01 Jan 2017 11:50:45
"But I'm really happy with Fellaini. I'm really happy with the way he played
The connection with the fans, I think they realised how useful he is, they realised how much he is with the team. " jose
is he starting to win a few over on this site?
01 Jan 2017 12:06:14
Not for me. I was firmly in his corner when he first signed and I do like his commitment and professionalism, but he simply isn't good enough (he gets my support when he plays, but I'd rather he didn't) . There are very few teams where we need to have a player like Fellaini in the team to combat them. He is slow over the ground, slows the game down with the way he plays when on the ball, struggles to contribute to more than one phase of play - which handicaps the free flowing football we like to see and seem to be aiming for.
He is the perfect example of a player that would be a superstar at Everton, WBA, Southampton, but has a mostly negative impact on the overall flow of the team when he does play at our level. It is very similar to when Rooney drops into central midfield, it disrupts the whole team. He may be doing the job asked of him by the manager, but I don't think the manager is taking into account the overall impact that has on the other 10 players and it surprises me as Jose should know this.
Also - how many goals or chances does he create, he rarely wins a header and gives away silly fouls far too often, players glide passed him if he doesn't foul them first? A CM for Man Utd needs to have more strings to their bow or at least be an expert in something if they are a one trick pony, he isn't an expert and he is limited in most aspects of the game, especially Man Utd's game.
01 Jan 2017 12:21:30
beast why does that not surprise me.
01 Jan 2017 12:24:15
"but I don't think the manager is taking into account the overall impact that has on the other 10 players and it surprises me as Jose should know this. " beast
no the worldclass manager that jose is he probably doesn't understand that?
maybe jose can see things you dont, rather than the other way round?
01 Jan 2017 12:31:47
Jred,
Can't be that, Beast knows a lot more than us.
01 Jan 2017 12:35:34
Jred - Does a manager get every single decision correct? Managers are only human, they make mistakes. I think he is making one with Fellaini.
Would you rather I say, "Fellaini is a great player and one that should be in the starting 11 week in week out", why bother asking the question, I'm sure most people will agree with my critique which is being fair.
01 Jan 2017 12:37:40
What do you think GDS2? Or is the temptation to disagree/ attack me more tempting than voicing your honest view?
Fellaini is not good enough for Man Utd, he is good enough for a mid table team and would star for them.
01 Jan 2017 12:42:02
Got to say I agree with all of that beast great post. I will support him if he plays but yesterday he did disrupt the balance of the midfield yesterday. He was playing in the spaces where pogba has been so effective the last month and a half or so. Personally, mata should have started. with his intricacy and vision, we would have moved the ball quicker and probably scored earlier. When carrick is not fit a midfield 3 of Herrera pogba and mata still gives us the creativity, mobility and balance which we crave when carrick is not playing. Can't discredit fellaini's commitment. But he's just not good enough for us.
Also was so unimpressed with smalling yesterday. Never thought I would say I prefer Jones and rojo over him. I think we could get 25-30m from him in the summer for an England starting defender. No doubt someone like West Ham would be interested. I like how mourinho has turned round and said nobody leaves unless the price is right. It's about time we start selling players for a decent sum and not for peanuts.
01 Jan 2017 12:59:35
Top post Beast, Fellaini is a boxer not a footballer.
01 Jan 2017 13:04:47
Taking up minutes we could be giving to fosu-mensah but i can see his use when played closer to the front when were putting crosses in.
01 Jan 2017 13:07:37
I never wanted him, I just didn't see where he fits in and I still don't. He gives 100% but he has never looked the animal we used to face at Everton (not that I think we needed that) . However, he gets some unjustified stick and being booed by your own fans is out of order,
01 Jan 2017 13:11:42
I agree with Beast on the point that Felaini is not a United player
In terms of Jose's comments we don't know the context, perhaps the likely buyers in Jan are not able to release money, Sunderland and their manager for example or the dire mess they are in is putting Fellaini off going there? Therefore it could be good management by Jose in keeping a player happy. We don't know but I never wanted Fellaini and hope he finds somewhere else this month.
01 Jan 2017 13:21:54
Is always gives his best but he is not good enough imo for a top team as he is fairly one dimensional and creates very little for a midfield player. He is slow and cumbersome. I would rather he was not in the squad. Nothing against him and he seems to have a good attitude but just don't think he is a good fit for our team.
Personally I think fellaini young bastian depay morgan darmian and rojo are all in danger of losing their place in the squad over the next 2 windows. I hope that a couple of those squad positions can be filled from within and that we buy 3 / 4 players over them next 2 windows.
A midfielder to replace Carrick and a back up to herrera and pogba are along with cb must be a priority.
In a 60 game season 40 starts for each of pogba herrera is about the best you could hope for given injuries suspensions rest etc so that leaves 40 starts for the 3rd option. Fellaini is not good enough to pay that often.
01 Jan 2017 13:28:22
Fellani isn't good enough simple as, don't agree with booing or whatever and admire him staying professional, not his fault we bought him, but not of united standard in afraid.
01 Jan 2017 13:33:34
Not winning me over. I'm sure that he is a nice guy, but I don't rate him at all. He is not the technically gifted player we need in our attacking play and he is cumbersome when shielding a defense. He is a bruiser, not a footballer. It isn't even like we need his height, Pogba and Ibrahimovic are superb in the air, and if we need to play long ball then Ibra is the man to aim for.
I just cannot see what he has to offer.
01 Jan 2017 14:02:23
beast
jose said
"I'm really happy with Fellaini. I'm really happy with the way he played"
so maybe he played the way jose asked him to, maybe the team played the way jose set them up to play?
what is it jose said about experts? people seem to think it is very easy to manage a team but maybe its not .
maybe it quite hard and the very top managers in the world understand what it takes to get a group of players playing well.
maybe we aren't all experts, some of what goes on the pitch, tactics etc goes over our heads sitting in our armchairs.
if it was as easy as some think you got to wonder why there are any football teams not playing amazing football.
i love a debate on the footy but i think some people really do think they know more than the likes of Jose and co .
we all have an opinion but we are just fans who think we know best.
01 Jan 2017 14:14:03
so is jose wrong and all the above right?
if you can't see something does it mean its not there .
or maybe we don't know quite as much as we think .
team are playing well looking good what's the problem?
not every player in fergys teams where worldbeaters either . but they where all united players .
a good team will always beat 11 good individuals .
and 104 games played for united would suggest he is a united player.
76 for belgium would also suggest he is a good player .
not saying he is messi but he is far better than some on here think.
01 Jan 2017 14:25:59
On some things us armchair fans do know more, or maybe spot something the manager doesn't. Sometimes taking a step back is the best way to view things. My Mrs is great in the kitchen, but just occasionally I'll come up with a good idea that she hadn't considered, (normally add more meat) .
I met the same criticism frequently during the LVG reign from many fans on here, "A CL winning manager and Beast thinks he knows best on such and such", well maybe I don't know more in totality than people that chose management as their profession, but I can often spot a mistake when it's being made and it's not possible to make every single call right even if your name is Jose Mourinho. If Jose believes Fellaini is a solution to our midfield long term then he is simply wrong in my book and it looks like most people agree.
Just like Jose was wrong persisting with Ivanovic at right back imo he can get things wrong from time to time.
01 Jan 2017 14:49:10
beast
fellaini is a squad player who is doing the job of a squad player .
i wasnt a fan of lvg i didn't like his style of football.
the issue here is you say you know best but how do you know your right .
its very easy to point out someones mistakes from afar .
"we lost because of. "
"jose should of . "
"x player has to do. "
how do u know your right .
fellaini is not my type of player but he does a job and does it well that's why he is playing at the top level with united and belgium .
why do you think he is getting in the united and belgium team?
i was never a fan of crouch, again not my type of player yet every manager that worked with him raved about him, i was more a andy cole of fan i liked that type of striker .
andy cole : 1 goal in 15 games for england
p crouch : 22 goals in 40 games.
01 Jan 2017 15:05:29
Jred - I don't even think he is good to have as a squad player because he disrupts our flow too much imo, much rather have youngsters or cheaper alternatives that compliment the way we are trying to play.
That said, I'll answer your points/ questions:
1 - Yes it is easy to point out mistakes from afar if you are informed, that is what I am doing here. Jose is making a mistake if he thinks Fellaini is Utd quality.
2 - I know I am right because it is what I believe. When making any point you are always going to get people who agree or those that disagree, I trust my judgement. I am of course open to persuasion as anybody should be, but 3+years of watching Fellaini every game he plays is more than enough evidence for me to conclude that he is not good enough. The only counter argument to me is Jose saying the opposite not what Fellaini actually does on the pitch. Our eyes tell us week in week out that something is wrong with Fellaini in our team, sometimes he plays well personally, but the team rarely flourishes with him in it.
3 - He is not my type of player either, but not too sure what job he is doing. The manager is obviously happy with him, but I can't see what he brings to the table other than presence and a bit of physicality. I would suggest the Mourinho happyness bar with Fellaini is low based on his dissatisfaction with Schweini and Schneiderlin. It was just the same with LVG and Rooney, always saying he played well when he had obvious stinkers.
4 - How have we done since Fellaini has played for us these past 3+ years, how have Belgium done? Both have severely underachieved in my mind. Mertesacker and Podolski have a lot of caps too, they mean very little. Also which elite teams would have Fellaini off of us? None would, he is fit and key for a certain type of team, but not a top level team, just Benteke/ Carroll!
5 - I'm not arguing that managers have favourites for reasons we might not see as armchair fans, but that doesn't negate the fact that stats mean very little. Are you saying given the choice teams would have signed Crouch over Cole? Of course not, unless they were designed for Crouch up top, we are not designed for Fellaini in midfield, he doesn't fit and stops us from attacking at pace.
Anyway, it's been good to have a decent debate on here as it has been a bit quiet over the Xmas period. See you tomorrow on live chat hopefully.
01 Jan 2017 15:09:40
I think fellaini provides something different and i personally don't have anything against him. I think he is squad player that can play quite a few roles and you always need those players in a team.
Watching watford vs spurs and Deeney who is mr watford for me is clumsy, overweight and slow but he is effective in what he does for them. i think its about what the manager wants from a player and is he effective in that role.
01 Jan 2017 15:17:07
" I think its about what the manager wants from a player and is he effective in that role. " x files
couldnt agree more.
01 Jan 2017 15:21:43
Dunno jred you thought rooney should play ahead of herrera in midfield last season. which was total nonsense but you had an opinion. Fellaini is muck and Jose will get rid in the summer. Just like he says rooney is great Jose will say what suits him until he can get shut.
01 Jan 2017 15:22:47
X files Deene is a centre forward with 2 goals all season its hardly effective mate.
01 Jan 2017 15:45:04
ken
last season herrera was poor that why rooney had to play in there .
been very good this season tho .
but no matter what i think i understand that the manager be it jose or lvg no better than me or even you ( even tho u have coached at boca etc )
thats the thing yourself and a couple of others really do seem to think you know better than full time managers
remember mine was an opinion, it was lvg who actually played rooney ahead of herrera .
but you will know better than lvg from your armchair, your in a much better position to judge and probably do think you know more than lvg .
which is the point I've been trying to make . you have proved it very well cheers.
01 Jan 2017 15:50:06
ken
also you said jose would get shut of fellaini in the summer?
which he never so maybe the truth is, your wrong .
in fact you are always saying this will happen that will happen it just never does .
but rather than face the fact your wrong you just move the goal posts .
no surprise you seem to think you know better than jose and lvg, you can't see that your ever wrong.
{Ed025's Note - i see the season of goodwill is well and truly over.. :)
01 Jan 2017 16:01:21
instead of sitting in your armchair at home thinking you know what your talking about
have a go at trying to work out why a manager who works with the players everyday has a top team of experts around him makes the decisions he does.
no one will ever learn any thing if they can't see when there wrong .
lvg conte jose know far more than you pal . that's why they are managers and not pretending to .
you may want a player to be sold, you may not rate a player but lvg and co know best.
01 Jan 2017 16:17:20
Not always Jred - you are wrong, they do not always know best.
More often than not they have been correct if they have been successful in the game, but they can be wrong and frequently are - hence losing their jobs or even losing games!
01 Jan 2017 16:17:22
The wig has grown on me to be honest.
01 Jan 2017 16:19:19
Ken
I am not talking about how many goals he has but it seems like he is so vital to their set up and his scoring this year is probably why they are struggling.
01 Jan 2017 16:35:09
It's simple really, Fellaini (like Deeney) is a player the team needs to be built around to get the best out of, otherwise he is pretty ineffective. He isn't good enough to have a team built around him at this level, that's all it is.
01 Jan 2017 16:44:53
beast
honestly i think the top managers in the world always know better than me or you .
we all make mistakes but a top manager working with a player day in day out is in a better position to judge a player than me or you .
its nowhere near as simple as you make out .
different tactics, teams, kepping a squad happy, having different options in your squad, plan a b and c, having players that are happy being squad players, you could go on and on .
a manager makes a million decisions and you pick up on one of them .
01 Jan 2017 16:52:18
fellaini is a good player for belgium and they don't build the team around him.
01 Jan 2017 18:04:40
I've always liked Fellaini to be honest, yes he is limited in his game but he does the job asked of him effectively most of the time.
I've known him to be absolutely ripped to pieces on here even if he was our best player in the game, IMO he takes a lot of stick simply because people made there minds that they didn't want him when we bought him.
01 Jan 2017 16:07:46
ed25
maybe a few hangovers knocking about.
every footy fan in the world think they know more better than the manager.
only a few believe it ( i hope )
01 Jan 2017 19:47:08
I can feel the love on here - happy new year!
01 Jan 2017 21:05:15
Not good enough to start. Not a bad option in the squad.
Jose says he is happy and the player too. Let's see if that's the truth come the summer.
Some good posts above!