Manchester United banter 79412

 

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03 Jun 2018 15:03:38
How do we properly assess a manager's results in relation to his transfer dealings? Is net spend relevant, especially in the early years when the squad may be void of quality and inherent market value, and the manager has to rebuild from the ground up?

The fact is, as Park points out below, Jose's acquisition costs have not been particularly high in relation to the managers of the other top teams. His results by any reasonable measure have not been bad, certainly better than Poch and Wenger. We've managed to get back to 2nd in the league and we've won 2 trophies. From a results point of view Mourinho has been successful, though perhaps not as successful as we would like.

Let's start to look at net spend once he's had the opportunity to fully make the team his own and rid it it of the LVG/ Moyes hangovers. Additionally, if we are to consider net spend then we would also need to consider market value of the squad, because some of the deficit in net spend may be more than made up by actual market value.

Agree1 Disagree4

03 Jun 2018 15:40:02
Spot on shaw I said something similar down the page. United rarely sell their top players to rivals in their prime, except with Ronaldo and di Maria. We have average players on huge contracts which is down to our own doing. But that makes it difficult to get these players off the book. So when we sell these players they are often surplus to requirements. Hopefully we will start selling some of these players and improve the squad more.

03 Jun 2018 15:41:50
Another issue is when we bid for a player there seems to be a premium of 20m added on. Other clubs don’t face this as much as we do. Whether that’s down to negotiation or not I’m not sure. But morata springs to mind. Was priced at 75m to us but Chelsea bought him for 60m. At the end of the day we need to take the same stance with our top players like De Gea or pogba. We seem to be starting to do that which is great to see.

03 Jun 2018 16:17:21
Surely they have to be judged if they successfully fill a need that you bought them for.

For example we bought darmian to be our first choice right back. We probably still need a first choice right back even though valencia has performed admirably.

Shaw to be left back for years and years. Still need a left back.

Bailly, lindelof and rojo and we still need a commanding centre half.

Blind, schweinsteiger, fellaini, Schneiderlin. Still have a hole to fill in midfield.

Depay, sanchez, martial and we still need to buy a winger.

Whether they cost £1 mil or £100 million if they don't fill a role then they have been a flop.

03 Jun 2018 16:22:02
The manager is only a part (sometimes a small part ) of the process of identifying a player .

03 Jun 2018 16:31:07
Good post DSG - throw in Miki and Sanchez who look like shadows of the players they were as well.

I mentioned the other day that the problem isn't just Jose most managers make poor signings, but his signings have left a lot to be desired for the most part. Matic gets lots of praise, but he looked like he was running in treacle most games and he was often redundant when it came to snuffing out danger - contributing next to nothing going forward (compare him to Fernandinho, Kante, Dembele and it's a no contest) . We paid a lot of money for a small upgrade on Herrera. Lukaku has played well under the circumstances, but he doesn't fit a team with no wingers and no proper fullbacks - so deal doesn't make sense, nothing against the big man though who has done well off scraps.

Pogba has been ok, quality a handful of times, irrelevant the vast majority. For that money being spent you would expect better consistent quality being signed - so Jose has been very poor in the market. Again the weakness of LVG has helped Jose and schewed opinion, as for some bizarre reason people still use LVG as the benchmark.

03 Jun 2018 18:52:21
On the money there Beastie Boy.

03 Jun 2018 19:42:29
The reason of the players haven't performed is becauae of themselves. I think Lukaku did a very good job this year, i didn't really rate him that much.

Aa for players like mkhi and Pogba they are to blame themselves.

Matic has done a good job but he is getting older and isn't really superfast to run around and be everywheree.

03 Jun 2018 20:16:49
Do we want to give Mourinho more money to spend?

He has bought 2 centre backs already, and he still feels he needs another one. For some reason he dropped our only class CB in Bailly towards the end of the season and he didn't really give a real reason.

He gave Zlatan a huge contract while injured and he hardly played for the side again.

He has fallen out with Pogba, his own signing.

He has already sold Mkhitaryan, and Sanchez is let to prove his worth.

He has signed 8 players for nearly 300m. Only Matic and Lukaku can be called real successes so far.

So judging by his current average if he signs 4 players this summer three will be underwhelming and one will be a success.

So why would you want him to spend another 200-250m for one good player?

03 Jun 2018 20:26:51
Shappy

You need to stop with all the negativity and get with the programme.

Jose is the Messiah.

Jose has incredible relations his with his players.

Jose is the best man manager that has ever lived.

Jose was won like to of trophies, ergo Hea will win many more.

He has signed excellent players; if they have turned out to be pants that is down to them, not Jose who is completely blameless.

Players when fall out with ajose need a good talking to, they need to learn who the Messiah is and get a grip.

Shappy, enough with the doom mongering, we are on a steep upward curve and this time next year we will have won every trophy on offer. Stop being a sourpuss.

03 Jun 2018 20:28:47
DSG and Beast. Hit the nail on the head. Another point is which of our players can we honestly say are playing better? Valencia Shaw young hererra matic smalling jones bailly lindelof martial pogba Rashford lukaku mata sanchez Mctominay da gea lingard? Out of all these, ddg, but he has a gk coach. Young has had a good season. Lukaku has had a good start to his life in a United shirt. And Mctominay and Lingard have played well.
The rest of the players have been bang average. Can 10-12 players all have poor seasons out of coincidence? I'm not sure.

03 Jun 2018 20:41:13
You’re all wrong. Jose is doing great stuff, great great stuff. He has one of the greatest ever football brains, so big that he can control Luke Shaw’s body from the sideline. If we didn’t have Jose, we probably would be in league 1 by this stage.

03 Jun 2018 22:25:47
Biggly.

03 Jun 2018 22:36:49
Fake Noucamp.

04 Jun 2018 04:04:35
Is having a new manager in a World Cup season really that good of an idea? What with the reduced transfer window period in England.

04 Jun 2018 07:04:59
Is it better to keep walking down the wrong path rather than turn back and go the right way, just because it's getting dark?

04 Jun 2018 08:02:27
Judging by how posters go, the new manager (whoever he is) got no chance at all. Half a season of bad performance and results and everyone would want him to get out of the club.

04 Jun 2018 10:57:39
Shappy how are we walking down the wrong path? We have improved in every aspect of our game apart from in playing style. We have scored more goals, conceded less, highest position in over 5 years. Of course the playing style is terrible but we are playing with a defence that’s not good enough and two ex wingers as full backs. The club are actively looking to address this, whilst looking to add some quality in the cb and cm positions. Yes his man management has been poor with certain players but quite frankly in some cases it has been needed. Fergie used to sell players who he perceived was against his regime. I’m sure if Jose did that there would be an uproar on this site. Your dislike for Jose clouds some of your posts. What precedent does it set if we are sacking managers who finish second in the league?

Look at the situation Chelsea are in. Yes there are other issues there but sacking managers has harmed them in the long run. They have a hugely talented set of youngsters that have won the treble and quadruple in the last few years but have not been integrated into the squad. Whose fault is that? I suppose you think it’s jose’s But it’s a club structure issue where a manager is not there long enough to promote and work with these talented youngsters.

I don’t want to see us go that way. Whose to say if Jose stays and is successful he won’t promote the talented youth players such as Chong, Gomes or Hamilton? The club have promoted both McKenna and Carrick from within into coaching roles with McKenna said to be taking charge of training sessions. His youth team played some lovely football and I think it’s a great appointment. Do you really think the club did this against jose’s Will? Of course he endorsed this. The narrative that he is a miserable stubborn ego maniac is so boring and our own fans have been brainwashed by it. Yes he has narcissistic tendencies but you don’t get to the top without it. He may not be a right fit for united, I have reserved judgement on this till the end of next season. But I can guarantee the next manager will have a great squad to build with if and when he goes.

04 Jun 2018 14:51:54
Park or we will be left with a load of 30 year olds while our top youngster have left.

By the way the club buy players not Jose.

04 Jun 2018 15:31:01
Jred who said the top youngsters are leaving? Rashford is going nowhere and it’s only real martial who may be off. I think that would be a mistake for sure but I think he will stay another year.

Three of jose’s Signings can be considered ‘old’. Zlatan, Sanchez and matic. Sanchez is turning out to look like a mistake but I will give him the benefit of joining mid season. Miki again was 27 but he is no longer here. Zlatan in our first year was a good signing imo, but keeping him was a massive mistake. Seemed to be for sentimental reasons rather than logic. But he has now left as well. Matic has been a really good signing and we needed that experience in the middle of the park.

The rest of his signings are players who are young, so again the narrative he only signs finished articles doesn’t hold up. Bailly (24), pogba (25), Lukaku (25), lindelof (23) are all good buys imo. The issue remains that Jose is not getting the most out of them currently. Hardly leaving behind an old squad. Add the potential additions of Fred (25), dalot (19), Sandro (26), Milinkovic-Savic (23) and these are not ‘short-termism’ buys. Ok Alderweireld is 29 and bale is 28, but they are both established world class players that we need. I don’t see how people can argue that Jose only buys old players. It’s just another stick to beat him with to suit the agenda against him.

My issue with him is that he is not getting the best out of the squad at all. If we are still in a similar position come January I will be in the Jose out camp. But he deserves another year of backing and support from us fans to try and win us the league. I don’t why that’s a problem for some fans.

04 Jun 2018 15:59:23
Park
I'm in the camp I would give him another 12 month .
But can't understand all these post about Jose "doing no wrong" .

04 Jun 2018 16:10:08
Jred I’m with you mate. I’m in the same camp as you. I don’t understand why it has to be two polar opposites of in or out.







 

 

 
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