28 Jul 2018 19:20:12
Are we an "elite" club any more?
Yes, 600M followers and the history but have our board allowed us to step back from the top and accepted commercial success as the nirvana? I see Willian and Peresic being touted as the answer whilst the other elite clubs hold an ace, an inspiring world class talent that makes the team better than the rest. City have DeBruyne, Silva, Aguero, Chelsea Hazard (for now), Madrid had Ronaldo, Barcelona Messi, Bayern Lewandowski, PSG Mbappe, Neymar, Juventus now have Ronaldo. Yet we seem to be happy shopping for Peresic, Willian, are either that level? Not for me. If Salah has another season like last, it might catapult him into that bracket, a bracket he has been put in prematurely based on one season, Leicester won the league one season. Still Liverpool have an aim to get to the top, to be considered elite. They got to the final and are using as a stepping stone, contrast that to no value in the market. We just don't seem to have a desire or aim to be elite.
We should be asking what our aims are, top four, or winning the League/ Champs League, the shopping list indicates the former. Perhaps if Forbes asset value ranking starts to fall something may change but right now it looks like we have business aims not football ones, less than two weeks to prove that wrong.
28 Jul 2018 19:45:53
Red Man, you and I disagree on some things but I am with you 100% on this. It’s come to this.
28 Jul 2018 19:50:36
Not on the pitch were not bad haven’t been for some time. The recruitment of players and managers of the last 6 years has been shambolic to say the least. This club has no direction on the pitch, and it’s why we won’t challenge the best until it’s addressed.
28 Jul 2018 20:03:45
For me there’s no vision, no clear identity or direction around what and who we are trying to be. There never used to be any doubt but those days are starting to fade. Winning is everything it seems.
28 Jul 2018 20:14:32
What if José wants Willian, which it seems he does?
28 Jul 2018 20:25:07
A club our size should be aiming to win every last thing on offer. But the window isn’t shut let’s not get negative. Like I said a week or two ago if we get Toby and a player like bale this will be the best window in years.
28 Jul 2018 20:26:25
I agree with you redman buying players like willian and peresic isn't the route I'd like us to go down . They are decent enough but we're never elite players and are hitting thirty .
28 Jul 2018 21:09:22
On 17 Aug I will have been supporting Utd for 50 years, I remember the day. I spent all the years after that until Cantona arrived in 93 to wait for that player. Our club seems to lack ambition, direction and inspiration, run by accountants with the aim being financial. The board have under two weeks to show different and Willian or Perisic won’t show it.
28 Jul 2018 21:11:47
We have bought Pogba, Sanchez, and Lukaku. Not exactly lesser players. Barcelona allegedly wanted Willian. City have only bought Mahrez. To stert questioning the ambition of the club because you don't like certain players isn't fair. We would all like Mbappe, and other shiny names but it wouldn't guarantee success.
28 Jul 2018 21:30:14
I don't see how signing a brazilian international as a problem.
Half of you on here think your playing football manager where you can use your budget to buy 1 world class player. It doesn't work like that in reality.
There is nothing wrong with Willian at all as a footballer, i don't know who else you expect to buy to play on the right hand side.
28 Jul 2018 21:44:48
Red Man It's complex question with an even more complicated answer.
I don't think there can be any doubt that the Glazers bought the Club to enhance their sporting portfolio and to invest in their financial future. They didn't buy Utd to plough their own money into the Club or with the intention of making Utd the dominant force in Europe capable of toppling the great Real Madrid.
The Glazers saw an opportunity to turn a well run business into the commercial giant we see today. In terms of increasing revenue, sponsorship and manipulation of the brand they have been hugely successful.
Whilst Fergi was in charge domestic success was almost guaranteed with minimal outlay. Perhaps more importantly he brought stability to the Club. Post Ronaldo we endured years of under investment where we told of "no value in the market" and with it we inevitably watched the quality of our football slowly decline. The attacking flair and creativity wasn't replaced as the likes of Scholes and Giggs retired and we saw the painfully slow decline of Rooney. Towards the end of the Fergi dynasty the expansive, exciting football had almost become a distant memory replaced with functionality and the winning mentality of an experienced, wily, old campaigner.
It remains my opinion that post Ronaldo investment in the Club was criminally poor. Whilst domestic dominance was relatively assured we should have been aiming to dominate Europe. With the brand steadily growing, sponsorship and revenue increasing the bread and butter was neglected. It was testimony to Fergi's genius that he saw off challenges from Chelsea and then the emergence of the noisy neighbours whilst reaching two European cup finals (aided by very favourable draws) but we should have been aiming higher.
Whilst Pep was assembling his great Barcelona team we were buying the likes of Young, Jones, Zaha, Powell and Buttner. The only notable arrival post Ronaldo being RVP in 2012.
Whilst some no doubt, myself included, were disgusted with the lack of underinvestment and ambition most we're placated as we continued to challenge domestically although in Europe we witnessed a steady decline.
The appointment of Moyes, for me perfectly illustrated the arrogance and naivety of the Club at that time. It was an appointment which reeked of complacency and contempt. If we needed any evidence of the ambitions of the Club from a footballing perspective then Moyes was its shining beacon. Never won a trophy, no European pedigree, no recognisable style of play, hell this was a manager that hadn't even won an away game at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, Anfield or the Emirates in over 10 years of trying. A man championed as the next Fergi. A concept so incomprehensible it still sends shivers down my spine. In my cynical opinion he was appointed as a safe pair of hands. A man that could work within a tight budget, who wouldn't complain and keep the Club within the top 4. In time it was hoped he may grow into the role and his 6 year contract was yet further evidence of the arrogance of the Club and an underestimation of the amazing work Fergi had done on a shoe string budget.
Whilst I can't argue that funds haven't been made available in the past few seasons this was money that was needed just to return the Club to a competitive level (top 4). If the Club were truly seriously about returning us to the top then more investment is needed. It remains my opinion that the Glazers have little interest in seeing Utd be successful, more this being an added bonus. What they desire is stability and what they need is for the Club to reach a consistent level of performance (top 4) so they can continue to exploit the brand and fill their pockets.
In answer to your question are we still an elite Club the second most valuable sports franchise on the planet will say a resounding yes. For matters on the pitch for which we're concerned our performances are way below our sky high value so I guess it depends who you ask?
28 Jul 2018 21:45:54
I have just been a little bit sick thank God Redman supports a team that can buy top top players.
Don't give me all I've supporters since the 60s .
You mean I've supported the most supported team in the world for a number of years .
Look at our transfer spend it's in the top 99% of clubs in the world over the last 4 years .
Falcao was on a huge wage
Sanchez on a huge wage
Ibra in 02 words on an obscene wage .
Pogba world transfer record
Do Maria mega money
Lukaku mega money
David Silva wasn't a huge buy prob best in the league
KDB Jose sold him 2 years later one of the best in the world .
Perisic and willian as per 02 are players Jose wants the club not so much.
28 Jul 2018 21:47:49
Man United went out and got arguably the best manager in the world . Then spent millions?
What more can the board do they don't pick the team or the tactics .
28 Jul 2018 22:19:32
DLIB, one of the best posts I have seen. The only point I would add was that the aim has been to increase the asset value of the business and that has been immensely successful yet it doesn’t benefit the fans or anyone who focuses on the football, pity this wasn’t all driven by success on the pitch.
28 Jul 2018 22:40:25
If José wants Willian, does that show a lack of ambition on his part?
28 Jul 2018 22:57:06
Red Man - Exactly the point I was trying to make but you managed it in one paragraph pal!
29 Jul 2018 00:19:27
Great posts redman and DLIB. Couldn’t a free more. Well summed up.
29 Jul 2018 04:28:51
How many post have we seen that the club didn't back board and buy perisic . Now buying perisic lacks ambition?
Maybe the truth is after major investment Jose has got us playing the type of footy the fans would like so the file fans are getting toxic.