25 Feb 2018 02:26:49
Chelsea are a good side, Champions from last season and appear to stayed with their manager for the time being at least. It won't be easy but it is at OT so we have a good chance as we should have.
Negativity seems to be the favourite mode at the moment led and fed by Beast. Yet we have been in far worse places in recent seasons, we are now competing at the top which we haven't done since SAF was around.
So many on here seem to think the football when SAF was around was beautiful, yet it wasn't, we didn't play expansive football for SAF final years or at other times as well but usually got the job done. I see the appoint a young manager, experience doesn't matter, no doubt after a year playing nice unsuccessful football those people will be happy that we have become irrelevant but the football is nice. We are having a dose of reality, a giant club that appointed two wrong managers allowed the team to fester due to Glazernomics and it needs fixing. If you think a young inexperienced manager can fix not just the first team but every level of the club you are deluded.
This isn't fifa2017 or whatever you play, once you get a manager you can't just keep pressing reset. I am not Jose's biggest fan but he has a difficult job with the state the club has been in, the club needs to take its medicine deal with the issues created over a long time. It happened to Liverpool, SAF knocked them off their perch and they didn't recover, we are trying to recover not from 5 years but nearer 9 years, the decline started then, as it did in 1969.
Finally we are seen as arrogant fans and it's not surprising, we have no devine right to win. I may be thousands of miles away right now but would love to be at OT today to support the team. I think we will win 2.1 good luck to the lads.
25 Feb 2018 04:40:11
"I am not Jose's biggest fan", unless you are a completely different redman to one who normally posts here or I am suddenly in some comic book alternate dimension this is LoL worthy. Every match chat people including me are justly and sometimes unjustly criticizing mourinho and you are there defending him at every turn and blaming everyone else, though normally it's fergie and Glazer's fault.
I agree the football under SAF in his last years wasn't that good but no one is saying it was, nor is anyone asking for breathtaking football, is expecting a manager who has spent 300 mn to maybe show some balls and attack teams like Huddersfield expecting too much.
We park the bus routinely whether the opponent is Man City or Sevilla, what's worse is even the bus parking is poor as it is normally ddg who makes sure we don't concede not our defense. You talk about SAF's football but please show me a game in SAF's 25+ years where we were as negative as we were against City away last season or Liverpool away this season.
How many millions does Jose needs to spend before we say enough? You say this isn't FIFA yet he has spent money like it is, but when fans expect football half as good we are arrogant.
Even the money he has spent looks not so great, Pogba has been average until now and mourinho seems to have fallen out with him now to make matters worse. The 500k man has performed worse than martial was in his position and now there are reports that martial wants to leave because he doesn't seem to think mourinho trusts him. The Everton player we spent big money on is performing at the Everton level, playing well against bottom table rubbish but put a half decent team against him and he goes into a shell dragging utd with him. Matic looks bang average after a god start, mkhi was a failure and lindelof will join him on that list unless there is dramatic improvement.
But hey let's all trust Mourinho. So what if you were pitching a fit since the day Moyes was announced without giving him even a day to prove himself, heck you moaned about a 4-1 win in his opening weekend. But people point out actual faults that mourinho has they are arrogant and playing FIFA.
25 Feb 2018 06:22:16
“Fed and led by Beast†is a bit harsh mate. As is “the decline started 9 years agoâ€, despite us winning the league in 2009, 2011, and 2013. I agree that SAF’s final few years saw him squeeze every last drop out of the squad he had but isn’t that the key point here? Jose has a far far better squad with some very good players yet he doesn't seem capable of squeezing the bare minimum out of them at the moment. After last year, disappointing football but 2 trophies, I think we all expected us to push on with the signings we made but it hasn’t happened.
Now there are suggestions of a fall out with Pogba, if that mobilises the rest of the players then great but how did we get here. Jose’s famed man management skills appear to be lacking and as I have said several times, I don’t think he is the same Manager any more. His approach is starting to look outdated and he isn’t having the effect on players he used to have when he first arrived.
I th No you are Leighton older than me but I’m not arrogant, I’ve been there through the ‘70’s and 80’s when we were at best a cup team. But you know what? Other than Sexton I enjoyed going to games. Lately, watching us has become painful, made even worse by seeing the football that City, Liverpool, and Spurs play.
So, just to be clear.
1. Jose is nowhere near getting the best out of these players.
2. The way we play is not the United way and if this is how we win trophies then I am not interested.
3. Win today and we maybe get a moment to regather and press again. Lose, and the momentum is with others and God knows how Jose will react.
Jose is apparently one of the best Managers in the world, according to some on here, the best. He needs to start showing it.
25 Feb 2018 06:48:46
CSM
No I am not Mourinhos biggest fan. If I was I would have wanted him at every opportunity. So let’s be clear, again, I wanted him when SAF retired because we needed a manager of his stature to stop us falling off the cliff, which we then did. Moyes was the utter disaster I expected and to replace him I wanted Klopp. When they put lvg in place I wasn’t impressed but thought the club must have a long term plan to appoint Pep once LVG had set the basics as he did at Barca. It turned out to be another error, compounded by not getting Pep. I defended LVG as I am Jose because their CV said they deserve time, Jose’s far more than LVG. When the club failed to line up Pep who I wanted to replace LVG the only answer for me was to go for Jose because we had dug ourselves into a big hole.
AJH
Sextons football was far worse, to the point we used to sit down on the Stretford End and read the programme. Atkinson played good football but again I stood on the End singing about how we had won eff all again. All the while the Liverpool machine won everything.
I support the manager in this instance, you mention how he handles players well does the club support the manager or the player, one brings anarchy. So for me I think we need to support the rebuild and if next season it is the same he will naturally come under pressure. The board sets his objectives and unless they say pretty football is required he has time. I think we need to build solidity a base to attack from and we will flow better then.
25 Feb 2018 07:06:37
Red Man, I see what you are saying but it comes down to has Jose still got it? I don’t think he has and I don’t see him lasting beyond next year. Whilst we are coming at it from different angles I guess we agree that he needs to start to show progress next year. We could finish second this year, or we could finish 5th.
25 Feb 2018 07:20:27
AJH
Lost it? He won 2 major trophies with a side that finished out of the top four. I get what you are saying but the club needs some stability just now and I don’t think another change helps. We haven’t got a strong spine in CD or CM and if he strengthens there I feel we will be better next season. If we aren’t then Jose will be under pressure.
25 Feb 2018 08:20:41
Morning guys,
Important afternoon ahead as we enter a pivotal part of the season.
I must confess I'm with Red Man here. He's lived though the transition of Busby and sees the same mistakes being made again. I think it's wise to heed his warning.
The whole pretty football thing is a bit of a red herring for me. Let's be honest it's a results business, just ask Arsenal fans. If we apply some common sense to the debate if you are playing attractive football but not winning matches then surely that points to deficiencies elsewhere. As is everything in life it's all about balance.
We'd all like to see attractive, attacking football, I'm no different and I get frustrated at times but results matter more, a lot more. Attacking football won't keep you in a job.
Jose has the personality and the pedigree to move us forward in my opinion. Yes his style can be frustrating at times but so can a lot of our players. Lingard, Martial, Rashford, Lukaku, Mata and Pogba still blow hot and cold.
Let's set realistic targets. Jose is 18 months into his rebuilding programme and in general the calibre of his signings have been excellent. If he were to walk away in the summer the next manger would be inheriting a far superior squad to which he took over.
Let's have patience, results and performances are poor at the moment and they must improve soon or Jose will ultimately pay the consequences.
Progress is slower than I expected but I'm happy with Jose's recruitment and I'd be satisfied with a top 4 finish for now. Give him another transfer window and let's see where we are this time next year.
I realise this may be an unpopular post but Jose is a winner. Let's trust his pedigree, we can all see his recruitment has been good. I think he deserves more time despite all the reservations about his style and personality.
25 Feb 2018 08:21:03
Red Man - I notice you never addressed CSM's points about how Jose's signings are performing, do you think his tactics are holding them back or is this the best we can expect from them.
Yes Fergie didn't always go gung ho but we looked like we were playing to a plan whereas we look like a team of strangers at the moment with no plan.
Just because people criticise José doesn't mean that we all think he should be sacked, I want him to maximise the resources he available to him. I think our strength is our attack so let's play to our strengths especially against the so called lesser teams. Even when Fergie parked the bus he had one eye on a counter attack using our speedy attackers to score, something I don't currently see.
As for today I haven't got a clue about the result, I think we are capable of both beating or losing to anyone in the league.
25 Feb 2018 08:38:55
Keanooh
Apologies but am sat by a beach in the Far East after lunchtime refreshments. Jose purchases are better than the remaining SAF Moyes or LVG ones. I think the team are looking over their shoulder at the uncertainty in the centre of defence and that is defining tactics. Strengthen the spine and next season I believe we will be better. Overall there may be a struggle, power wise, the players too cushy in where they are, we have to support the manager on that. We are hard to beat and that is the base for the next phase.
The players are not performing to their best but whilst some look at the manager I also look at the players who too often get away Scot free. I was at OT when there was criticism of Giggs and Becks, at half time Giggs got stick because he was playing poorly but seemingly not trying whilst Becks was playing poorly but trying and got no stick. It’s time there is some heat on the players.
25 Feb 2018 09:03:39
Danny - why does it have to be one or the other between winning and attacking football. Do you really believe that with the attacking players available to us this is the best we can do.
Like Red Man I saw the Busby transition which was a shambles, but how many years do we go on about the Fergie transition he left nearly 5 years ago, surely the transition has taken place. We are now in 'steady state' business and like most clubs we will change managers every 3 - 5yrs, also with Jose's previous record he won't be here that long. I can think of 2 teams who have won the league in the last 3 years who have changed their managers on a regular basis yet they have remained successful, that's the football world today.
I agree with Red Man that Fergie left an ageing squad but we have already made a mess of the transition as the club didn't display a vision of how we wanted to move forward which has resulted in numerous signings who have come and gone and also managers with contrasting styles. With this lack of vision we could end up with our next manager playing a completely different style to José so we would have to rebuild all over again.
25 Feb 2018 09:13:58
Redman weakness in cm and CD, what exactly are pogba, matic, Bailly and lindelof for? Next season we sell ddg it will be we don't have a keeper as good and that will be defining the tactics.
Also please show me a jose player who has been better than either martial or ddg this season?
Also what power struggle are you talking about? Lingard, Jones, Ddg, Smalling, Valencia and Young are the only remaining SAF players of all those only DDG has anything that would resemble power and he is the one that is propping mourinho's anti football.
All these are excuses, factis what mourinho lacks or rather lost at Madrid can't be fixed and much like Lvg we need to dump him. We need a new manager as this one isn't really going to take us forward.
25 Feb 2018 09:17:27
Red Man - José attempted to strengthen the centre of the defence but Bailly is injured most of the time and the jury is out on Lindelof.
I'm not sure I go with the hard to beat because in the big games against the top EPL teams our record is poor, defeats to Chelsea, City and Spurs a couple of draws and only one win. Most seasons it's the results against the top teams that decide who the champions are.
I agree that some of the players don't appear to be giving everything.
25 Feb 2018 10:39:19
CSM
I suspect a couple of players are having a hissy fit, a bit of it’s not fair. If the club don’t back the manager in dealing with them it will be a downward slope. You quote Martial as an example of playing well, to me he is inconsistent, goes missing in key games, plays when it suits. Just my impression, extremely talented but head needs to be right to deliver.
Lindelof, at the price seemed like we bought a potential player, with the club as it is who is making the decisions? Hopefully the manager has an approval but some buys have a feel of potential with increase in value as the reason. SAF didn’t get all the buys right, but the club didn’t buy at a time of strength, putting it in weaker situations. Sell Ronaldo buy Valencia, Rio, Vidic leave? We should have had a good core when SAF left but didn’t so are building almost from scratch
A team needs moulding and another dumping of Manager is naive right now.
25 Feb 2018 10:49:30
Red man, you say we haven't got a strong spine yet Jose has spent 30m on Bailly, 35m on Lindelof, 35m on Matic and 89m on Pogba. So what your saying is Jose has spent 189m on the spine of the team and yet none of them are performing.
Are they had players and therefore bad purchases by Jose? Or is Jose failing to get the best out of them therefore bad management by Jose?
It has to be one of the other?
25 Feb 2018 12:21:00
Jose signings out of 10 so far:
Pogba 5,
Mikhy 3,
Lukaku 6,
Lindelof 4,
Bailly 4, always injured
Sanchez too early, not great so far.
25 Feb 2018 12:34:04
Shappy
Short reply but Matic and Lindelof are not bad players, they are good ones. However they are not the long term top quality United need to challenge at the top, to me they had the feel of stopgap. City spent more on their fullbacks. The two key positions of our spine still need to be addressed.
25 Feb 2018 13:05:22
Keanooh - I'd like both mate but for now I'm happy to be patient and trust Jose's pedigree. I like the calibre of player he's brought to the Club and I just think he deserves a bit more time.
I understand the reservations regarding his style of play and even his character and share most people's frustrations.
I can see merit in the argument that he should be getting more out of the squad, that's he spent a lot of money but sometimes things just take time.
I think it's premature just to dismiss the two trophies he won last year and the title success with Chelsea only two years ago and think he's outdated and lost it but It's hard to win trophies, just ask Wenger, Potch and Klopp.
I'm by no means jumping for joy but I'm prepared to wait for another season at least and see what direction he takes us.