22 Jul 2018 13:58:32
Just a quick stats on martial which doesn't seem to make sense to me. Wondering if anyone could explain why he's treated differently to this player.
Eden hazard one of my favourite non man utd players. In his best season imo when jose won the league at chelsea (2014/ 15) he scored 14 goals and got 9 assists. Bearing in mind he takes penalties and was a very consistent starter that seems a fair return for a good attacking player.
Bear in mind this season by hazard led mourinho to claim hazard was in an elite tier of players below ronaldo and messi, maybe third best player in the world.
Last season by february martial has 9 goals and 5 assists. Taking into account he's a main penalty taker and was very much an inconsistent starter (didnt even play the last part of the season) . It seems he would have pretty much matched that very good season by hazard. Yet this is a player deemed dispensable by mourinho and some posters on here wouldn't bat an eyelid if he left.
My question is why the different reaction from mourinho and the wider footballing community to martial than there is to hazard?
How can one player be on the verge of a career defining move to real madrid yet the other need to kickstart a stalling career elsewhere from old trafford?
22 Jul 2018 14:08:57
Because when you watch Hazard you think ‘there’s a player who is making a difference in this game’, when you watch Martial you think ‘why is he drifting out of this game’. He’s very talented but he needs to be more involved.
22 Jul 2018 14:18:43
Absolutely ajh, i'm not disputing who the better player is, obviously its hazard.
But the stats seems to indicate that the gulf isn't that big for martial to become that consistent difference maker the top players are.
Also bear in mind hazard won player of the year in that season so is he overhyped or is martial underrated.
Genuinely seems ludicrous to me that we are looking to sell him this season. Almost like selling roomey or ronaldo before the 2006-07 season. Imagine if we did that and brought in some hardened experienced players who wouldn't let us down.
22 Jul 2018 14:36:19
And what have the rest done? City's brought another attacking player the didn't need. Chelseas signing another highly combustible Italian manager. Arsenal haven't exactly set the pulses racing but could be the danger team. Spurs haven't done anything. Yet were worse than all of them.
22 Jul 2018 14:43:24
Sorry wrong thread.
22 Jul 2018 14:45:03
Stats only tell a very tiny part of the story dsg.
Martial has some talent but he has never lived up to the hype never fulfilled his potential and unless something changes soon he will lose the best years of his career.
I think he is right to request a move. I hope he does well elsewhere if he does move. Pity he never put his heart snd soul into playing on the right.
22 Jul 2018 15:31:03
Agree with Ken. Stats are for commentators to fill the time with. Ultimately they mean next to nothing - as clearly highlighted by the fact Hazard and Martial on paper don't look too different.
I really rate Martial, think he will do well with a team that has a manager who will play to his strengths. He has a lot to improve, but as proven by Sanchez and Rashford it doesn't matter who plays on the left we get similar types of erratic and generally poor overall performances - down to the system, style rather than those players being poor. Would help if they had a proper LB and runners from midfield as well mind.
22 Jul 2018 15:40:10
Its not the style beast its tje players we have. Hazard was uk player of the year under jise when they win the title. Same style same manager.
No full backs over lapping no runners from midfield don't help for sure. With better players the play will improve. But asking young valencia fellaini mata herrera rojo darmian jones smalling young to improve is just crazy. They couldn't do it for moyes or lvg none of them were even 1st choice for fergie 6 years ago if they were here.
But listen to some people on hete its jose's fault tbeir crap.
Well its not they have been crap for years.
22 Jul 2018 16:00:41
Absolutely Ken, fully agree.
Core of that squad has been there for years consistently underperforming and every manager gets the blame.
22 Jul 2018 16:13:14
Again I agree mate in the main. Although the manager does keep picking them and hasn't changed the style.
Poor all over for me.
22 Jul 2018 16:15:16
Managers keep extending their contracts!
22 Jul 2018 16:23:55
Pep wasnt told by persons to improve zabaletta or sagna or kolorov or ieanacho or navas or fernando or toure or hart or nasari etc etc by their supporters because it was obvious they were not up to playing for pep in his style.
Nobidy telling klopp you were in cl final last year make karius and milner better and win it next year.
He bought karius. his own man but found out he was not good enough but nobody telling him it was his signing just improve him.
22 Jul 2018 16:47:22
Ffs beast who else can he pick? if nobody comes in then he has to pick them. The style is the oitput of poor players.
Lvg style crap. Moyes style crap last 3 year under gergie crap style 2 years under jose crap style. mmm is it the style or the players.
Pep couldn't get poor players playing his style but is jose meant to get poor players playing well?
A couple of our resident loons would make you believe its the managers fault. If i were jose i'd walk out if woodward doesn't bring the players required in.
Nobody could make a silk purse outta the sows ears we have.
At least 3 players for the 1st 11 maybe 4 and get rid of at least half a dozen of the average joes.
22 Jul 2018 16:54:10
ken Pep did not keep picking above players above his own signings like mourinho has done, Bailly and Lindelof were being benched by mourinho for smalling and jones, can't blame woodward or glazers or the players for that.
Not every player can be improved by a manager especially older ones who weren't good to begin with, but what about good players. Other than lingard who still blows hot and cold, no one really has improved under mourinho, rashford, martial, pogba all have gone backwards, these aren't bad players just being badly managed.
22 Jul 2018 17:21:05
Hazard, plays wonder football when isolated. He retains the ball, helps his team get out, wins freekicks and makes goals for his team when there is often very little on.
Martial scored some good goals, many when he was coming on towards the end of games. When starting he struggled to impose himself on the game. At times he looks like he is waiting for someone else to take charge - doesn't seem to realise that it is his role to go and take a risk and make something happen.
I agree, if he had fully committed to right wing/ forward I feel he could have played much more through the season. He needs games and confidence.
22 Jul 2018 17:25:02
Hazard had a big fall out with Jose was awful in the last season and at one point walked of the pitch.
22 Jul 2018 17:26:20
86 points playing defensive football.
Jose doing what Jose does.
22 Jul 2018 18:00:44
Hazard was player of year under jose and won the epl playing attacking football.
Ronaldo balon dor winner under jose at madrid won the league playing attacking record breaking football.
For every ying there is a yang.
22 Jul 2018 19:48:14
Ken exactly
Pogba was considered a world class player when we bought him how's that worked out .
Sanchez was a world class player when we bought him how's that looking?
We have Mata twice Chelsea player of the season .
Lukaku a Jose striker for 90 mill
The world class Sanchez highest paid player in the world.
We bought Miki german player of the year .
Martial great young player
Rasford great young player
Pogba one of the biggest names in world football
Matic too class cm .
Bailly great player but can't get in the team
Lindelof everyone but mainly you told me what a great player he was . Can't get In the team
Ddg best goal keeper in the world.
I've missed a few out .
But we haven't got the players to play attractive football?
Bournemouth have.
22 Jul 2018 19:59:25
Was saying it all through last season. Too many players underachieving season after season. Manager after manager. Players who should be gone but too content to sit on big wages.
22 Jul 2018 21:18:49
Mort but the players we have just bought are underachieving it's not just the ones that have been at the club for a while
The same players pogba for example look great at other clubs .
Lindelof bought last season can't get in the team . Miki sold lindelof can't get in the team .
Sanchez world class player been average if I am being nice .
We need to get rid of smalling, not bailly or lindelof who the can't get in the team?
23 Jul 2018 01:49:58
Yes that's what the club and manager want jred. Back them its the right thing to do imo too.
23 Jul 2018 09:09:55
Ken and Mort, i think you misunderstood Jred's point. He is saying that we have a lot of very good players, which we all agree with, but they're not playing well due to the manager. Whether its tactics, man management etc.