Manchester United banter 80921

 

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11 Nov 2018 09:43:10
Good derby day morning,

Today we play a club in Stockport that sadly appears to be far better run than our own. Whatever the result I think the City juggernaut will mean they are Champions again this season and we are far from having the structure to match them.

This has been allowed to happen under Gill but very much more so under Woodward. Look at our structure. We have Jim Lawlor, appointed by SAF, who is chief scout but also have a "Head of Global Scouting" called Marcel Bout, appointed by LvG! It doesn't stop there, we also have a "Head of Development" called John Murtough, appointed by Moyes. Adding a DOF in there will likely confuse matters further, I suspect that may be delayed until the end of the season.

When it comes to signings Mourinho will have a say but given so many "heads", how much say? Then signings would all need signing off by Woodward. There is a rumour that when signing Pogba, consideration was given to how much his social media might benefit the club. If true it's ridiculous. There are also rumours that the approach of City compared to us, trying to sign players, indicated City were far more coordinated, City know what they want and why. Liverpool and City have a transfer committee, but does anyone know what we do? Easy to blame the manager but unless there is a coordinated approach then it is likely to bring chaos, is that not what we have seen for 6 years?

When we take to the pitch today, I go back to something I posted, I think last season, that we have players from four different philosophies and mind sets at the club, trying to put them together is one reason why we have had difficulties. Trying to get a coherent strategy for anything, the style or transfer activity, must be difficult and compared to City it tells me that unless Woodward gets the structure in place we could be having similar derbies looking up at City for some time.

Agree5 Disagree7

11 Nov 2018 11:13:50
Well said RedMan.

11 Nov 2018 11:39:28
Do you actually know what the roles of people you are criticizing are?

Also given that literally none of Mourinho's signings can be called outright successes after spending the money he has, its not just easy to blame the manager it is the only option.

11 Nov 2018 12:22:29
Every club at this level takes more into account tban just ability when signing a player for that amount of money. It is outdated to think that clubs only care about winning football matches.

As for all the roles you have criticised - unless you have an insider understanding of their roles (rather than titles) then it is unfair to criticise. Indeed, we have spent lots of money and signed plenty big names for managers (except Moyes) . If you are looking for someone to blame then ed002 already said the Board capitulated to 'toxic' fans.

11 Nov 2018 13:12:26
CSM/ So72

I haven’t criticised anyone, I don’t know the remit for the roles or how they performing them. I have pointed out that there are such roles appointed under different managers who have different playing styles and ask what our coordinated strategy is? The starategy we have been on has hardly been successful has it, however, CSM, you just want to blame the manager. If you carried on doing that we would be in the same situation in 10 years. Definition of madness is keep doing the same thing expecting a different outcome.

11 Nov 2018 13:31:53
I get your point Red Man but I think we're just looking for excuses.

Chelsea don't appear to suffer the way we have? They replace mangers with alarming regularity yet don't appear to seek out a particular style or character. They've jumped from Ancelotti to Mourinho to Conte now Sarri. All have different approaches and styles yet all have been successful (early days for Sarri) . The truth is good players can adapt to any style or system. I accept that some tweaking is required but Chelsea still have many of the players that won the title under Mourinho.

It's always seemed absurd to me that the manager doesn't have an input or the final say on transfers. Things don't need to be complicated in my opinion.

What we need to do is simply sign better players and appoint better managers. Sometimes players or managers don't work out, even good ones can struggle to settle or adapt.

I'm not advocating we become a sacking Club. We can still operate with fairness and integrity. We should back our managers, give them what they want (within the constraints of the Club obviously) but they must understand that we are an ambitious Club with high expectations which must be met. If come the end of the season those expectations have not been fulfilled then we look for somebody new that can.

Praise City's structure all you want but the reason they are enjoying this period is because of Pep. It's really not rocket science, they appointed the best manager and they have backed their man. Liverpool have improved because of Klopp. We weren't praising their structure or transfer committee under Hodgson or Rodgers?!

So far Mourinho has done ok. Two trophies, fa cup finalist and runners up isn't to shabby. His style has been turgid at times, his methods antagonistic and divisive but for those who expected different don't understand Mourinho. For whatever reason we failed to back him in the summer which explains the poor start. He's had to build bridges, heal wounds (many of his own making admittedly) and we've suffered. If he can turn things around remains to be seen but the moral of the story must be back your manager or don't whichever the case maybe but a halfway house is no good for anyone.

There was success after Busby, there will be success after Fergi. We are a gigantic Club with huge resources. We should always strive to be the best, not accept mediocrity, but that doesn't mean we have to act without honesty or integrity. For me Man Utd should stand for excellence and accept nothing less. Players and managers are paid handsomely to represent this excellence and if they can't deliver then unfortunately we must find others that can. This is the nature of the business, this is the nature of Man Utd. Nobody said it was easy!

11 Nov 2018 13:56:36
We haven't been great in the market under Jose there's been about 11 players bought in just over two year and only 2 are nailed on starters matic and pogba and they cause debate.
Maybe that's harsh on lukaku who only recently has lost his place, maybe through injury but poor form aswell so who knows and lindelehoff who's beginning to finally be a regular but maybe through default of iffy other options .
Lots of signings under lvg were just as in and out of the side aswell. It's definitely an area we can improve on . It's difficult to apportion blame without knowing the process.

11 Nov 2018 13:59:23
That saved me having to read the report in the Fail on Sunday, Red Man 😁 I agreed with most of it as well.

11 Nov 2018 14:55:17
Redman this isn't the first post of yours about how its all down to the management just because you are using new names doesn't change the overall jist of your post, which is blame the glazers and woodward but not mourinho.

What does having people appointed under different manager have to do with anything, i have no clue about what their jobs exactly entail but i highly doubt a head scout will be deciding our football strategy and who he was signed by matters not to me as much as is good at his job does.

Much of the mess mourinho is of his making not woodward's, mourinho's preffered lw choice is blowing hot and cold in serie A, his other 30 yr old signing matic has been a colossal waste of money. But let's blame woodward for saying no more journey men to mourinho. We are into the 3rd season and we are still in the fit pogba into the 11 and get the best out of him stage, but come on let's sell him so that moourinho can screw around with his latest 100 mn signing.

You praise city, one of the reason they are doing well is because guardiola understands what he wants and signs those players and has an actual philosophy and strategy to play football unlike our manager who plays FM with is signings and has no attacking identity or defensive organisation. Last I checked those aren't things anyone other than guardiola is responsible for at city.

Also backing a manager who has had the 2nd worst start to the season, we know how the worst one ended don't we. Does this fit well with your madness analogy?

11 Nov 2018 15:49:38
CSM

Guardiola arrived at City long after Soriano and Begiristain had set a plan and manoeuvred that club along the planned path as part of it, so on arrival Pep was the cherry on top of the cake. When Pep looks to recruit it will be part of a plan to fit the picture they have, maybe that picture is all about football success and isn’t impacted by social media clicks. Then, remember, Pep will be discussing it with fellow football people, aligned in what they believe in and not financial experts in adding a new noodle partner.
If United hadn’t backed SAF back in 1989.90 and I recall we finished one season about 13th off the top of my head, how successful would we have become? Sometimes sacking the manager isn’t the answer no matter how frustrated some fans like you are. There is more to fix in the background.

11 Nov 2018 16:23:49
I think Red Man is spot on. Other clubs seem much more coordinated and clear about what they are trying to achieve, we seem a little all over the place. Most of our signings recently have not been huge successes, there are as many that have come and gone that have stayed, and those that have stayed have been mixed.

I hate City but their approach has been long term and focused, Liverpool also seem to have got their act together. We seem to wave a cheque book about, does anyone think Sanchez was anything other than a kneee jerk signing? We lack leadership, EW may be a commercial genius but I don’t think he should be leading the football side.

11 Nov 2018 16:32:12
Redman fergie was a young manager who was looking to overhaul the club not a middle aged manager who lost his last 2 dressing rooms and whose strategy is trying to get rid of the young talent we have, so as to sign 30 somethings who will give him a trophy or 2 before he goes somewhere else.

Also the financial expert seemed to have gotten Mourinho most of his targets and ones he refused to sell despite Mourinho wanting them gone are ones saving Mourinho's ass this season. Not bad I think, imagine what he could do with another to help him and a manager who actually knows what he is doing.

11 Nov 2018 16:44:28
Everyone says how City had planned for Pep long before he came, and how they set things up ready for him when he arrived. But how true is that?

Hasn't Pep spent 80m on two goalkeepers?

Hasn't he spent 100m on two new CB's?

Hasn't he spent 200m on FOUR new full backs?

Hasn't he spent another 200m on new midfielders and forwards?

How many of the first 11 were actually at the club prior to Pep taking over?

2 maybe 3. That doesn't sound like they prepared too well for him does it? The only thing you can say they "prepared" for him was that he would be working with a couple of people above him who he had worked with before.

That doesn't sound like City had a plan for Pep. More like they had a plan to set the club up well, hired who they thought was best placed to run the club how they saw fit. Then these people have hired a manager who they knew they had a good working relationship with and who could take the club the next step.

Lets not kid ourselves that City started some grand plan to hire Pep 7-8 years ago and have been building towards it ever since.







 

 

 
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