Manchester United Rumours Member Posts

 

The Beast's Profile

Current Avatar:
The Beast's Avatar
Correct Score Competition:

Not entered
Correct Score Competition
Flat Out Racing:

Not played Flat Out Racing


No Profile Picture uploaded

Team: Manchester United


Where from: England


Favourite player: Evra


Best team moment: Recent times: the Scholes last minute header against City, RVP against City and Martial against Scousers.


Interests:


Timezone: (GMT +1:00 hour) Brussels, Copenhagen, Madrid, Paris




The Beast's Posts and Other Poster's Replies To The Beast's Posts

 

 

To The Beast's last 5 rumours posts

 

To The Beast's last 5 banter posts

 

To The Beast's last 5 rumour replies

 

To The Beast's last 5 banter replies

 

The Beast's rumours posts with other poster's replies to The Beast's rumours posts

 

13 Jan 2017 19:14:26
Hopefully this Costa incident is the trigger for the much needed Chelsea collapse. Win on Sunday and everyone will be scared that we are coming for them.

The Beast

{Ed025's Note - my fear beast is that they may make a move for lukaku now, he would jump at the chance imo mate..


1.) 13 Jan 2017 20:52:24
We, I really don't rate Lukaku, I know he can sometimes bully CBs and score dramatic goals but generally he looks like a fat lump blundering around. Just my view of course.

{Ed025's Note - thats very nasty and short sighted of you AJH...but very true.. :)


2.) 13 Jan 2017 22:07:38
He's like that heavily made up blonde on a night out who looks very tasty until you get her into the light, beer googles at their most seductive.


3.) 13 Jan 2017 22:10:18
😂😂😂


4.) 14 Jan 2017 03:46:48
If costa is sold or even just has a falling out with conte, we really need to beat liverpool, as i was hoping and i think most utd fans will agree, if we aren't able to win the league it is better if chelsea do it rather than one of city or liverpool.


5.) 14 Jan 2017 11:16:54
Lukaku is perfect for Chelsea's system but he's no Diego Costa. I can't see them letting him go this January though although a summer deal makes sense.


6.) 14 Jan 2017 12:13:23
I know Costa is expensive but £80 million for a coffee is just ridiculous.


7.) 14 Jan 2017 14:26:04
I'm not sure about timing but I read that the Chinese are going to be clamping down big time on the money being spent by their clubs, as a means of capital controls (just doing it with Bitcoin now) . So maybe there is a major timing factor involved, possibly a one time opportunity for the start of their new season.

Possibly why the amounts in question seem so desperate and why Costa is trying to force a move now. Just speculating of course.


8.) 14 Jan 2017 19:56:59
Costa isn't trying to force his way out.


9.) 15 Jan 2017 01:30:24
i hope costa stays where he is (and stops scoring) because if he leaves they might bid for moussa dembele of celtic.


10.) 15 Jan 2017 13:36:29
hmm Jackson, who knows what to believe. Quite a coincidence we were only talking of something like this the other day. That said you still smashed Leicester and have a £30m striker rotting on the bench, so still need a few more spanners in the works to give us a sniff.


11.) 16 Jan 2017 19:38:40
Hope he stays. He's saved my dream team this season.


 

 

01 Jul 2016 17:29:56
I just read that Neymar signs a 5 year deal, but his buyout clause rises the further he gets into his contract, this seems odd to me is it odd?

It's almost as if they are telling clubs to come and get him now if they are interested.

Does anybody know what his buyout was prior to the new contract? It's now £167m for the first year, rising to 186m 2nd year and then £209 for the third), on the Beeb.

The Beast

1.) 01 Jul 2016 18:07:30
Not sure but this deal is pretty sensible from barca, with teams like palace throwing £30m at Marseille for that Belgian lad who knows how much players will be going for in 5 years, it's gone even more ridiculous this year.


2.) 01 Jul 2016 18:08:46
Beast I don't know enough about buy out clauses but it makes great sense for the owners as under normal circumstances the players value decreases as his contact runs down. It also means that they will be in no rush to Renew and give him another rise in order to uphold his value.


3.) 01 Jul 2016 19:34:13
Great points guys, hadn't even considered that in my haste.


 

 

10 Jul 2015 16:38:30
Hi Ed's - I am a regular contributor to the site as you may know. Several people ask about a fantasy football league each year and I have been part of one for the past 4/5 years, I can vouch for the credibility of it. I didn't want to post on the website without your permission first, this is what I want to post, do you mind?

"I am part of a dream team league, ran by a chap called Andy. I have done this for the past 4+years and it works a treat. You pay £50 upfront and each month there is a prize for manager of the month, the remaining money goes into a pot for the top 3 managers of the year - all registration fees are redistributed to winning managers. I have personally won a few managers of the month and have been paid appropriately. This is just a group of guys coming together and nothing formal/company orchestrated, so if you want to join the league the code is 90970-25762 (it is the Fantasy Premier League). Andy will provide you with his acct details if you join and over recent seasons we have had over 50 people in the league – it was primarily a group of friends but I have asked him if he would mind me opening it up to my “banter buddies” and he has no problem so long as it causes him no issues"

The Beast

{Ed002's Note - Sure, no problem.}


1.) 10 Jul 2015 17:24:08
Super Beast, Might join you on that .


2.) 10 Jul 2015 19:35:39
Now I'm confused yesterday someone was going to setup a FF competition for the lads all here at no cost, I think that £50 is a tad steep especially when in euros it's 70 or more for your one Beast.

Now I'm not a tight git but I try play the FF gig and more times than not forget to change players etc, as I get caught up in stuff at home or within family homes doing repairs etc so miss a lot of the tactical changes lol!!

If we were to set up a MUFC page FF competition and at a cost of €20/25 I would enter it no problem


3.) 10 Jul 2015 20:02:09
Pyramid Scheme!


4.) 10 Jul 2015 23:10:25
We had one for free last season, not sure who set it up but we had over 70 people in it from this website.

The one I am talking about has cash aspects attached so obviously won't be for everyone. I throw in £50 with this guys league because if you win a manager of the month its normally £80-£100, then £1k or so to overall winner.

Horses for courses, I just put it out there as some people were asking and I have always been paid on time.


 

 

21 May 2014 19:30:13
Keeping with the trend of being a bit left field today.

Does anybody know what the situation is with Yarmolenko & Konoplyanka. They obviously both play in Ukraine (Europes South Sudan at the minute), so with all the unrest I don't know what this will mean for their domestic game, would Kiev & Dnipro be up for selling and if so would they finto LVG's system?

The Beast

{Ed002's Note - Konoplyanka is available and there is a lot of interest including from MU.}


 

 

 

The Beast's banter posts with other poster's replies to The Beast's banter posts

 

20 Jan 2018 01:20:07
Glad to see Carrick is offered a coaching role. It's good to see that evolution and hopefully he can pass on his experience to younger specimens.

However if I read one more post with the word "under-rated" next to it when it comes to him on all the MSM forums I think i'll explode. The most talked about under rated player of all time, it drives me crazy. You can't read anything about Carrick without seeing the term "under rated" next to it.

He has been a good player, great in certain situations, a passenger in a lot. Somebody most top teams need, but not a superstar, 'a fair days pay for a fair days work' is how I'd sum him up - one of the few. That doesn't mean he is under rated, it simply means he hasn't been over-rated like 99% of other players.

The Beast

1.) 20 Jan 2018 02:59:55
He was a bit under-rated though. Lol.


2.) 20 Jan 2018 03:49:50
Lol shappy.


3.) 20 Jan 2018 04:31:09
Boom!


4.) 20 Jan 2018 05:48:27
Thats a bit harsh Beast. I think he is un fussy, he was the oil that kept the engine moving. There was a time when SAF acknowledged he was the first name on the team sheet and fellow pros were queuing up to sing his praises. Now beat me on the bottom with a Woman’s Weekly as I may be wrong, but I’m probably not, and you may not agree, but don’t really care, in anyone’s book that makes him underrated.


5.) 20 Jan 2018 06:16:35
AJH - I think everyone with a bit of knowledge appreciates the job Carrick did, and for the past 10 years whenever his name comes up it always has "under rated" next to it. Who is under rating him?

It's like me saying "all these people saying we shouldn't sign Sanchez because he isn't good enough are wrong". Well I haven't read anyone say Sanchez is no good, I'd just be saying something for effect. Carrick is the most talked about player in the "under rated" bracket in the history of football. That in itself means he isn't under rated surely?


6.) 20 Jan 2018 07:26:07
Has a player ever just been rated.


7.) 20 Jan 2018 07:55:45
Never under rated by United/ spurs fans.

Always been under rated by England.


8.) 20 Jan 2018 09:02:39
I wouldn't say underrated
But his pivotal role has been undermined.


9.) 20 Jan 2018 09:51:12
Very underrated player.


10.) 20 Jan 2018 10:00:32
Going about his job and keeping out of the headlines, he's a 7 or 8 out of 10 most weeks, just like Dennis Irwin and no one called Dennis under rated. He's not under rated by the fan's players and management. He's a great pro just likes Scholey, get the job done and gets home to the family.
If i'm honest he was over looked by England, some people may call that under rated, but his England days came when England had many great midfielders to pick from, personally i would of give him more caps.
Great player and pro, good to see he may be staying to coach.


11.) 20 Jan 2018 10:30:14
I think Irwin was underrated.


12.) 20 Jan 2018 11:37:03
I always say both irwin and carrick underrated

Perhaps its more of them being an after thought when discussing great players but they actually both were.


13.) 20 Jan 2018 11:50:30
England under rated him. 34 caps when you see some of the players that got more caps its shocking.


14.) 20 Jan 2018 11:45:06
Loved Irwin. Sir Bobbys autobiography he writes that he was driving home from a game and something was niggling him and he couldn't work out was it was. then he sussed it. he had seen Irwin have a bad game - says it all really.


15.) 20 Jan 2018 13:06:55
If he was Italian he’d have been a legend.


16.) 20 Jan 2018 13:46:41
Mort, this is the same England team that decided Scholes was only worthy of 66 caps. Also 53 for Hoddle. Two of the best ever English midfielders. Says it all.


17.) 20 Jan 2018 19:27:40
Hoddle was a bit before,


 

 

14 Jan 2018 22:11:02
Just read Giggs has got the Wales job on a 4.5 year deal - how do you spell 'RISKY'?! Good luck to him, but I don't think he has what it takes, would be a shame to waste this generation of Welsh players.

The Beast

1.) 14 Jan 2018 22:14:50
Interview went like this:

FA: Are you Ryan Giggs?

Giggs: Yes

FA: Great, when can you start?


2.) 15 Jan 2018 00:15:17
to right all the young managers trying to work there way up must think we have no chance as mutch giggsy was a great player done nothing to deserve it.


3.) 15 Jan 2018 09:07:26
Hughes started the same. i'm sure he will do well. The knowledge of the game and his football brain will help him. Good luck Giggsy! Time to finally tear apart the international scene!


4.) 15 Jan 2018 00:15:17
to right all the young managers trying to work there way up must think we have no chance as mutch giggsy was a great player done nothing to deserve it.


 

 

27 Dec 2017 00:39:45
For those saying missing Pogba was the difference against City - I think we have seen as close to proof as possible that this is wishful thinking of the highest order.

We had a relatively easy fixture list for Christmas and we have blown it.

I saw something interesting on the comments section of a MSM website just now - I've pasted it below and I think it is very revealing: "In 2003 Mourinho said when he was at Porto and I quote " We have beaten the big spenders who pay millions of euros for one player and we have built a great team spending money doens't mean succes we have proved that" This was after he won the champions league now he says £300mil isn't enough. Shame On You Mourinho! "

It's not a nice time to be a Utd fan and I wonder how strongly he will be backed this window if at all.

The Beast

{Ed007's Note - In 2003 Mourinho's Porto played and cheated Celtic out of the UEFA Cup in Seville. It was 2004 they won the CL and if some tit from the msm can't get that right should we care what else he's got to say?}


1.) 27 Dec 2017 04:41:46
Beast. As you know, a agree with most of your views. However, football in 2003/ 2004 is a different animal from football in 2017. City and psg were just two little teams doing nothing. In fact, city had an Thai PM in charge of the club.
Since then, money has ruled the game. Clubs are getting vast amounts of money to spend.
I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just stating facts.


2.) 27 Dec 2017 05:38:50
Yes very true mate.

It's just shows me he will look for an excuse in everything, the financial difference between spend since he took over isn't that stark, especially when you consider the injuries to City. Especially as he makes this point after failing to beat a team made up of a squad probably costing less than he makes in a year!

I appreciate Jose can't go around qualifying every statement he makes, but he wants to have it both ways every single time I hear him try and explain away a poor result/ decision.

I don't like what he has turned into and the hypocrisy (all be it some time ago when he made his original comment) is ammunition to his critics. He reminds me of a spoilt brat, LVG was the 'entitled one', Jose is the 'ignorant one'. I just want the 'decent one'.


3.) 27 Dec 2017 05:57:55
Agree on that one Beast. Problem is that he wants to justify everything where a simple "we didn't play well today" or "the opposition played better" will suffice.
As Tony said yesterday, his demeanour is so poor at present that it is transferring itself to the players.
I agree with mourinho about the money being spent and United being a big club, supposedly, have to try and keep up. But this sort of stuff has to be said behind closed doors between him and the highly charismatic and wonderfully witty Woodward 😊.


4.) 27 Dec 2017 07:29:26
Since Sir Alex left, United have spent £648 million whilst City have spent £637 million, your spend has included the 3 most expensive players in Premier League history.


5.) 27 Dec 2017 08:56:10
City had a much better team when Jose and Pep were Put in place as managers. I beleive Jose is going in the right direction he still needs 2 more players maybe as mych as 4 once players leave this summer but we are on the right path, form is bad at minute not surprised how we have under performed the city game was a confidence strainer we need to get the bit between our teeth and sign a 10 for January, I want the Fekir from Lyon and think we will be in the market for him or similar.


6.) 27 Dec 2017 10:00:34
Been saying for a while he didn’t look happy, maybe he’s looking for an excuse to leave, not enough money spent always having a go at players and crowd publicly plus 18 month and his family still not moved up here yet, don’t look lik a long term project to me.


7.) 27 Dec 2017 10:10:56
Another day and another angle to criticise our manager. At the moment we are second in the league and yet we can all see we still do not have a finished article. Some people think bringing a nice new manager in is going to make all the difference, put us at the top, play pretty football, using players better after all the money we have spent. They want someone who says nice things and most of all isn’t called Mourinho.

Reality is that United under SAF had years of success based upon the class of 92, who on the whole aged and retired in the same period. We also relied on key, high profile signings made such as Rooney, Ronaldo, Rio from before the Glazers bought our club. After that big key signings were fewer, no value in the market was the excuse.

This is extremely relevant because long before SAF retired City and Chelsea were spending, Aguero, Hazard key important players, whilst we relied upon the old guard, even bringing Scholes out of retirement. It gave our main rivals a major head start. Then we appointed Moyes and LvG who didn’t spend money wisely.

Mourinho is right, we need to spend more, it is obvious why. SAF left a team that needed major work, one he hadn’t refreshed with top players properly or regularly, likely restricted by spending limits and we are now paying the price. The youth didn’t seriously produce since the CO92.

Instead of just looking at recent spending also take a look when City invested in DeBruyne and Aguero, it was pre Pep. City had a development plan, ready for when he arrived, I can’t see what ours was. We still lack top quality for the first team and I trust Jose to get it right.

One last point is that I am starting to read about non heralded changes at the club, people brought in since Jose arrived that may have a future positive impact, time will tell but none of us know whether Jose is using his contacts, knowledge of what is out there to improve the club, likely only Woodward, if he takes his head out of the accounts. Whatever Jose is doing in the underlying club processes it isn’t going to have an impact immediately so we need to lay off him and give him more time, support him with very significant major purchases.


8.) 27 Dec 2017 10:12:26
Many on here described City’s squad as ageing and in need of a lot of upgrades when Pep took over.

Players such as Toure, Clichy, Sagna, Kolarov, Nolito, Jesus, Hart and more all moved on or used sparingly so that doesn’t wash.

They’ve made quality additions pretty much all of yours the jury’s still out.


9.) 27 Dec 2017 11:05:32
Totally agree Redman!


10.) 27 Dec 2017 11:41:56
Since the 80’s money has ruled the game, we’ve all did our share of spending and denying united have us foolish, 30 million for Ferdinand? We’ve all spent big money it was just relative to the time, money tends to win you things, legacies like Real Madrid still spend big money.


 

 

20 Dec 2017 09:12:30
Shappy – Clearly I am on a hiding to nothing replying to your post as there seems to be a lot of positive things to say about it from our fellow posters (I don’t mind playing the pantomime villain because I think it is necessary and on a Man Utd supporter site taking the “positive” angle which actually is pretty “defensive” like our team will always garner praise – too many excuses being made for systemic failure! I would say that I try to keep my posts as snappy as possible, obviously I’d like to elaborate to explain the rationale behind my thoughts but that takes up both a lot of time and a lot of space, your essay below requires a detailed response, so for those of you that are interested, get a brew on and take a trip into the mind of the Beast!

Firstly, I do not disagree with all of your post and quite often I agree with several aspects of many of the posts people make, I’d guess it’s just 25% of the points people make that I take umbrage with and it’s only worth pointing out those differences as we have an “agree/ disagree” button if we agree with all of it. I don’t think it’s a case of all or nothing and this applies to posts as much as it applies to ways the club can move forward or for that matter the way we play – there can be grey areas. Sometimes we play well, more often we don’t. I’d just like to see more of the good stuff and less of the bad stuff like everyone I’m sure. It’s also very easy to twist what people say on here and to create a false narrative, I’m sure people don’t do this maliciously but it happens all the time because I assume people take what they want to from posts they see.

In direct response to your questions/ points in the order they appear and hopefully these comments may clarify some misconceptions or at the least provide legitimacy for my frequent criticisms:

1 – Correct I am critical of our playing style, this isn’t solely based on how we played previously under SAF (I have never said this was solely the case so you are guilty of taking poetic license here) . In fact I am fully aware that with age people tend to remember things slightly better than they actually were, we were on the whole far more entertaining throughout the entire SAF tenure than what we are now, despite this, especially since the start of the Premier League. We did play some poor football at times under SAF, his last season was terrible despite romping the league. A key point that people need to remember is that benchmarks move, most people are praising Jose or at least judging him in comparison to LVG or Moyes, SAF was judged on the season before the last one and that was often a very good one performance wise by his Man Utd. So the benchmarks have changed because people have trouble remembering too much detail from 5+ years ago and we have had quick changes of management recently so that is an obvious barometer. It also fits the narrative of ‘progress ‘ if you use a really low benchmark like the LVG era. So I’m saying the dice are loaded, I argued at times that having no manager would be better than having LVG in that seat, so is it any surprise that with hundreds of million spent and one of the best managers ever coming in that the teams has improved a bit since LVG?

2 – We have in fact played amazing football 2 or 3 times this season imo, the West Ham game, the Burton game were both fantastic to watch. So Jose has done it, Moyes had us play amazing football a couple of times as well, the Leverkusen game stands out for me. Even the man that gave me something like 100 disagrees when I called for him to be sacked (which is handily swept under the memory lapse carpet once everyone else jumps on board), had a couple of great performances mixed amongst the rubbish (LVG) . What this tells me is that we are capable of playing amazing football now, the players and manager are just incapable of replicating it often enough because of the way we set up to play – freaks happen and unfortunately the amazing performances are freaks, whereas for the majority of the SAF reign the freaks were the boring/ awful performances. This frustrates me, because we have proven we can play fast, free flowing, productive football, but for some reason the manager doesn’t want to do that or is no longer good enough to do that.

3 – We have had vast investment in the squad in recent years, yet we play like a bunch of strangers most games and much of this money has been wasted – we struggle to pass and move into space, it is often long balls and individual moments of brilliance that constitute an attack – very rarely do we see players on the same wave length. SAF and other managers make mistakes in the transfer market so this isn’t necessarily just a Man Utd problem. However I struggle to recall another team getting things so wrong with the money they have spent and the wastage, we look like an International team more often than not. We have signed some players that should have gotten us on the edge of our seats, but alas the style and tactics deployed by our recent manager has handicapped this – that is very frustrating.

4 – Yes I hammered LVG and would have preferred Jose to come in much sooner, haven’t I been proven right? Granted the Jose we got was the Jose that lost his way at Chelsea (which I hoped wouldn’t be the case), but that has still proven to be better than LVG hasn’t it? I am still unhappy because the Jose I wanted was the Jose that was 100% committed and was better than the Jose we currently have. People change, just like with LVG, most fans were pointing to his great record to justify his appointment and giving him time, well the LVG we signed up wasn’t the same guy that had all that success years before, I think we are seeing a toned down version of this with Jose. His time of being a pioneer is behind him, like most managers as they get older they get even more defensive, less risk takers, more stubborn and less committed.

5 – I’d like to interview candidates for the job, but going off what I have seen I would take the Monaco manager as I have said over a dozen times on this site. Based purely on the fact he has coached overseas, is young, has his team play football the way I like to see it played and he is relatively unknown, so other managers will not have studied him on the way to becoming managers (unlike Jose and LVG) . I don’t know if he was responsible for player recruitment or not, but whoever was at Monaco I would take them as well as clearly they have an eye for talent and the manager knew how to get the most out of that talent – something we do not see often.

6 – I remember it took a while for SAF to get things going, however he took over a club in a mess. The Man Utd of 1986 is a completely different animal to the Man Utd of 2016. Comparing the two things to justify what we are seeing now is nonsensical to me, especially as we have seen with teams like Leicester how quickly you can turn a team from relegation fodder into title winners with the right management and signings (for 1/ 10th of the money we spent) .

7 – Rome wasn’t built in a day. Correct, but it had a lot of bad Emperors and they were often taken out before they could do too much trouble, what happened to Rome as well – SAF built Rome, the past 3 managers are destroying it imo?! Jose isn’t known for building anything, he signs, does well (normally), then leaves under a cloud a few years later. The club wanted LVG to build up Rome again, the problem was he wasn’t capable, Jose was brought in because they needed immediate success to salvage massive sponsorship payments and to correct the damage that had occurred in recent years – the club are not building anything with Jose as manager, he is not a builder, he is a winner at all costs – which is why I am so critical, because City are pulling further ahead and winning the CL will be luck if it happens because every one of us would agree that we do not have the best team in Europe and Jose doesn’t look like he can change that unless he has £500m to spend, because we need a lot more quality to compensate for the way the manager sets us out. His one role will be to win things of importance, I don’t think that looks too likely at the moment.

8 – I don’t buy into fans earning the right to watch good football (or being spoiled), especially City fans. I simply look at the players we have, the manager we have, the support the manager has, the funds and our attacking pedigree as a club and make a call on whether or not we are doing as well as we should be. I am not as emotional about things as I used to be, partly on account of age but mostly because I have never felt so detached from the club. We have owners that don’t seem to have a clue about the football side (or care), Woody seems clueless as well, Jose seems uncommitted and has us playing negative tactics, the players for the most part seem unbothered (remember defeats where they are laughing and joking with opponents at the final whistle) . The entertainment levels are much lower watching us, and neutrals will say this as well – we are a very hard watch compared to recent history anybody without blinkers on will agree to this. I see no reason whatsoever why that has to be the case, it simply doesn’t have to be like this so why are we so quick to simply accept it as a necessary evil, says who?

9 – Pogba – we shouldn’t be so reliant on one player and this praise for him is hyped out of all proportion. How many great games has he played for us? How many times has he been the difference maker on the pitch (not off it)? We are not a one man team because Pogba turns up 1/ 5 games, but more than that recently, but we shouldn’t exagerate. He and DDG are our two world class talents without a doubt, but big players are missed by other teams and frankly I’m not happy putting all of our eggs in the Pogba basket, he hasn’t earned it yet. Besides it’s a bit of a poor indictment on the rest of the team and manager if we are so reliant on one player being both available and then on form – he has had more poor games in his Utd career than he has had good games imo, so saying a fit Pogba means we win stuff is wishful thinking only.

10 – We shouldn’t be wallowing in what City are doing, we should be rising to the challenge laid down. We should be using them as the current benchmark, simply throwing our arms in the air and saying “but City are record breakers” is not what winners do and that is exactly why we are not competing. We have much more going for us over City, we had a massive head-start that was blundered by Moyes and LVG, but Jose should be closing that gap with the investment he has had and the support, but we are falling farther behind – that is not acceptable to me, nor should it be to any of our fans.

11 – Comparing ourselves to where we were 2 years ago is like putting a heavyweight against a fly weight in a boxing match. I’m not surprised you want to do that because it makes us look good, I’d rather compare us to the holder of all the heavyweight belts at the moment and say why aren’t we holding those belts, how do we hold those belts, not “look we just pulverised a little kid in the ring, look how strong I am compared to that runt”.

So in summary, I see the progress from LVG, I was expecting a lot more. I see boring games most times I watch us, I see hoofing it far too often, little interchange between players, limited risks being taken, limited ambition on the pitch, fear whenever there is one goal in it and we approach 20 minutes to go almost every game. DDG making more saves than any of GK in the league so far and we have wasted so much money in recent years it is beyond disgusting.

We had a golden opportunity to bring glory back, but we are wasting it and our main rival domestically is capitalising in a phenomenal way, this adds insult to injury. We are falling further behind in the race, so I don’t see progress, I see regression when judged against the levels we should be competing at. There is far too much papering over cracks going on and kids will be switching off when we are on the TV, that will hurt us in 10 years time massively – we still have time to salvage what took a generation to build, but playing this negative football with a sad/ depressive manager is not the way to do it imo, shame as Jose 10 years ago would do a lot more with these tools, we need the next bright eyed, progressive version, but somebody that believes in attacking is the best way of defence, just like Barcelona, City, PSG and Bayern do.

I support Man Utd as much as any fan – I just don’t support the vision or approach, many ways to skin a cat of course, we are just choosing the most difficult and painful version for some crazy reason, and we are being subjected to every agonising moment of it! Shame.

The Beast

1.) 20 Dec 2017 10:56:06
Some really good points in there beast .
Biggest post I've ever seen.


2.) 20 Dec 2017 10:58:56
Beast, great reply and I really appreciate the time and effort you clearly put into that. It is hard to argue with much of what you have said there. I think we are two sides of the same coin, I lean towards the optimistic side whereas you lean towards the pessimistic side. Essentially we both want the same thing, but are looking at it from a different vantage point.

I think as you mentioned you don’t tend to reply to post you agree with which I think does add to the sour demeanor that sometimes comes across. As we only see angry disagreeable Beast.

I think your right in saying the clubs handling has been poor. For me this is the key reason I want a director of football at the club. We allowed Sir Alex to have complete control over the direction of the club, but he had earned that right over many years of service. Since then we have given creative control over to each manager and given them free reign. This has led to the swinging in different directions with each change of manager. We have owner who aren’t football people, a chief executive who isn’t a football person. We need someone from a footballing background who understands the game fully to control the direction of the club. You mention interviewing managers for the position, this is something I agree with. However, who would interview them and what traits would they be looking for? At the moment it would be Woodward, and judging on some of his appointments he has proven himself lacking in knowing what is needed.

I still disagree that we should have made a jump in improvement to such an extent we would be doing better than City are currently. No one could have predicted how good City would be this year, So I think it unfair to have expected Jose to have taken our side from 6th last season the record breaking this season. As it is he has United getting better results than Sir Alex managed in all bar a two seasons in his 26 year career with the club. That is impressive.

I think a lot of people make the mistake in watching the whole of the United game then the highlights of Spurs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea and City rather than the whole game. They then come to the conclusion that the other teams are playing better having only seen the best 5-8 minutes of their games and comparing that to the whole 90 minutes of ours.

Watching just the highlights and not the whole games we look as good as anyone else's highlights bar City’s.

Liverpool play very well in spells but make stupid mistakes and turn away from a scrap, and City are on another level. But Spurs, Chelsea and Arsenal are all playing a similar standard as ours, only we are doing it better as we are higher in the table. So I don’t buy this everyone is playing scintillating football and we are boring the arses off everyone no matter how much the scouse loving media try and say its so.


3.) 20 Dec 2017 11:39:30
Great post Beast, couldn't agree more.


4.) 20 Dec 2017 14:15:02
Beast. I made my point clear on the previous post. I agree with your post.
I think we can spin it any way we want but the fact is we're 11 points behind the leaders and they are not looking like losing as they have too much fire power.
We're also light years away in the way the club is being run. If we choose to ignore that, then we'll be playing second fiddle for years to come.
City, Chelsea and the others are not going to sit on their laurels while we argue the toss with other clubs and miss out because their valuation is £5m out like we did with perisic. Other teams identify and go and pay the selling team. End of.


5.) 20 Dec 2017 15:47:34
Attack, I agree the club needs to be run better. I don't think our decision makers have a real in depth understanding of football.
However, I don't think the just spend more money is the way to go about it. Chelsea tried that model when Abramovich first took over, he out bid us for players such as Robben and Essien. Some may argue he needed to at the time to build Chelsea into the team they are now. However they soon changed their transfer policy once they realised that they were being quoted 10m more than everyone else.
They still spend big on players they feel are worth it, but they don't spend silly money on above average players.

Some players are worth paying over the odds for others are not. Perisic is a very good player, but considering his age, his history and his current ability he just wasn't worth what they wanted for him. He is soon to be 29, will have no sell on value if he didn't succeed and has only really been playing at his current level for 18 months to two years. He didn't have the track record, he doesn't have the growth potential and even if he just maintained his level he wasn't and isn't playing at a 55m standard. Mkhitaryan was playing in Dortmund much better than Perisic has played at Inter, we paid 25m for Mkhitaryan, why would we pay 20m more for an older not quite as good version?


6.) 20 Dec 2017 18:47:27
Ugh. 'sell on value'. I hate that phrase, Shappy. We're one of the biggest clubs in the world, not West Ham or Newcastle. Sell on value should never, ever come into it when we're looking at new players.


7.) 20 Dec 2017 19:24:32
I kind of agree Stevie, however our club is owned by business men who will consider the value of an "asset".


 

 

19 Dec 2017 21:35:32
Hi Eds - I took some time this morning to write a detailed reply to Shappy's post (I'm 8 hrs behind GMT), but the site has updated several times since without it going up, just wondering if you have decided not to post it? I don't like my fellow posters to think I am ignoring them or to waste my time with detailed posts if they don't go up, so if you could give me a heads up I'd appreciate it. Obviously it's your site and your prerogative what you put up, but I'd just prefer to know the lay of the land if there is a problem with my post so i don't spend so much time on things like this in the future. Cheers.

The Beast

{Ed002's Note - I don’t know what happened. Here is the post.

19 Dec 2017 20:14:30

Shappy – Clearly I am on a hiding to nothing replying to your post as there seems to be a lot of positive things to say about it from our fellow posters (I don’t mind playing the pantomime villain because I think it is necessary and on a Man Utd supporter site taking the “positive” angle which actually is pretty “defensive” like our team will always garner praise – too many excuses being made for systemic failure! I would say that I try to keep my posts as snappy as possible, obviously I’d like to elaborate to explain the rationale behind my thoughts but that takes up both a lot of time and a lot of space, your essay below requires a detailed response, so for those of you that are interested, get a brew on and take a trip into the mind of the Beast!

Firstly, I do not disagree with all of your post and quite often I agree with several aspects of many of the posts people make, I’d guess it’s just 25% of the points people make that I take umbrage with and it’s only worth pointing out those differences as we have an “agree/ disagree” button if we agree with all of it. I don’t think it’s a case of all or nothing and this applies to posts as much as it applies to ways the club can move forward or for that matter the way we play – there can be grey areas. Sometimes we play well, more often we don’t. I’d just like to see more of the good stuff and less of the bad stuff like everyone I’m sure. It’s also very easy to twist what people say on here and to create a false narrative, I’m sure people don’t do this maliciously but it happens all the time because I assume people take what they want to from posts they see.

In direct response to your questions/ points in the order they appear and hopefully these comments may clarify some misconceptions or at the least provide legitimacy for my frequent criticisms:

1 – Correct I am critical of our playing style, this isn’t solely based on how we played previously under SAF (I have never said this was solely the case so you are guilty of taking poetic license here) . In fact I am fully aware that with age people tend to remember things slightly better than they actually were, we were on the whole far more entertaining throughout the entire SAF tenure than what we are now, despite this, especially since the start of the Premier League. We did play some poor football at times under SAF, his last season was terrible despite romping the league. A key point that people need to remember is that benchmarks move, most people are praising Jose or at least judging him in comparison to LVG or Moyes, SAF was judged on the season before the last one and that was often a very good one performance wise by his Man Utd. So the benchmarks have changed because people have trouble remembering too much detail from 5+ years ago and we have had quick changes of management recently so that is an obvious barometer. It also fits the narrative of ‘progress ‘ if you use a really low benchmark like the LVG era. So I’m saying the dice are loaded, I argued at times that having no manager would be better than having LVG in that seat, so is it any surprise that with hundreds of million spent and one of the best managers ever coming in that the teams has improved a bit since LVG?

2 – We have in fact played amazing football 2 or 3 times this season imo, the West Ham game, the Burton game were both fantastic to watch. So Jose has done it, Moyes had us play amazing football a couple of times as well, the Leverkusen game stands out for me. Even the man that gave me something like 100 disagrees when I called for him to be sacked (which is handily swept under the memory lapse carpet once everyone else jumps on board), had a couple of great performances mixed amongst the rubbish (LVG) . What this tells me is that we are capable of playing amazing football now, the players and manager are just incapable of replicating it often enough because of the way we set up to play – freaks happen and unfortunately the amazing performances are freaks, whereas for the majority of the SAF reign the freaks were the boring/ awful performances. This frustrates me, because we have proven we can play fast, free flowing, productive football, but for some reason the manager doesn’t want to do that or is no longer good enough to do that.

3 – We have had vast investment in the squad in recent years, yet we play like a bunch of strangers most games and much of this money has been wasted – we struggle to pass and move into space, it is often long balls and individual moments of brilliance that constitute an attack – very rarely do we see players on the same wave length. SAF and other managers make mistakes in the transfer market so this isn’t necessarily just a Man Utd problem. However I struggle to recall another team getting things so wrong with the money they have spent and the wastage, we look like an International team more often than not. We have signed some players that should have gotten us on the edge of our seats, but alas the style and tactics deployed by our recent manager has handicapped this – that is very frustrating.

4 – Yes I hammered LVG and would have preferred Jose to come in much sooner, haven’t I been proven right? Granted the Jose we got was the Jose that lost his way at Chelsea (which I hoped wouldn’t be the case), but that has still proven to be better than LVG hasn’t it? I am still unhappy because the Jose I wanted was the Jose that was 100% committed and was better than the Jose we currently have. People change, just like with LVG, most fans were pointing to his great record to justify his appointment and giving him time, well the LVG we signed up wasn’t the same guy that had all that success years before, I think we are seeing a toned down version of this with Jose. His time of being a pioneer is behind him, like most managers as they get older they get even more defensive, less risk takers, more stubborn and less committed.

5 – I’d like to interview candidates for the job, but going off what I have seen I would take the Monaco manager as I have said over a dozen times on this site. Based purely on the fact he has coached overseas, is young, has his team play football the way I like to see it played and he is relatively unknown, so other managers will not have studied him on the way to becoming managers (unlike Jose and LVG) . I don’t know if he was responsible for player recruitment or not, but whoever was at Monaco I would take them as well as clearly they have an eye for talent and the manager knew how to get the most out of that talent – something we do not see often.

6 – I remember it took a while for SAF to get things going, however he took over a club in a mess. The Man Utd of 1986 is a completely different animal to the Man Utd of 2016. Comparing the two things to justify what we are seeing now is nonsensical to me, especially as we have seen with teams like Leicester how quickly you can turn a team from relegation fodder into title winners with the right management and signings (for 1/ 10th of the money we spent) .

7 – Rome wasn’t built in a day. Correct, but it had a lot of bad Emperors and they were often taken out before they could do too much trouble, what happened to Rome as well – SAF built Rome, the past 3 managers are destroying it imo?! Jose isn’t known for building anything, he signs, does well (normally), then leaves under a cloud a few years later. The club wanted LVG to build up Rome again, the problem was he wasn’t capable, Jose was brought in because they needed immediate success to salvage massive sponsorship payments and to correct the damage that had occurred in recent years – the club are not building anything with Jose as manager, he is not a builder, he is a winner at all costs – which is why I am so critical, because City are pulling further ahead and winning the CL will be luck if it happens because every one of us would agree that we do not have the best team in Europe and Jose doesn’t look like he can change that unless he has £500m to spend, because we need a lot more quality to compensate for the way the manager sets us out. His one role will be to win things of importance, I don’t think that looks too likely at the moment.

8 – I don’t buy into fans earning the right to watch good football (or being spoiled), especially City fans. I simply look at the players we have, the manager we have, the support the manager has, the funds and our attacking pedigree as a club and make a call on whether or not we are doing as well as we should be. I am not as emotional about things as I used to be, partly on account of age but mostly because I have never felt so detached from the club. We have owners that don’t seem to have a clue about the football side (or care), Woody seems clueless as well, Jose seems uncommitted and has us playing negative tactics, the players for the most part seem unbothered (remember defeats where they are laughing and joking with opponents at the final whistle) . The entertainment levels are much lower watching us, and neutrals will say this as well – we are a very hard watch compared to recent history anybody without blinkers on will agree to this. I see no reason whatsoever why that has to be the case, it simply doesn’t have to be like this so why are we so quick to simply accept it as a necessary evil, says who?

9 – Pogba – we shouldn’t be so reliant on one player and this praise for him is hyped out of all proportion. How many great games has he played for us? How many times has he been the difference maker on the pitch (not off it)? We are not a one man team because Pogba turns up 1/ 5 games, but more than that recently, but we shouldn’t exagerate. He and DDG are our two world class talents without a doubt, but big players are missed by other teams and frankly I’m not happy putting all of our eggs in the Pogba basket, he hasn’t earned it yet. Besides it’s a bit of a poor indictment on the rest of the team and manager if we are so reliant on one player being both available and then on form – he has had more poor games in his Utd career than he has had good games imo, so saying a fit Pogba means we win stuff is wishful thinking only.

10 – We shouldn’t be wallowing in what City are doing, we should be rising to the challenge laid down. We should be using them as the current benchmark, simply throwing our arms in the air and saying “but City are record breakers” is not what winners do and that is exactly why we are not competing. We have much more going for us over City, we had a massive head-start that was blundered by Moyes and LVG, but Jose should be closing that gap with the investment he has had and the support, but we are falling farther behind – that is not acceptable to me, nor should it be to any of our fans.

11 – Comparing ourselves to where we were 2 years ago is like putting a heavyweight against a fly weight in a boxing match. I’m not surprised you want to do that because it makes us look good, I’d rather compare us to the holder of all the heavyweight belts at the moment and say why aren’t we holding those belts, how do we hold those belts, not “look we just pulverised a little kid in the ring, look how strong I am compared to that runt”.

So in summary, I see the progress from LVG, I was expecting a lot more. I see boring games most times I watch us, I see hoofing it far too often, little interchange between players, limited risks being taken, limited ambition on the pitch, fear whenever there is one goal in it and we approach 20 minutes to go almost every game. DDG making more saves than any of GK in the league so far and we have wasted so much money in recent years it is beyond disgusting.

We had a golden opportunity to bring glory back, but we are wasting it and our main rival domestically is capitalising in a phenomenal way, this adds insult to injury. We are falling further behind in the race, so I don’t see progress, I see regression when judged against the levels we should be competing at. There is far too much papering over cracks going on and kids will be switching off when we are on the TV, that will hurt us in 10 years time massively – we still have time to salvage what took a generation to build, but playing this negative football with a sad/ depressive manager is not the way to do it imo, shame as Jose 10 years ago would do a lot more with these tools, we need the next bright eyed, progressive version, but somebody that believes in attacking is the best way of defence, just like Barcelona, City, PSG and Bayern do.

I support Man Utd as much as any fan – I just don’t support the vision or approach, many ways to skin a cat of course, we are just choosing the most difficult and painful version for some crazy reason, and we are being subjected to every agonising moment of it! Shame.


1.) 19 Dec 2017 21:50:31
Thanks Ed appreciated.


2.) 19 Dec 2017 22:24:10
Well written response Beast and I agree with much of what you say mate.


3.) 19 Dec 2017 22:41:31
Beast, simple question mate, would you prefer winning trophies our current way or have the monaco manager and take a gamble? i'm sorry if you answer this in your post. I didn't get chance to read it all.


4.) 19 Dec 2017 22:50:55
beast i think you should be playing solitaire than watching football.


5.) 19 Dec 2017 22:54:44
Gamble, because do we look like winning the league this way or the CL? Football is meant to be entertaining, winning is for those that benefit from the win (financial/ career/ satisfaction), of course we all derive satisfaction from our team winning, but it is momentary, the memories most of us have are not watching us lift a trophy, it's the quality moments, the feeling of being part of something special, and that comes from being entertained, watching excellence is pleasurable to most people. Watching Utd is boring for the most part now, it's anti-football, a perversion of the game imo. Safety first is for the under-dog and legitimate under-dog, not the team that chooses to be an under-dog when they should be top-dog.


6.) 19 Dec 2017 23:21:41
Beast, I can't agree that we have yet had an opportunity to bring glory back. We might have had, had we never hired Moyes on SAF's and then followed up with LVG. But that's what happened and you can't blame Mourinho for any of that. What happened before his tenure including the amount of money we wasted on overpriced players who did not fit into any overall plan is squarely the responsibility of the club itself. Nor can you blame the failure to modernize the club, nor our inability or refusal to replace any of our very best players with those of equal quality during the latter stages of SAF's tenure, which I believe is at the heart of the struggles we have faced.

The fact is that City have had a consistent program of development and an open checkbook in place since they were purchased, whereas for most of the Glazer period ours was apparently closed thanks to the enormous debt servicing requirements. Managerial changes at the Etihad have been proactive, part of a fine tuning process within a long term structural plan, whereas ours have been largely reactive. You can't blame Mourinho for that, nor the financial reality that Champions League qualification is a requirement.

So, the United you see today is primarily the result of a set of circumstances that developed in the period before this manager's control. Okay, so the purse strings have now been opened, but City have still spent more than us over the last couple of years, and we're still at the beginning of formulating the next United. Recruitment of any player has been tortuous, partly, I think, because the inner difficulties at the club, which have been obvious to all, and made United a relatively unappealing destination for top talent. That will only change when we are seen to have stabilized the club, and perceived to be a perennial contender once again.

Expansive football requires the right personnel. But the right personnel will only be attracted to a club culture that is built on an enduring winning philosophy and because this is so, winning is quite correctly a priority over style. I wish we were further along but am delighted that we are in 2nd position, 7 point clear of 4th, with 39 goals scored and with a record that is on a par with many previous champions. I don't think we could or should expect any more at this moment in time. If we end up second and look like we're on the up, then next summer should see the purchase of 2 or 3 more top players to fill in the obvious gaps, and in particular to add midfield strength making us less reliant on Pogba. But in the meantime, I really don't think your argument that we haven't made any progress holds any water whatsoever.


7.) 19 Dec 2017 23:30:47
beast i do not listen to pundits but there will be no dominance in football like liverpool or united as the foxes proved there is to mutch money involved sit back and enjoy the ride life is to short.


8.) 19 Dec 2017 23:43:33
Thanks for the response Shaw. I'm not putting this all on Jose, but I don't think he has a plan to suddenly switch his style, there will be no "right" time to do this. So my fear about Jose is that we are building towards what exactly? Finishing 2nd every season playing mind numbing football. City have improved more than we have, so how do we make that difference up with negative football that will not attract many elite players? We won't win the league playing this way because Man City do exist and can attract players that we don't.

My whole post is primarily focused on the different benchmarks being used. Of course we have made progress compared to recent seasons in the world of Man Utd - we have spent hundreds of million during that time so I would hope and expect to see the club doing better than it was. But I am looking at the benchmark of progress being external, how have we progressed compared to Man City, PSG for example? Yes they have massive amounts of money, but I fear that had we the same money we would be in a similar position, because let's face it, we have wasted over 50% of the funds we have spent in recent years and many top players do not seem to want to sign for us.


9.) 20 Dec 2017 00:40:57
Ok mate respect your honest opinion.


10.) 20 Dec 2017 09:21:34
Hey Beast,

I actually think you make some excellent points but if I may be so bold, your use of hyperbole weakens rather than strengthens your arguments, because the listener/ reader only focusses on the hyperbole and not the good point. I mean the following quotes are only two of many examples from your posts.

"we are being subjected to every agonising moment of it! Shame. "

"a perversion of the game. "

Not that you're asking for my advice, but if you toned this down you'd be on less hidings to nothing.

Personally, I haven't used hyperbole in a million years. ;)


11.) 20 Dec 2017 09:50:31
Beast. First of all, thank you for writing the post. It must have taken a lot of time and effort to do so. So hopefully most will treat it seriously as it deserves it.
For me, I agreed with Shappy on a few points, but the post you have wrote should be "the post of the year". I agree with it in its entirety.
I especially Mark out points 8, 10 and 11.
On point 8, you rightly cited the fact that the owners are not football people (A point I've been saying for years) . Also, Woodward hasn't got a clue. And the fact that our manager doesn't seem as up for it or as emotional as he was during his stints at Real, Inter and his first years at Chelsea.
On point 10, I fully agree. I've been saying for some time that we can't allow City to keep outspending us and out performing us on all areas. Some posters even got upset thinking I was heaping too much praise on City. That was not the intention. The intention is to make people aware that there's a new monster and we've either got to stand up and fight or be eaten. It seems that the latter is being allowed to happen. Even Some of our own supporters seem to think it's ok that we're second and as long as we're 8 points ahead of 4th place, then it's fine. Well, its not fine in my book as being second and 11 points behind the leaders might be success for Arsenal or Spurs or Burnley, but it is not success for United.
Point 11, as I said in a previous post, it's no good saying we're improving in comparison to previous seasons. Are we improving against City, Real, Barca, psg or Bayern? I think the most ardent United fan will be lying through their shiny teeth to answer positively to that question. There are quite a few posters on here who are still of the opinion that City's bubble will just burst, aka Newcastle a few years back. I'm afraid that's not going to happen. Just like the great United sides, city have too many good players and a very experienced manager. Yes, they might lose a couple of games but they're not going to blow up and disintegrate into thin air. So the point is to recognize their improvement and try to emulate it and better it.
Like you, I've been watching United for a very long time, and like you, I go to my seat in the Singing Section and we stand up and sing throughout the match. And like you, I've never been so nonplussed and disillusioned about the way the club is being run.
This is huge business, but it is also an entertainment business. Some clubs are managing to be successful and entertaining. But our club has owners and people in charge with only material success as a priority, because they know that no matter what happens, the fans will turn up and the profits will surge. To mix entertainment with success, you need management who care about all aspects. Sadly, this is not the United way at present, and even more worryingly, some of our fans are almost content with it. That cannot be allowed to happen.
Once again, thank you for an excellent post Beast, the best I've read on this site.


12.) 20 Dec 2017 10:17:09
I agree with s lot of what both Shappy and Beast said. We are improving but the key for me is whether Jose is the same coach he was or whether he is now more of a Wenger - he’s been found out and will not hit the same heights again. As for comparisons with City, out of the top 6 I think the other 5 play more exciting faster attacking football than we do. Now I know I will get shouted down as we are second and have scored more than all bar City but I’m just saying what I see.

However, I do think we are only a couple of players away from being there, assuming Jose I sent prepared to be expansive. I don’t agree with the Rashford / Martial rotation as it isn’t giving either of them a decent run. They probably play wondering at what point the will be subbed for the other. Lukaku has an excellent scoring record yet now he’s playing for a to side the goals have dried up, that needs urgently fixing.

The worry is we are playing catch up, other top European teams will not be standing still so we need to accelerate somehow.


 

 

 

The Beast's rumour replies

 

Click To View This Thread

16 Jan 2018 02:05:30
Miki, Smalling, £35m - Oezil, Sanchez and Bellerin - make it happen!

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

16 Jan 2018 02:04:16
Replacement for Hazard is my guess. Hopefully just BS, but if they are in the mix it will be a problem for us I think - these foreigners seem to love London, I doubt they spend much time partying, learning the history and shops you can find anywhere - it's just convenience and the 'image'.

I genuinely don't see the draw in London for a professional footballer over other major cities in the UK.

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

16 Jan 2018 02:01:11
I'd just love for the club to come out and say something like, "there is zero interest in signing Ronaldo - there hasn't been interest in quite some time. Hopefully Ronaldo and/ or his representatives will cease disrespected the club and supporters that have been pivotal and supportive throughout his career. "

There comes a point where enough is enough. Even when it isn't coming directly from him, the people behind him are forever trying to get MORE, pathetic!

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

24 Dec 2017 19:55:26
I think we needed leadership yesterday and it was severely lacking. Who picked the captain? Who sat and took no ownership as things were starting to crumble and players were unsure of what to do?

Yes the players are responsible in many ways, but Jose had the experience and know-how to counter the pathetic Leicester threat that emerged - he just sat there and left it to our leaderless team to try and figure out for themselves - this wasn't training it was a really important match. Jose is the most to blame, and the players as always were found wanting when it mattered.

I felt sick watching it.

The Beast

{Ed025's Note - you can be a bit of a moaner beast, but i agree on that mate..


 

 

Click To View This Thread

18 Dec 2017 19:39:00
I think you are comparing the wrong things and using the wrong benchmarks.

What you are saying in a nutshell is because a guy beat up 10 people last weekend, and this weekend he only beat up 5 people he is becoming a better citizen, so quit complaining. There is no denying he is behaving better of course, but is it good enough compared to the guy that beats nobody up (City)?

We need to compare ourselves against City at the minute, both in terms of points on the board and the manner of obtaining those points. We are a hard watch, grinding out wins, shutting up shop against any half decent side we play against and I can't see how much more improvement is available if we continue to go down this path - it's the same performance virtually every single week (horrible to watch) . Yes we will pick up the occasional fortunate win against decent opposition (Arsenal, to a lesser extent Spurs), but on the whole our focus is on not getting beat, our focus prior to the LVG/ Moyes debacle was "go and beat" whoever we play for the most part.

So yes we are doing better on paper, but I think we are using clever accounting techniques and we are the footballing equivalent of Enron at the minute. The manager doesn't seem committed, players don't seem on-board, hard to deny we are playing long ball more than we should, slow football when we don't resort to hoofing it, it's a slippery slope that requires £150m+ every summer just to keep it going it seems. Most of us would agree we need 4-5 world class signings to compete with City still, how much will that cost and would they want to play for a team that plays our way? Then can Jose's negative tactics compete with Pep's tactics if we do get his ideal players, (not to mention our European rivals)? If Pep was managing us and Jose was managing City, I genuinely think the Utd would be top of the league, it is a massive factor unfortunately and I think it's too easily overlooked - not sure what the answer is but Jose is not going to overturn City going down the path he is taking in my opinion.

Our main rival has improved more than we have, that is a massive problem for me, because they already has a big head-start.

The Beast

 

 

 

The Beast's banter replies

 

Click To View This Thread

21 Jan 2018 00:59:17
hmm, how hard can it be to turn up with a blank cheque? Id' reserve praise until he is toe-toe with another clubs rep, with the same money to spend - that's when skill is involved.

Nevertheless it's nice to be signing a truly world class player in his prime.

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

20 Jan 2018 22:53:18
Valencia is not very good defensively imo. He is good at the raw parts of the game like Jones and Rojo are, but his positional sense is shocking, his end product is often limited as well and his ability to think past the 2nd or 3rd ball is woeful (basically I don't think he has a footballing brain) . His pace does get him out of a lot of problems, but against quality we get found out and he is a major issue. Doesn't happen often, but if we release more midfielders forward he is an issue.

I like him, he is a very good squad player - but we are a very defensive team on the whole which helps cover up a lot of the weaknesses we have back there. Whenever a team attacks us properly we look all over the place, player like Blind, Rojo, Smalling and Jones to some degree are also flattering to deceive because of our defensive shape. He is no Dennis Irwin for me, more of a less injury prone and less rash Rafael, without the technique Rafael had.

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

20 Jan 2018 06:16:35
AJH - I think everyone with a bit of knowledge appreciates the job Carrick did, and for the past 10 years whenever his name comes up it always has "under rated" next to it. Who is under rating him?

It's like me saying "all these people saying we shouldn't sign Sanchez because he isn't good enough are wrong". Well I haven't read anyone say Sanchez is no good, I'd just be saying something for effect. Carrick is the most talked about player in the "under rated" bracket in the history of football. That in itself means he isn't under rated surely?

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

20 Jan 2018 04:31:09
Boom!

The Beast

 

 

Click To View This Thread

19 Jan 2018 02:13:39
David Luiz perhaps, he is perfect for playing out from the back and maximising on most teams playing with one upfront. He can be erratic, but I think he would be a revelation back there with Bailly. Plus we could probably get him cheaper than we normally would.

The Beast