15 Mar 2017 06:24:06
The Pogba situation is very amusing because in my opinion there are people who are sitting on the ‘I will defend Pogba at all costs’ side of the fence who will not say one bad word about him. Why? I am not sure. Maybe they like his haircut or have purchased a pair of his new boots recently. Maybe they enjoy dabbing so much they cannot think of a United in the modern era without the dab and ridiculous dance moves. I don’t know for sure.
There are posters who have posted facts – solid facts – further down the page and are being told they are wrong. Pogba is the most expensive player ever – fact. He has not lived up to that tag yet – fact. It is worrying that yet again a fancy name and media darling is lowering some folks inhabitations to think rationally and open their eyes to a problem. For the record I do not think Pogba has been abysmal this season but he has not been anywhere near the level of player I expect him to be both now and in the future.
I do not believe Pogba is in the top 5 midfield players in his position in the PL let alone the world. My big problem with Paul was again for all to see in the Chelsea game which is unforgivable – the way he laughs and jokes after the game with the opposition whilst fans are hurting in the stands when he has played poorly. Pogba should be leaving that for the tunnel especially after a passionless display. It is awful to see when the adrenaline is still pumping.
As for the fee, well I am not convinced he will ever be good enough to be the real undisputed MVP of the game. I don’t think the potential is there to be great both mentally and ability wise. Don’t get me wrong he is a good player but that is all he will ever be in my view. So why did United spend all that money on Paul? Maybe they were looking to rejuvenate the UK economy by helping hairdressers salons full and dance schools appeal to the kids. Maybe they wanted to pull in a crowd of trendy ‘dabbers’ to Old Trafford rather than the feisty working class man. One thing is for sure the fee wasn’t paid based pure on footballing ability and commitment to the game that is for sure.
15 Mar 2017 08:16:50
I never got the hype about Pogba. I'm not a Serie A watcher so I only saw him in the CL and in internationals when he was at Juve and he never blew my socks off. Ferguson got terrible stick for not handing him the keys to Old Trafford when he was 19. He was right. Pogba would have got his chance if he was good enough but he threw his toys out of the pram and left. He's a massively over-rated footballer for whom we have paid 40 or 50 million pounds too much for.
15 Mar 2017 08:26:36
Even if we ignore the haircuts, the post match casual attitude and his huge fee, the basic fact is Pogba has not been at the level expected of a Manchester United midfielder.
He has been a complete passenger in all the games against the top 5 teams and there are 4 more of those to come in the EPL. His off the ball mobility is exactly that of Marouane Fellaini. Pogba doesn't control the pace and tempo of games and as a midfielder one expects him to do that.
He is physically strong but consistently loses the ball when pressed due to poor positioning and decision making. For a man his size he isn't particularly good in the air either. In fact his size makes him a lot more clumsy and susceptible to give away fouls in dangerous positions like Fellaini.
I don't know why everyone was expecting so much of him though or this huge potential that everyone says there is in him. He played exactly like this for 3 years at Juve and always looked lost when pressed in high intensity games. His decision making in the final third has always been inconcistent.
I think people had made an image of Pogba in their heads as this great midfielder that we let get away and who could have been our savior in our dire midfield for the past 2-3 years without actually watching him play for Juve. I regularly heard that he was like Yaya Toure or a box to box midfielder, when he is not. He isn't as skilful as Toure and simply has never waltzed through opposition like Toure does. In fact he is only effective on the left side of a midfielder 3 and limits us to playing a 4-3-3 or 3-5-2 which means Mkhitaryan (our best creative player) can't play in his favorite position.
It was actually Pirlo and Vidal that were the real heroes in that Juve midfield and carried Pogba who was always a luxury passenger. Had people actually watched him play at Juve the expectations wouldn't be nearly as high and I posted as much previously and got castigated for it. Herrera is having to do the work of two midfielders.
I agree with you Maze. He is a decent player and against the lesser sides who sit back and give him space he plays better but that is all he will ever be imo.
15 Mar 2017 08:40:54
Wow. I guess we lost the last game then and Rooney didn't play so who else to have a go at. There are 11 players on a team but none of you are having a go at Herrera for a stupid foul or any of the other players that didn't step up and win us the match. Give the guy a break. He didn't set the price.
15 Mar 2017 08:44:24
The fee in reality to me means nothing. We have the money so spend it. Pogba costing 90 million doesn't change what i would expect of a first choice centre mid and put simply he hasn't delivered to the standard i would expect of a Man United first team player.
He has been invisble in virtually all our big games this season and hardly touched it against Chelsea twice.
I do get the point about him hitting the post and being unlucky but that argument would go both ways so trying to beat 3 players in the middle of the park whilst you have players breaking forward is just either very stupid or very arrogant. He did this against Liverpool at OT and again on Monday night. He constantly chooses the wrong passing option especially when he is surrounded by opposition players. It's almost like he wants to beat them all and say "look how good i am".
He trys to over complicate things and just needs to put the effort in, keep it simple and learn to shoot.
All the nonsense with his silly haircuts, stupid dances and twitter bull is not helping. If he wants to be arrogant and give it the big "I AM" then he will be judged more harshly and needs to deliver more. If he wants to knuckle down, work hard and cut out all the crap then he will be given a break.
I think AJH mentioned the constant joking and hugging players at the full time whistle, which to me looks like he not bothered in the slightest when we loose. If he can do that it's not hurting him enough when we get beat.
I still belive he will get better and improve however Mourinho giving him a free role and license to do what he wants is clearly not working. He needs guidance and needs to learn when to just play it short and wait for a better opening rather than trying to play the killer ball all the time. Keeping the ball and moving the oppistion around will creeate openings and it doesn't have to happen everytime he has the ball at his feet.
I have these high standards for every United player because i love the club 1st and 2nd because we are one of the biggest clubs in the world who should have great players playing for it. This is a standard set by those who have worn the shirt with pride before the likes of Pogba.
In short his price tag doesn't effect how i judge him and for me he has failed to deliver enough when we have needed him most.
15 Mar 2017 08:46:29
I don't know what people moaning about paul pogba actually want. We don't have better players to play in his position right now. I haven't seen any poster defending paul pogba so far. All agree he hasn't lived up to the potential but seriously what were you expecting him to do.
He was never going to be a ronaldo, bale, messi etc. He is a god damn central midfielder who is playing in a new system with a new set of responsibilities.
100mil were paid by us because we were desperate for a big name, other interested clubs, was a top midfielder with great potential and would sell a lot of jersey's.
About his social life, haircuts, dabs and all the bullcrap i have one thing to say i don't give a damn. Its his life he can do whatever he wants as long he is happy.
Now talking about what good he has done for us. He has formed a good partnership with ander herrera so far and apart from maybe the chelsea and man city games which we played earlier in the season i can't see any other game where we were outplayed especially in midfield so far.
So yes he hasn't been worth 100mil this season. But looking at him based purely as a midfielder i think he has done very well in his first season.
Hopefully he starts to shine next season with a quality few additions to the team.
15 Mar 2017 09:22:05
Let's give Pogba loads of rope. Then people on here can decide how long it is. It's been boreing for many years whilst I've been on this site. It's all about the price tag now. Let's hound him out of the club.
15 Mar 2017 09:39:18
Well if were going to sell him for being pally with the opposition after a defeat we would have had to sell our whole squad after we lost 4-0 to chelsea in october.
15 Mar 2017 10:00:07
DSG is that the same game which Pogba celebrated with the Chelsea squad afterwards?
15 Mar 2017 10:10:10
It wasn't me, my point was that I have yet to see him dominate a game. It's frustrating because likes he could and should but it isn't happening for him. Supa, this isn't about hounding him, it's debate and discussion. Chorlton, of course his price tag matters. It makes him the most expensive player in the world and we expect a bit more than we are seeing so far.
It's his first season, the pace is different and his potion is not clear so let's hope he settles and steps us and becomes the player we all think he can.
15 Mar 2017 11:33:02
First off why does a player have to live upto a price tag?
The player doesn't decide how much he is sold for, he doesn't force the buying club to spend the money.
How much a player costs is the worst possible barometer to measure how well a player is currently playing. Its only ever used as a stick to beat a player down.
As for your "facts" I'll concede that he is the most expensive player, that is indeed a fact. But whether he has lived upto that is completely speculative and therefore can never be a fact. Personally I agree, I don't think he has lived upto the billing yet. My question is whether that is because the expectation levels are too high? Or due to his performances?
Truth is its both. His performaces could be better, especially against the top teams. And he should have scored a few more considering the number of shots he takes on.
But in many areas he is our top performer, and I think he takes all the flak for the WHOLE TEAM underperforming even when he has arguably been one of our best players on the day and over the season.
I think that comes from two elements, first off people seem to struggle to get past the fee we paid for him, and secondly I think people are still a little sore about him leaving in the first place.
People seem to expect more from him, and judge him far more harshly than other players. People move the goalposts, no one ever complained that Zidane didn't play like Makelele. Yet slate Pogba for not being more like Kante.
As for people being either one side of the fence or the other. I think it becomes hard to give a balanced view as it get jumped on. In my post yesterday I stated that he hasn't yet lived up to my expectations. But I also accepted that my expectations may be unfairly high. Then presented some facts about his performances that suggest he hasn't been poor at all, in fact in many areas he has been our best player.
Does he need to improve? Of course he does. Is he the only one? Not by a long shot.
His performances on the whole have ranged between decent and good. Only once or twice has he been poor. But neither has he been great. The problem is to put in a great performance you need your team mates to put in at least good performances too. Football is a team game and without a good team around you it becomes almost impossible to perform to your best.
He looked better at Juve because he had a better team around him. Arguably the best defence in world football, Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio in midfield alongside him. Tevez, Dybala in front of him. How many players of that quality do we have?
Here's a curve ball maybe Herrera's up turn in form is because he has. A better midfield partner to play with?
{Ed004's Note - Very good post}
15 Mar 2017 11:54:01
Again a very good post mate!
15 Mar 2017 12:20:16
A very very good post Shappy.
15 Mar 2017 12:36:05
His fee really does not matter AJH. As shappy says he doesn't set it and can't control. It's not our money and if we didn't spend i guess the glazers would have put it safely in the bank like the Ronaldo money, 80 million, all those years ago!
Did anyone actually find out what happend to that money?
No need to answer that by the way.
Yeah it's the Glazers money and they can do what they want with it so they kept it. Point being if we hadn't have signed him nothing would have changed apart from the Glazers would be a bit richer so in that respect his fee makes no difference. It also makes no difference to how i judge him. He's a United player and gets judged the same as the rest.
At the moment he can do better as can a few more like Martial and Shaw.
This like many have said before this is a site to debate and show opinions and that's what we are all doing not trying to single him out and get him out of the club.
15 Mar 2017 13:11:38
Shappy
You have been going on about how much rooney earns for 3 year now.
The sad fact is for fans players had to live up to reputations and if they don't a fan will find any stick to beat him with .
A manager will just pick his best option.
15 Mar 2017 17:41:49
Of course the fee matters. Think how many players we could have bought with £90M. If you spend that sort of money then you expect to be buying a match winner.