one CB. Plus you not considering squad rotation.
Shaw and Darmian could do a great job in the wide roles. But Young and Valencia are no more than stop gaps. This system puts so much work on to the wide players that you need to have two players for each side and each need to play around half the games. So in betweeen 40-50% of our games we would need to start Valencia and Young. They are not good enough to do that, we would drop too many points.
Schweinsteiger can't play in this system which is why Pep was prepared to let him go. He struggles to get through 90 mins in a system that means he sits deep and doesn't cover as much ground at pace. Neither can Carrick be of much use in this system.
If you look at the wide forwards Bayern have to play this system, Robben, Ribery, Costa, Goetze, Muller ect then look at who we have Mata, Young, Januzaj, Depay, Lingard ect.
You see the difference in quality? We would need to bring in at least one player here and hope one of the youngster step up, other wise maybe two would be needed.
This system works at Bayern due to them having a squad of quality players who suit it. We have few players who suit this system and even less of them of the quality required to challenge teams at the top of the game.
We need to stop trying to copy what others are doing, for aslong as we have poorer players we will be a poor imitation.
We need to do things our way, and bring in the players who suit our way of playing. Then we can become a great side in our own image.
343 just wouldn't suit us any more than it would have suited Peps Barcelona side. Which is why he didn't do it at Barcelona. Pep has changed systems to suit his players and get the best out of them. Maybe he does that for a reason.
04 Dec 2015 13:50:46
formations mean nothing, its just for fans shape of the team changes through the game .
04 Dec 2015 14:00:06
444 and that should leave a man free all the time.
04 Dec 2015 14:36:05
Thats true to a point. Formations are a reference point for people to see part of a game plan and to give a structure to help indicate where a manager would like his players to see as their primary position.
As for formations changing during the game, they should be felxible but LvG doesn't seem to think so. Lol.
04 Dec 2015 15:48:03
We are swashbuckling Manchester United. We should play 226.
04 Dec 2015 16:20:04
Anything is better than 6-3-0-1.
04 Dec 2015 16:44:14
jred,
'Formations mean nothing' is a very interesting statement to make, I would imagine every manager of every team at every level tells his team what formation they will be playing in that day, if it meant nothing then why would they bother?
04 Dec 2015 16:58:42
gds
i think you will find every player is given an individual role to play .
this will change for various aspects of thd game corners, free kicks, if x player has it, if the ball is on the left etc
"right boys it 442" is a bit more sunday league.
04 Dec 2015 22:05:06
I think we should play 1-1-8 formation it really puts the emphasis on attacking. and moustaches we all love a good moustache.
05 Dec 2015 11:10:52
Totally agree with shappy here, I think we would get absolutely slaughtered in a 3-4-3 our players are no where near the standard. Our perfect system and perfect manager would have been Klopp, it's a shame we will probably never see that at Old Trafford now, so ancelotti would be my perfect choice to take over us, either him or pochettino.