Manchester United banter 84769


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18 Feb 2020 13:14:28
Good win but it will be in vain if we don’t beat Watford. Chelsea play Spurs on Saturday so whatever their result we benefit, IF we can beat Watford.

Scrappy game last night but a win is a win. Some good performances throughout, the issue for me was up front, Martial and James were pretty poor, midfield wee moving the ball well, we had width, but there was nothing up top. If we can fix that we can push on, big if though.

Agree1 Disagree0

18 Feb 2020 14:04:51
James not good enough for me.

Can't fault his effort and work rate though he does try but for me he's just not good enough.

18 Feb 2020 14:09:39
AJH - I think the ball is very much in Ole's Court now. He seems have found a formation which perhaps best suits our squad especially whilst Rashford is injured.

I think Ole should probably just stick to playing 3-4-1-2 until the end of the season now.

I know we invested heavily in Maguire in the summer and I think he's an excellent player but I think he's vulnerable when left exposed. He's lacks a bit of pace and mobility and I think it helps having two faster and more agile players either side of him to cover. The formation also allows us to keep numbers in midfield, it provides width and enables us to play two upfront. We also don't have to solve the conundrum of who to play on the right wing.

When teams sit deep and against lower placed opposition especially at home I think there is an argument that Dalot could play at RWB. I like AWB he's an excellent young full back and brilliant in 1v1 situations but his distribution and attacking intent is definitely an area of his game where he can improve. His cross last night was quality and sometimes he just needs to simplify his game. The problem when we only play Martial upfront is he often doesn't make the runs across defenders like we saw last night therefore there is often no point in delivering the ball into the box. I think AWB should always look to beat his full back and put crosses into the box. It's up to Martial to make the correct runs and be a threat in the box. If we play two upfront we'll have another body in the box.

The formation also allows us to play two upfront. Sometimes Martial is left isolated or doesn't get himself into goalscoring positions enough in between the sticks. Against teams that sit deep I think Greenwood can be excellent. He's deadly when he gets the ball in or around the box. He makes intelligent runs and can shoot from either foot with power and accuracy. When teams sit deep Greenwood has the quality to manipulate the ball in tight areas and shoot making him a real threat in these games which we've lacked on occasions this season.

In my opinion it's the best formation that give us the most balance in attack and defence at this moment in time.

18 Feb 2020 19:41:04
I can accept martial being useless for 89 mins if he scores on the other minute but he is a tough watch.
Great run and header for the goal. But if a player can do it once he can do it all the time but he doesn't, either because he can't be arsed or because he doesn't see the run.
Im not sure which it is but it frustrates the life out of me i'd hate to play with him.
Reminds me so much of nani. As a cf playing with nani it was difficult because you never knew when he would release the ball, with becks you knew to make the run as the ball was coming as soon as he could get a yard to cross.

18 Feb 2020 21:50:12
Ken - I totally agree pal, Martial is just so frustrating. I think he's just one of those players that wants the ball to feet. I just don't think he will ever make those kind of runs consistently enough as I'm not convinced he's see the value in making countless runs when most of the time the ball doesn't arrive. He wants to dribble and run with the ball not without it. If we get can another player up alongside side him that will make those runs and provide a threat in between the sticks it would take the pressure off him somewhat. Ultimately we might just have to decide does he offer enough. I still think his best position is probably off the left and think he should battle it out with Rashford on that side.

He reminds me a bit of Berbatov with his attitude. He was a fantastic player but I'm not sure Utd fans ever really took to him or if he made the most of his incredible talent. Sometimes he'd do a brilliant piece of skill in the middle of the pitch or play a great pass but then never busted a gut to get on the end of it. He almost stopped and admired it. I've always preferred forwards that could do the lot like Rooney and Tevez. I can admire the beauty and elegance of players like Berbatov and Martial but the very best also have a work ethic to go with their talent.

{Ed047's Note - still waiting fella 🤷‍♂️

18 Feb 2020 23:11:55
I presume your talking about Pogba Ed and if so I apologise I think I was being a bit facetious.

I actually quite like Pogba and have some sympathy for him but can understand why he's unpopular. He's a good player that hasn't lived up to expectations and I think Utd have been guilty of keeping too many players that haven't performed. I think some of the criticism was a little over the top but on reflection maybe vitriol was a bit strong and I hope there are no hard feelings I must have been in an argumentative mood for which I apologise.

{Ed047's Note - thanks mate, I was questioning his attitude in honestly not using personal slights against him because I don’t know him from Adam.

Just from outside his behaviour, as a pro footballer, toward your club and you guys as fans is terrible.

Definitely no hard feelings DLIB. 😁

19 Feb 2020 05:12:14
Yeah Agree Ken. He is not a typical Center Forward.
But he can produce those special moments, however not consistently enough for a top club.

19 Feb 2020 11:24:02
Martial is somewhat of an enigma. Clearly talented and on his day unplayable. In that sense I can see some similarities with Nani, but with Nani you never got the impression he didn't put in a shift every game, just sometimes it worked out others it didn't with him.

With Martial when it doesn't work for him you look at his game and wonder if maybe he tried a little harder it might have worked.

If Martial just had Lingard's off the ball work rate we would have one of the best strikers in the world. Which is what makes it so frustrating with him. He has the ability, but does he have the drive?

I have made excuses for him in the past, injuries and being played out wide, having his number taken away from him, etc. But he is 24 now and has been here for 5 years. This year he has been given every opportunity and he just isn't taking them. It's becoming clear that he either won't take that next step or the penny won't drop until he sees the end of his career in sight.

Like Depay maybe a move to a top club came too soon, maybe he needs a bump back down to earth to give him that push he needs.

Either way we need a top striker in the summer.

19 Feb 2020 13:51:57
Shappy, You can't just add an attribute to a player and say they'd be brilliant. Plus, I disagree on Martial even with added effort. His finishing just isn't good enough to call him anywhere near top class (think the chance against Liverpool). The man needs a magic boost to composure, finishing, decision making, movement, hold up play, strength - then we can were looking at one of the world's best strikers.

19 Feb 2020 16:26:02
Nizza, some of our best attacking phases over the last few years have often included Martial not in the role of scorer but actually working off the ball and with our other attackers. Darting runs, quick one twos, a little flick or pirouette all done at pace.

The problem is he doesn't do it enough. As for finishing I would say, bar Greenwood who has a freakishly clinical finishing ability, that Martial is the best finisher at the club. Every striker misses a sitter or two every now and then. But on the whole when given a chance Martial has ice in his veins.

His hold up play is decent, but then he isn't a target man type striker so I wouldn't expect it to be. That said, his hold up and link up play is streets ahead of Lukaku who is significantly stronger. Which goes to show brute strength and the ability to hold up the ball aren't mutually exclusive. Plus many great strikers who weren't particularly strong have been very good at holding up the ball and bringing others into play. Inzaghi, Henry, Villa, Aguero and Suarez all spring to mind, none of which are built like an Ox.

Remember is a defender goes in too hard it's often a foul. Having enough strength to reasonably hold off a player, with he quick feet and good technique to keep the ball away from them with the vision to see where your teammates are and get the ball to them at the right moment, is about skill and understanding more than brute strength.

For me I don't see Martial being brushed off the ball too easily very often, while he does have good technical ability to control the ball and bring others into play.

Look at how many more goals we score and chances we create when Rashford plays left and Martial plays centrally compared to when Rashford plays centrally and Martial plays wide.

This season along the majority of Rashfords goals have come when Martial is playing centrally, often with the two linking up.

Martial wouldn't be a perfect striker with improved work rate, every player has weaknesses, but if he improved his off the ball movement and work rate he would score maybe an extra 10 goals a season and create an extra 15-20. That alone would have our front three scoring at an elite level.

19 Feb 2020 23:53:21
Shappy, you're not wrong in most of what you say there. However I took issue with the claim that with more off the ball work rate he would be 'one of the best strikers in the world'.
You go on to compare two of his other attributes unfavourably. Not even the best finisher at the 7th best club in England. And better hold up play than Lukaku of all people. Not exactly the benchmark of hold up play.
We have a tendancy to overrate a lot of individuals at United because we remember the hype of the signing, the highlights, the glimpses of potential. But many of us acknowledge our squad is poor, demonstrated by our league position.
LAS point,



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