16 Mar 2018 14:09:08
Watching mourinho's press conference only reaction I can muster is wow, it seems he really wants us to hate him.
16 Mar 2018 14:38:42
He’s reeled off our poor league and CL form since SAF, doing a Rafa and staying FACTS. Think he means to say fans go on about heritage but our recent heritage sucks, apart from our Europa league win and improvement in league position both under him.
16 Mar 2018 14:49:54
Wrd he can rattle off as many stats and facts he wants the only fact that matters is Sevilla an average team which is going to get smashed by bayern thoroughly outplayed us over 180 mins.
The reporters are idiots, when he was going on about heritage someone should have asked him what his excuse was for being outplayed by a team that cost less than pogba and lukaku combined or was it moyes, lvg and fergie's fault?
16 Mar 2018 14:50:36
He has hit the nail on the head. It is exactly what a lot of us have been saying .
He has taken over a really crap defense. A very old and disjointed midfield and a very young attack .
Compare that to Man City where Guardiola has taken over the likes of De bruyne, Silva, Aguero and Kompany who know how to play in big games and win titles and he has just built on those foundations to take the team forward with the signings he has made.
{Ed004's Note - I am not defending his team selection and tactics midweek at all. But no one was on here criticising the exact same selection of tactics and formation we played vs Chelsea and Liverpool so I can see why he played it again. Pep had foundations to work with and has spent considerably more than Jose. Now we have our foundations we need to catch up with Pep.
We have some excellent players in our squad going forward now in De Gea, Bailly, Matic, Pogba, Sanchez, Martial and Lukaku (who I must say has completely won me over recently - Even my lpool supporting mates couldn't believe how much his hold up has improved) and some excellent squad players to have as cover next season with Romero, Valencia, Smalling, Rojo, Shaw (hopefully pre season gets him in shape), Herrera, McTominay, Radford, Mata and Lingard. I guess Jose should know to expect this managing the biggest club in the world. No other manager in the world would come under this much scrutiny sitting 2nd and still in the FA Cup.}
16 Mar 2018 15:07:19
Top top reply Ed and agree with Lukaku, he was someone i thought wasnt goos technically and looked like a boxer, but he has improved so much in terms of hold up play and that is all down to his hard work.
We have a great spine to work from next year and just need to upgrade a few positions to really challenge next year.
Scrutiny will come because a lot of fans hate us for one reason or another and likely so because of how much we have won in the past.
But they are fans and they will act like fans so Jose is just deflecting all the negativity and stated all the facts today why United are in the position they are today and where they are heading.
I wouldn't really complain if we won the fa cup this year and finish second, that would have us with 4 trophies in two years under this diajointed Jose team.
{Ed004's Note - Agreed 100%}
16 Mar 2018 15:10:44
Ed004 his defense works if he is defending why he is behind city, not when he is defending why he got thoroughly owned by Sevilla or is he saying we are so rubbish that we can't be expected to beat a team that has gotten 5 put past them 5 times this season.
{Ed004's Note - His defence works because what he is saying is true. We are currently in a transitional period, he inherited a weaker side than Pep and traditionally we have been poor in Europe. Even under Fergie we were relatively poor only winning it twice with both being a bit fortunate. Can anyone say that if Jose left tomorrow he would be leaving us worse off than when we he got us? Or that we haven't improved since he joined.
And before someone fires the he's spent a lot of money line, that money was available to Moyes and LVG was not afraid to spend either. In fact if you took the time value of money into equation LVG spent a very considerable amount. Di Maria for 60 mill back then would have been a whole lot more now etc. Pep inherited KDB a 50 odd million signing how much would he cost nowadays to sign? Certainly a fee exceeding Pogbas}
16 Mar 2018 15:22:30
ed he changed it from the Liverpool game. fellani and matic in the middle
Changed rashford around, should have played Mata.
Pogba on the bench as bad as he is lately he could have done something.
Fellani was out for weeks and he started him.
{Ed004's Note - So he made two changes to starting 11 but played near enough exact same style of play. Only really significant change was Rashford on the right}
16 Mar 2018 15:36:44
CSM as much as I think Jose isn’t the right man to take us forward he was spot on with what he was saying. We may be one of the biggest clubs in the world in stature, but we have been a very poor team on the pitch since sir alex left. Since 2011/ 12 we have hardly had any champions league football. And when we have we have been utterly pathetic. A lot of our players don’t have the mentality of the old United because there is nobody left from sir alex’s Era apart from De Gea, Valencia, smalling, Jones and young. I don’t count Carrick as he has hardly played. Of the ones I have mentioned, only De Gea is worthy of being in the first team. As fans we expect to be challenging for top honours but at the moment we are living of our reputation under sir alex rather than the reality that we have been a mediocre top 4 challenger. So yes we expect the best but Jose inherited a very poor squad in comparison to pep, so the playing fields have not been level. However, it is clear that pep is a better manager and he style Jose is trying to play is unacceptable. Whilst I do not think Jose will win is the league, I do agree that in comparison to recent times, we are doing much better and in fact he has done the best since sir alex left. But let’s be honest that’s not difficult after the last two distastrous appointments before him.
16 Mar 2018 15:40:28
Totally agree ED. All the usual moaners who were quiet whilst we were producing excellent results are screaming louder than ever because we lost a game. Yes it was a big game but we are so much better than we have been since Fergie left.
This is the BEST team we have had since he retired and we are on course to finish in our highest position in that same time period!
{Ed004's Note - And hopefully by the end of the summer he has a squad that he is ready to mount a challenge with - which I fully expect him to do. There's only one question mark out of his 8 signings so far for me and that's Lindelof (Not counting Zlatan due to injury and him being the best available at that time).}
16 Mar 2018 15:43:57
Actually Ed I think I said there wasn't much difference between the home game against L'pool in which we won and the away game which everybody likes to point out as the epitome of anti football other than Lukaku was able to hold the ball better and we were clinical. Anyway i'm not saying I'm right only I don't think the tactics were that much different between the two games.
I've said on numerous occasions that the result is all that matters to me but accept that once results suffer there is no hiding place with that brand of football and it becomes hard to defend.
He was allowed to rant but why didn't anybody ask him why he selected a half fit Fellaini or switch Rashford to the right hand side where I don't think anybody has ever seen him play a good game. Why was Mata benched?
It's easy to identify our lousy form since Fergi retired. Moyes and LVG were useless and rightly lost their jobs and we we're all just as furious with some embarrassing abject performances when they were in charge.
The performance against Sevilla had nothing to do with our recent 'heritage' and everything to do with cowardly and insipid tactics.
Once again everybody is talking about Jose or busy researching our history so he doesn't have to answer difficult questions about his tactics or a perceived lack of intensity and desire shown by the players.
I suppose it's another Jose masterclass is some respects.
16 Mar 2018 15:45:05
Again ed004, guardiola and city don't come into this. He wasn't beaten by guardiola or any other big club in europe he was beaten by sevilla, a team that hasn't spent anywhere near he has spent.
He will leave us better than he found us, i donot disagree with that. But give guardiola/ pochettino/ klopp 300mn they will leave us better than they found us. He wants to spend atleast 200 may be 250mn more, that would take his eventual spending to 500-550mn.
Yet when we face city/ liverpool/ chelsea/ tottenham or any other half decent side he will park the bus and play stoke city football. Give any of the above mentioned managers 500mn they will improve the team win the same trophies mourinho will win and play good football to the boot. There will always be games where he doesn't want to lose and draw is his only motive, like it was when we went to liverpool or away to sevilla.
A friend of mine recently gave me a book, its called "What Got You Here Won't Get You There" we are facing the same situation with mourinho, he was good to get us through the post lvg phase, get us into top 4 and likely keep us there but if we want to win the league and be in a fight every season for the league we need a better manager.
{Ed004's Note - I can't see what better manager there is out there that's going to garuntee us trophies not with Peps current City side and unlimited budget being around as well. I'm also going to note one factor that hasn't really be noted so far. Other than Alderwereild have any of the other top 6 sides lost a key player that the team is built around for long periods of time? Because Jose has had to deal with long term injuries to both Pogba and Bailly both of which were fundamental to our fantastic start to the season where we played great football. Jose has then had to rely on players like Lingard, Fellaini, Smalling, Jones etc that supporters on here are quick enough to note aren't good enough for us.
I've mentioned multiple times that I won't defend what happened on Tuesday as it was cowardly and awful from us. It was almost as if the occasion got to us and maybe that's down to the players lack of experience or poor managerial instructions I'm not sure. I just don't get this recent wave of 'let's go sack another manager' when he has blatantly improved us and when he does leave, will leave us in a far better position. Also the money reason that keeps coming up. Has Conte improved that Chelsea side after spending 100+ million on Bakayoko and Morata or did LvG leave us better off after spending a fortune, atleast the majority of Jose signings have worked out well. Could the likes of Moyes have been able to get Bailly ahead of Pep, Pogba ahead of Madrid, Sanchez, Zlatan, Matic etc who all came for Jose}
16 Mar 2018 16:09:33
I think somebody explained to Jose just how he sounded after the game on Tuesday .
It's a valid point city had better players than utd when he arrived but what he neglected to mention was he picked smalling who was already there over a CB he payed tens of millions for and he played Fellini who was already there over the guy he payed a world record fee for in the same position . It's ok to point out players he inherited aren't as good as cities but then select them over the players he has actually bought himself .
{Ed004's Note - Lindelof is currently adjusting to the league, similar to Bernardo Silva (50 mill) who isn't getting in that City first 11 side. Additionally, Smalling was the only other option due to injuries to Rojo and Jones. Pogba I don't understand unless he wasn't fully fit}
16 Mar 2018 16:10:25
Bang on 004.
16 Mar 2018 16:16:07
Fantastic post Ed I'm annoyed as well but I fully agree with you. I think we might be in the minority though.
{Ed004's Note - I was annoyed as hell on Tuesday. Completely ruined my night and I can't even remember if I posted on here or if I had the whit to wait until my emotions died down or not. I just, for the first time since Ferguson left, see us on a gradual improvement and don't think sacking a manager will help us in anyway}
16 Mar 2018 16:18:26
That’s a great response above ed can’t argue with any of that. But with the players at our disposal there is not excuse to be parking the bus against top sides. I think that’s the grievance we all have. But I suppose we knew what we were in for when we hired Jose. And he most probably won’t change. If he doesn’t then by this time next year it will be very very toxic. If PSG did come in for him maybe it wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen. It’s important now for Jose to settle on a formation and team selection. He needs to find a way to fit pogba in the same side as Sanchez. He needs to keep bailly fit and partner him with lindelof as there is potential there. Mata needs to be one of the first names on the team sheet at right wing as he is the only player win composure on the ball i'm the final third. We are a poorer side when he is not in. I would move Sanchez centrally as a second striker off Lukaku and play him into form, not on the left at the expense of martial and rashford. I would then play shaw over young and give him the time to make the position his own till the summer, then upgrade him. These are small changes that would improve us massively. And finally, I would get the team playing ten yards further up the pitch so that when pogba picks he ball up it’s not inside our own half. Let’s start playing properly and giving teams problems instead of giving them the initiative. Let’s be realistic, Jose won’t be sacked in the summer so we have to support the team and invest properly in the summer. The foundations are there but Jose is not utilising it at all.
{Ed004's Note - That's near enough exactly what I think we should do. I'm torn between whether we should go 4231 and play Sanchez central to get the best out of him or play 433 with Pogba on the left side and get the best out of him. I think both players are stepping on each other's toes currently. Think Valencia needs rested for Young alongside Lindelof/Rojo beside Bailly and Shaw on the left. Nothing left to lose so hopefully we play attacking and aggressive football. Think that's the best way for Jose to win back a large amount of the fans he's lost}
16 Mar 2018 16:28:44
Ye need to make a feature to agree with the Ed’s, great reply ed004.
{Ed004's Note - Thank you}
16 Mar 2018 16:32:40
It's funny how other teams don't seem to give time to under-performers. I'm pretty sure Koeman took over an ageing defence and was waiting for signings to click for example, he was rightfully sacked as the signs were not good.
If we had been decisive with LVG (Christmas time 2nd season) we would have probably qualified for the CL that season rather than the waste of space Europa League. Had we been decisive this Christmas rather than handing Jose an extension (WTF) then we'd still be in the CL, simply telling our far superior players to just do what they do naturally would be enough to beat Sevilla easily.
There have been countless managers that have been hired and fired in the same period that Jose has been in charge. They didn't have hundreds of million to spend, a squad of top quality players to take over and immense support infrastructure. We have forgotten how to be ruthless and that complacency spreads throughout the team - the only team less appealing on the eye in the EPL is WBA and that is saying something.
Does anybody see a Jose team doing any different, he could have £1 billion to spend and we would be served the same rubbish, sure we'd pick up results, but when it matters we would fail, CL and League, nowhere near winning either of them. Our two supposed world class stars (Pogba/ Sanchez) look half the players they are consistently, the only ones that look half decent are not real gamechangers because they do precisely what the manager asks of them - he wants big robots. 1 good game counts for 5 bad games, it should be the other way around.
I'm sorry but Jose has had more than enough opportunities, we do not look like we are progressing compared to our direct rivals - despite the money and time being afforded. He has to go for the good of the club, players and the fans sanity!
16 Mar 2018 16:36:44
Are we guaranteed a trophy this year?
Should probably be doing better with the squad we have .
Lukaku been a good signing thank God we never signed moratta.
Jose doing what he does and what he wants .
People can post all they want Jose should do this or that .
But he will do it his way . The way he has done it all season that's his style not sure why people are kidding themselves.
16 Mar 2018 16:43:17
Ed004 its not about let's go sack another manager, mourinho long term is not a utd manager. His last stint at chelsea he tried playing decent football at times but once Tottenham smashed them he went in his shell like he always does, say next season he spends big money gets the side he wants but the moment things get tough he will go back to doing what he knows best and that is not the utd way.
We have a chance right now, get pochettino or jardim in summer and let them tweak the side they want as they will get a season to get their bearing with the side rather than wait for mourinho to implode which he will and then get someone who will be racing against time as the adidas top 4 clause will kick the season we aren't in CL, we can already see the signs with his constant targeting of the fans, pogba's recent performances.
You talk about injuries, guardiola has had no lb for the entire season, he seems to have managed pretty well hasn't he.
My biggest gripe with mourinho is he seems to value results over everything else. So why is it that when he gets criticized for not getting the perfect results he can't take the criticism, if your football is based only on results then your job review should also be based on the same. Last season he would have been sacked but for the Europa League, this season he has us in top 4 but after 300mn spent 16 points behind the leaders and a possible FA cup is not good enough especially when the football is so dire to watch.
{Ed004's Note - So being without Mendy is similar to having no Pogba or Bailly. Also Danilo as 30 mill pound cover isn't bad for a full back slot. Fergie also valued results over anything else in his last few seasons here. Forget how many games he ground out a win and it was classed as premiership winning experience. I just see no sense in sacking Jose who is on course to win 83/84 points (in a normal season that league winning form) because we dropped out of the champions league.}
16 Mar 2018 16:44:17
Martial Sanchez lukaku pogba matic Mata etc etc .
4 shots in 180 minutes minutes of football against Seville.
And it's the defence
Lindelof?
Bailly played young been playing well and ddg is the best gk in the world .
People talk about fellaini, Jose raves about him he has played 75 minutes of football since November. But straight back in to the starting 11 ahead of pogba and mc Tom.
Jose type player fellaini.
16 Mar 2018 16:47:21
Do you think he should be sacked jred. I dont.
Id like to give him the summer window for the board to back him and if we are as far behind next xmas as we are now then ill re consider my thoughts.
16 Mar 2018 16:50:26
Some of you are like the weather! After Chelsea and Liverpool the "Old Mourinho " was back. He's smiling again etc. One awful display and it's "get rid! " We are second. We would never had won the CL. We are 2- 3 players short of a good side. A very good side.
16 Mar 2018 17:23:51
Beast how can you say we aren't improving when compared to our direct rivals when we are currently ahead of 3 of the teams that were above us this time last year and we have gone out at the same stage of the competition in Europe as two of those same sides.
16 Mar 2018 16:46:34
Ed4
What do you think went wrong with Jose Chelsea team why couldn't he get the best out of hazard, Costa and co?
{Ed004's Note - He won the league with them players and then fell out with them and they downed tools... I don't think this current squad has downed tools for him.}
16 Mar 2018 17:15:03
Ed004 fergie had a great amount of goodwill to bank on jose doesn't.
We struggled without bailly because his other cb signing didn't work out and you are again barking up the wrong tree. The results are just the symptoms here not the disease. Had we lost to either of Chelsea or Liverpool the response from fans would have been the same.
We absolutely dominated Mourinho's madrid at OT until nani got sent off, what was that team - An injury prone rb and 3 has been defenders a 39 year old winger and tom cleverley and danny welbeck starting. You don't need an x player or a y player fit for the game to play good football you need a manager who allows that to play good football.
Until his football improves there is always going to be atleast a section of fans who want him gone, pogba being fit, bailly being fit are excuses only thing he requires is a change in his mentality and that is never going to happen.
{Ed004's Note - I thought Jose success or the fact we are in second ahead of teams that apparently have had better managers than us would have brought goodwill. I agree that a lot of this hostility is down to our current style of play. I just think hes doing the best he can with this group of players. I reckon arguments could be made about Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs and City all having a better balance in their first 11's alongside far fewer significant injuries to contend with}
16 Mar 2018 17:47:52
City are getting even stronger, this CL run will strengthen them further. The way they play will entice players to sign for them over us. We are not progressing compared to City who I consider our direct rival.
As for CL teams, well all the ones left in it would give Sevilla a hiding. We are miles behind the big Spanish teams, Bayern and even PSG - we will never catch them with Jose in charge because his style is anti-football. He has to change his style and he won't.
That is why I can say we are not progressing compared with our direct rivals. Finishing 2nd to City I could stomach at the minute, but the manner of finishing 2nd is a disgrace. I would find it hard to celebrate winning the league playing this way, but not winning anything or looking close? Shame on us for tolerating it is all I can say.
As for the likes of Spurs, Chelsea, Liverpool - I hardly think we are pulling up trees there, there is barely anything between us and next season they will all be a lot stronger, will we? The only way we will get better is by spending £250m to get £50m of value from it because of how corrupting the style is on class.
16 Mar 2018 17:39:41
Again ed004 injuries to players is an excuse, 180 mins vs sevilla 4 shots that's all he manages, Lukaku, Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Pogba are capable of more, same goes for the games against Liverpool away or City Home, the team we have can attack, mourinho doesn't allow it.
The other managers except guardiola don't get the money to spend that jose does.
{Ed004's Note - I've repeatedly said I can't and won't defend the Sevilla match. It was appalling and I've stated that I've no idea where we went wrong. It seems every decision made was the incorrect one. However, you go and mention two games vs top 6 why not look at them all in the bigger pitcher where we sit second in the mini top 6 table with only city ahead of us. Wenger has just spend over 100 million on two strikers that won't play together, Liverpool 75 million on a cb, only Spurs haven't had a massive outlet on players. Money in the sport has gone crazy. Psg spent over 200 million on a player yet will only win Ligue 1, Milan spent 200 mill in the summer, Barcleona have surely spent close to 300 mill since previous season and that doesn't include Griezman.}
16 Mar 2018 18:24:15
Ed004 the reason I mentioned the 4 games were in 2 of those we made no attempt to win while in the other 2 we only started to attack once we were losing.
The points the results are all relative, the fact that a utd Manager goes into multiple games in a season with a sole view of not losing is absolutely disgraceful.
As someone said earlier give him more money and we will be less rubbish at conceding goals our football won't improve. Most folk forget that the mourinho madrid team that scored those record breaking goals and points faced Barcelona and bayern and Dortmund when he was there, every time the tactics were same Stoke city football.
16 Mar 2018 19:24:16
Ken
I wouldn't sack him but I'm not going to make silly excuses for him .
A team with pogba and co should be playing better .
United will buy players every summer that football .
Watch that Seville game then come on her posting it's not Jose fault he needs better players?
16 Mar 2018 19:01:25
Ed004, nobody can guarantee us trophies, mate. The sooner people realise that the better. there's any number of young managers can give us a chance of doing it, other than the dinosaur currently in charge.