Manchester United banter 81717

 

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20 Feb 2019 12:34:39
I see the Pogba debate has opened up again. Funny how scoring a few goals changes things. Three months ago most people wouldn't have been bothered if Pogba was sold, some would have even been happy.

It's a tricky one as in this form you would be loathed to lose him. He has become the difference maker that his talent always suggested he could be.

But if he wants out then it is hard to keep him. I understand the view that we need major "retooling" this summer and adding a Pogba replacement to that list makes life harder.

Some might even suggest asking him to stay one more year like we did with Ronaldo.

I don't think that would be a good idea in this situation. Ronaldo has always been a hard worker and he clearly has the utmost respect for Sir Alex so we could ask him to stay one more year and be sure he would give just as much.

Pogba on the other hand has shown that when he isn't happy he cannot produce his best form.

The other issue is we are starting a rebuild this summer, with a new manager whoever that ends up being, and a new direction, hopefully with a DoF in place by then as well.

Pogba needs the team to be built around him to get the best out of him. Therefore, it makes no sense starting to build a team around a player who will be leaving in a year's time.

Keeping him beyond this summer means building a team around a player who will be leaving or not doing so and therefore not get the best out of Pogba which means keeping a potentially disruptive player who won't be able to play at his best and bring down his value while paying him huge wages.

I see no situation in which keeping him this summer while he wants to leave as being a benefit to the club.

Let him go, trying a get the best deal possible, rebuild and move on.

Liverpool sold their best player in Coutinho and have expertly moved on. So it can be done.

Agree10 Disagree6

20 Feb 2019 13:19:14
I don't think the team needs to be built around pogba, we just need to buy a higher quality of player. We have one of those top quality players in pogba and it wouldn't be wise to actively look to sell him.

For example if we buy a top quality centre half and pogba stays another season then leaves, that centre half doesn't suddenly become a pointless signing because pogba is not there. Same for the right wing, central midfield and full back, these are positions we need to improve regardless is pogba stays or not.

If he wants to leave then fair enough, a club will have to pay a huge sum of money to get him as we did in 2016 to secure his services. I don't see many clubs paying that for a central midfielder who is still, rightly or wrongly, perceived to be ill disciplined and doesn't work hard enough.

My prediction is that by circumstance (because no one wants to pay the money for him) pogba stays at united and signs a new contract with a pay rise.

Reality is simply we need more signings like pogba and less like fred. Most of our signings have been freds which is why we are way behind city, psg etc.

20 Feb 2019 13:38:30
DSG, to a point your right that signing a top class CB shouldn't be affected by Pogba.

However, with Matic on his last legs, and Pogba and Herrera being the only other quality options in midfield we are severely lacking in strength and depth in the heart of our team. Who we buy in those positions will directly be effected by whether Pogba stays or goes. Signing 1 or 2 midfiders to work with Pogba or signing them to replace him would mean vastly different kinds of midfielder being signed.

Plus as I have pointed out Pogba only plays well when happy. If he is denied his move this summer then we could see the Pogba of last season or from the first half of this season. Then hindering the progression of our midfield for Pogba would seem a stupid decision.

20 Feb 2019 14:14:49
Agreed shappy. Let him go.

Plus, we can't just forget what we've seen from him in the last 12 month's.

It's great to see him enjoy himself and play so well but like ed002 has said, he wants out.

Funny that as I was led to believe by many 'experts' and various posters on here that Jose was the problem and reason he wants out.

If he still is looking for a way out now, was Jose the real problem or just a scape goat?

What happens if he is kept and starts to affect the dressing room with his bad mood. He seems to be incredibly influential.

20 Feb 2019 14:28:42
I don’t think many teams can afford him and I expect him to stay. And if he does go to Juve then I hope we ask for Dybala in return - would be ideal at the top of the midfield diamond behind two strikers.

{Ed002's Note - It won't be Dybala.}

20 Feb 2019 14:29:32
Shaps
Come on, you said before xmass pogba was a virus and needed sold . Now he is playing well you are just coming from it at a different angle.
Only plays well if he is happy? Lot of players like that . But have tactics etc got nothing to do with it . It seems to me a lot of our players seem to be playing well as does the team with a diffetent system .

I also don't think the team needs to be built around pogba . Pogba has a role within a system if we sell him we just buy a different player to carry out thd same role . Also there is no guarantee the new signing plays well, settles at united etc .
We wil see in the summer but i will be surprised if he leaves .

20 Feb 2019 14:46:34
Jred, where am I saying any different? I said before Christmas he needed to be sold and I'm saying the same thing now. That seems like consistency to me.

Also where is the evidence against the idea that he needs to be happy to play well?

Yes the system has changed, and it has been built around him. That makes him happy and gives him the platform to play well.

Personally I don't think teams do too well on the whole when they are built around a specific player. Totti at Roma and Gerrard at Liverpool are examples of teams suffering due to them being built around an individual. The only side that it has worked for is Real Madrid with Ronaldo, yet this only really worked in the UCL and fell flat in the league.

When you build a side around one player your team is at the mercy of that players form. Bad day for him bad day for the team. Then what do you do when he's injured or suspended? Or as we saw against PSG when that player is marked out of the game?

Pogba has the talent to be one of the best players on the planet, yet he needs the team to be built around him because he fails to grasps simple concepts or he sees them as benieth him.

His best ever form has come in the last month or two, when Ole has played him in a free role and has had to get the rest of the team to adapt around that role.

You can't do that at the highest level of you want to challenge on multiple fronts.

20 Feb 2019 17:30:48
It’s pretty simple, if he doesn’t want to be here then let’s all move on but let’s not take a Juve fringe player as part ex.

Ole seems to have built a great spirit and if PP doesn’t want to be part of that then I guess that’s his choice (or his agent’s) . Spirit, team ethos, commitment to the cause are all major influences and you can see Liverpool and City have that whilst Chelsea clearly do not, we need good players but we also need everyone completely committed. If he can’t get back in the team then I guess Lukaku will soon tire of being a sub and we may see a problem there.

I think Pogba is a very good player who is in rich form but over the last 3 years he has mostly been disappointing. If that was down to Jose then he now has a Manager who trusts him an is getting the best out of him. Only he knows his motivations for wanting to leave.

We’ve had a great run but we still need some surgery and if we lose a couple then possibly major surgery, we can only hope that we target the right players as we have wasted so much money in recent years.

20 Feb 2019 18:17:16
I think it's definitely built to suit pogba.

We are too over reliant upon Herrera and matic to do the donkey work so that pogba can do his bit. That's not a team system. that's a system built for pogba.

That's okay if he wants to stay but he doesn't so he needs to be sold IMO.

20 Feb 2019 18:45:51
Pogba will do what he wants to do. Playing well he is an asset to the team playing poorly and not trying will make him a hindrance.
If he wants to leave that's his choice but keeping him against his will could mean a repeat of what we saw this season early on.
Ed and the permenant coach need to sit with him and have a very straight conversation and get it sorted early one way or the other.
It won't be the end of the world either way.
If he stays and is committed 100% then great if he stays and is not then that's when the problems will start.

20 Feb 2019 21:23:08
This is madness, Pogba has been fundamental to the way we've been playing recently. Ole has set the team up around him and he's delivered. He's been nothing short of magnificent, goals, assist, power, creativity, please don't underestimate just how good he's been.

If we were to appoint Ole in the summer and sell Pogba we're simply setting him up to fail. Game changers like Pogba are hard to replace. He's become our talisman under Ole, a real leader, he's making the difference and we need to keep him certainly whilst the likes of Martial and Rashford continue to develop, mature and become more consistent.

Pogba looks happy to me, he's been given the platform to play, the team is being built around him in order to get the best out of him. I've seen enough now to suggest that we're on the verge of something pretty special if we just keep our nerve. Ole is playing the type of football that is perfectly suited to most of the players in our squad. In Pogba, Rashford, Martial and Lingard our future is bright. In the coming years I truly believe they can become a formidable attacking quartet capable of bringing the top honours back to the Club.

I simply cannot foresee a scenario where Pogba is sold this summer especially if Ole is appointed as manager. He's still under contract until 2021 with the option of another year. Whether he wants to leave is open to conjecture but I don't see him trying to force his way out. I believe he'll be here beyond the summer and the Club will try to negotiate a new contract. If no agreement can be reached and he wants to more then summer 2020 looks much more likely to me.

With some sensible recruitment in the summer I see no reason why we shouldn't be able to challenge on all fronts next year. If the team is built around him, he continues to play, we are challenging at the top and the Club offer him a handsome contract I wouldn't wave him off just yet!

20 Feb 2019 21:42:27
DLIB have you been away when ed002 has been posting.

Pogba clearly wants to leave. Nobody is doubting how fantastically well pogbas been recently but he wants out? You happy to keep a player that clearly wants out, cause I'm not. If you don't want to be at united then on your bike.

As a supporter I only want players who are 100 percent invested and committed.

Yes pogbas been great recently but the previous 2 years, yes 2 years, he has been pretty underwhelming.

Now it's a given he wants to leave. So the only madness I'm seeing is your post above.

20 Feb 2019 22:14:56
You guys here are a joke. When I read some comments, I get embarrassed.

I can't believe all this nonsense.

When Pogba supposedly "downed" tools, everyone was on his case (including me) . The only difference is that I called a spade - blamed the manager and all the players. Now people are acting like Pogba was the only underperforming player in the last two years forgetting that De Gea is the only player that can hold his head high within that period - this includes the management team.



Now there's a turnaround by the new manager, his staff and the entire team.

But of course, a few players are still average and yet to fully channel out their true qualities (Eg Shaw, Mata, Young and Fred - though he's still new) and some are very poor Eg Sanchez but I'm not getting a wiff of that from you guys.


But of course, the scapegoat has to take all the beatings doesn't he? Even though he has been the catalyst to our resurgence.

Some of you guys will always find a reason to bash Pogba. You hate that he's playing well, succeeding, celebrating like he does, the dance and all at your "darling club" don't you? Many wish he would be playing badly so as to find reason to attack him.


Sanchez? No problems, Shaw? I didn't notice, Matic? Nah. But pogba
.


And to those who said Ed002 said Pogba wanted to leave, I hope you can remember he also said Pogba was OFFERED AROUND! How on earth can you try to sell a player and expect him to want to stay? Keeping in mind that you didn't sell him because you couldn't get buyers.

Even Messi will try to leave Barcelona if they tried to ship him out like an expired vegetable.


I hate the toxicity here that's why I try to stay away for a while. I can't for the love of me understand why people cannot enjoy a good thing while it lasts but always have negative thoughts or keep speculating with wanton negativity.


It's disappointing and annoying.

It is a disgrace.

20 Feb 2019 22:41:10
Angel - Firstly I'm not convinced Pogba wants to leave and there are a lot of factors to consider. Whilst he remains under contact the Club hold all the aces certainly in the short term anyway.

A lot can change in football, players can change their minds, re consider their options. If he's playing well, the team is built around him and they offer him a bumper new contract why can't he stay?!

We were told Martial was adamant he wanted out yet he's signed a new contract?! Nothing is certain.

I'm only offering my opinion. I just don't think he'll leave in the summer. The fact he's had a brilliant World Cup, his current form, combined with his age and contact situation I just don't see any team being capable or even willing to meet his valuation.

Like I said I'd like us to appoint Ole, build our team around Pogba and work on negotiating him a new contract over the next 12 months. I don't think it's a forgone conclusion that he wants out and I'm excited to see what we are capable of in the coming years with an attacking quartet of Pogba, Martial, Rashford and Lingard combined with some intelligent recruitment. In my opinion Pogba remains crucial in moving the Club forward over the next few years along with the likes of De Gea, Rashford and Martial.

I've heard the debate around him not being committed or choosing when he wants to play but I simply don't buy it. We're talking about an elite professional sportsman, a proven winner. I doubt the man likes losing a game of snap never mind a game of football. I don't buy the idea that the player will just down tools and give up if he doesn't get a move. That's insulting disrespectful and not based on fact. People forget that even under Mourinho he was still our most important player. The atmosphere under Mourinho had turned toxic. Nobody was playing well. He didn't seem to understand his role and he certainly wasn't played in a system designed to his strengths. I don't see anyone criticising Kante for his apparent lack of form at Chelsea. Nobody can believe that the best defensive midfielder in the world is being asked to perform a more creative role he's not accustomed. Didn't similar happen to Pogba under Mourinho. Can anybody tell me what his role was under Mourinho because we all know it under Ole. It's madness!

In 12 games under Ole Pogba has scored 9 goals and provided 6 assists. This is from a midfielder. If this form is replicated over a season then for the first time since Ronaldo we have a genuine world class performer on our hands. If Martial and Rashford continue to improve as well we'll have some team! Of course that just my opinion! Time will be the judge when all's said and done pal.

20 Feb 2019 23:03:10
Yaz. Who is that rant aimed at?
The vast majority would want pogna to stay and continue playing well.
But posters are making a valid comment that if he wants to leave and played like he did in the late part of last season and early this, and that if he isn't committed then it would be a risk to make him stay against his wishes.
He looks to be enjoying himself maybe he will change his mind but if he wants to leave are you suggesting that we make him stay and have a potential split dressing room again. ?
That rarely works imo.
As i said he needs to be honest and declare his intentions and wishes to the coach and board at the end of the season.
I hope he stays if he is 100% committed but if he is not then there is no point in him being here wishing and playing like he wants to be somewhere else.
Do you think that's unreasonable.

20 Feb 2019 23:11:07
Dilb i agree with a lot of that. For me the issue is simple if he wants to stay and imo he should want to stay then its simple.
But if he really wants to leave and expresses a strong desire to do so then we have a problem to confront.
Lots of players have wanted to leave and been talked around in the past. I think at his best he is worth trying to talk around money usually works. I believe he wants to win the big trophies if we do build on the bones of a strong team then he can achieve that here.

20 Feb 2019 23:56:45
Yaz,

That’s the best rant on here for ages, I’ve literally no idea what your point is or if it makes any sense but it gave me a laugh.

21 Feb 2019 00:44:54
Ken - I fully agree pal and if Pogba is adamant he wants to move then we have a decision to make but I wouldn't let him go without a fight!

All I'm saying is I don't believe it's as black and white as that. We get too wrapped up around comments like "Players wanting to play for the Club". We're talking about professional sportsmen. They are not fans and we should remember that. Many factors come into the equation. I certainly believe that Pogba respects Utd and if Ole gets the job, the team is built around his strengths and he's offered a big new contract he could be persuaded to stay!

For some reason many of our fans remain deeply suspicious of Pogba. They think he's flakey and chooses when he wants to play. I don't agree with this. I think he's a winner, a leader, I think he's a brilliant player and consummate professional. I also think it comes from fans not really understanding what type of player he is.

People have their own expectations about what midfielders should do and Pogba doesn't fit that mould. I think Ole understands that and knows what he's capable of. Yes he needs runners and defensive cover at times but I still think he works hard and is also capable of filling in defensively when required. If we've got a player capable of scoring 15-20 goals from midfield and providing a similar number of assists then we've got a real talent on our hands. How many midfielders in world football can score that type of headed goal he scored against Chelsea?

Sometimes players deserve to have teams built around them and I think Pogba is that type of player. Certainly at Utd anyway. 9 goals in 12 games from midfield justifies that assertion. He can be the leader of our young and exciting new attack. Fergi made allowances for the likes of Cantona and Ronaldo and he reaped the rewards.

The boy is box office, he's a special talent and he's now showing us all exactly what he's capable of. He's definitely worth fighting for in my opinion.

21 Feb 2019 05:01:10
Agree with DLIB.

Yesterday I said that first time a United manager is playing to Pogba's strength.
The whole team is reaping the rewards of it.

He has some unique qualities. Physically he is well built and can help out in both boxes in set piece situations. None of our current midfielders (Herrera, Matic, Fred, Andreas, Mctominay) can play those defense splitting pass to forwards which are capable of winning matches.

When whole team understands each others roles in this current style, we will be a real threat. The pressing and intensity will go a step above next season when players adapt to this style.
And Pogba is fundamental to the counter attacking style.
He can initiate those attacks with his pin point passes.

Hopefully, he can see the progress our team is making on the pitch and stays for the long term.
A top class Centre back, right back and an elite right sided forward would push us up with the best teams in the world.

21 Feb 2019 11:33:10
Spot on DLIB. There aren’t many midfielders in world football that can get 15-20 goals a season. Pogba was almost Lampard esque against Chelsea. I am really enjoying watching him play at the moment. I just want to enjoy it while it lasts. I can’t seeing him moving on but Ed002 has told us he wants to go. I guess we just see what happens. In the meantime let’s enjoy what is unfolding in front of our eyes. Because both pogba and united are a joy to watch at the moment.

21 Feb 2019 11:45:35
Lol gds2, it gave me a giggle too, yaz if pogba wants out, let him go, no point having a player that wants out.

21 Feb 2019 12:41:46
I've got to say that Sanchez has had plenty of criticism especially in the last week.

If pogba wants to go then he goes. No point in keeping players who don't want to be here. But this i'd the happiest he's looked in his time here and I think he'll stay. Also I really see anyone coming in for him at the money likely to be involved.

21 Feb 2019 14:51:08
The Yaz lesson in how to win friends and influence people. Start your post with, 'you guys are a joke'.

21 Feb 2019 15:00:14
Stevie 😂. Still don’t understand who yaz’s Rant is about. If I could guess I would say he might be a fan of pogba 😂.







 

 

 
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