09 Feb 2015 14:08:10
Right I will say this first, I am NOT in the sack LvG camp, and I don't agree with ever sacking a manager during the season. I didn't agree with it with Moyes even though we all knew he wasn't good enough.
But here's my analysis of the issues we are having with our performances atm.
First off I'll start with Falcao. Now we all wanted him to be in the team. When he did get a few minutes in a game he would have great movement, his runs were great and a joy to watch. But LvG said he needed to work more for the team and learn his way of playing. Now as a first team player he isn't making those runs, he's playing deep and generally not doing the things we wanted him to do and the reasons we wanted him in the team.
Di Maria when he first came to us was full of running and taking risks with his passing and his shoot on sight mentality. And in those first few games he looked amazing and easily a 60m player. Now however he isn't making the same runs, he isn't taking those shots from distance and his passing has become safer and less risky.
Rooney has been played in midfield but he looks nothing like a good midfielder let alone a world class one. Yet Ander Herrera can't get a game, but when he does come on he makes those risky passes, he drives forward and creates chances and we look much more fluid in attack. That's why we want him in the team.
But I would say that he won't get into the team until he curbs his attacking mentality and becomes a safer passer of the ball.
LvG wants balance and control, his teams gain this through possession. If you have the ball then there is no danger to defend, if you have the ball then you can attack your opponents and control the tempo of the game. There is nothing wrong with possession football, in fact if we were smarter with possession and held it better under Sir Alex then we would have achieved more in Europe during his time. It was when we played 433 with Quieroz as number two and had better possession of the ball that we had our best time in Europe under Sir Alex.
But Possession without running and tempo changes with probing and stretching of the opposition is just possession for the sake of defence. People are surprised by our defensive record considering the general poor quality of our defence, well we have defended much better since the first couple of months because of this possession style that LvG has implemented, but that has come at a cost of our attacking intent.
My hope is that once LvG has better defenders and has that stability at the back that he will allow the forward thinking players to return to a more attack leaned mentality. Unfortunately we won't see that until the start of next season. Don't expect a swashbuckling style to return this season. We have poor defenders and LvG is being pragmatic in his approach and has set his team up to cover for their deficiences. And until they have been addressed he won't change.
If Herrera want's to play football this season he better learn to pass sideways and backwards.
09 Feb 2015 14:31:21
My thoughts exactly.
The manager will get us back into the CL at all costs. It is as simple as that really IMO.
Falcao was one of the best strikers i have ever seen playing as a lone striker on the defenders shoulder in and around the box.
Lvg wants him to play deeper and its just not his game .
Di maria was excellent last year playing in a midfield 3 he looked good at the start of the season playing deeper .
For some reason lvg now wants him to play the 10 role.
Its the opposite with rooney, before xmas he played the 10 role, was our top scorer and probably best outfield player. So of course he got moved to cm, i'm not sure he has scored since . The amount of chances we create with rooney playing so deep has also dropped .
I still haven't seen any improvement under lvg from the start of the season .
There are major issue with lvgs tactics that have been covered before, now that other teams are playing well it seems even the most pro lvg supporters are starting to see it
This maybe a correct analysis but the key to possession is in the midfield and playing Rooney, a forward, at the hub, causes the concept to fail ab initio. He himself doesn't have the short passing skills or movement to control the play or bring his teammates into it. Thus he's being wasted. Di Maria has one foot, and not the greatest control, so, again as a possession midfielder he just doesn't cut the mustard. As good a team as Real were last season, they were not cut from the same mold as Barcelona - much more cut and thrust like the United of old - the United we all seem to want to see again.
You can't mollycoddle the defence for ever. At some point in time it would be greta to see what would happen if we actually play to the qualities of our players, rather than the philosophy. The match against Burnley would be a good opportunity to have a go.
In the end though if this style (or lack of it) gets us back into the top 4 - and I have my doubts it will - will we mark this down to acceptable pragmatism?
The thing is that he isn't even playing possession football anymore. When it was 5 at the back you could see that it was about sustaining possession and protecting the defence. Yesterday the only midfield player capable of holding onto possession was Blind. The idea that Herrera isn't being played because he won't curb his attacking drive or play safer in possession falls flat when Januzaj instead. We could barely hold onto to the ball for more than a few passes yesterday, and West Ham were passing us off the park. As far as I can see there is no coherent philosophy, just a man making mistake after mistake with team selection and set up.
The fact of the matter is that we are playing too many players out of position, and asking other players to curb what they do well so that they fit some confused image of where van Gaal sees the team going. The defence isn't the problem, the problem is that van Gaal isn't allowing his best players to play in the most effective way. No philosophy bull can hide the fact that the team have made minimal progress since the season started. Look at Spurs as a contrast: they had a few rocky months as the "philosophy" was put in place, but now their fitness and coherence is starting to pay off.
At the start of the season we had Herrera looking sharp, Rooney playing well up front, and Di Maria looking like he could set the league alight. Now our only consistent performer is the keeper, and the only player who seems to have benefited in any way from van Gaal is Ashley bloody Young.
Oh Shappy
You should stop trying to be football manager and typical fans solution is buy some more and stop overanalysing things mate.
Sometimes the simplest things are very hard for people to see and in this case we have a guy who is just not cut out for the job and his style of football is rubbish, sorry philosophy I meant.
I say this without any reservation we played better last year with a far worse squad riddled with injuries and old age.
The good news is that he does not need any help and will hang himself given what we are witnessing.
It sounds terrible but his job might be saved by injuries to certain players so he is forced to play people in the right position. With a full squad we are playing worse than we did when we had limitations on selections.
How can any team play well when the manager changes things every week and if after 7 months he still can't figure it out he is a imo.
Do you see mourinho, ancelloti, conte, simeone changing formations and teams week in week out?
Some of the things posted here is just pure rubbish and people are in lala land.
We can argue / debate all day - but this team under LVG is not a team that excites me as a fan in any shape or form.
I actually turned it off and missed both goals.I've never ever stopped watching before.
West Ham had Jenkinson and Tompkins in defence - 2 AWFUL players - yet we looked just as bad.
We are so boring to watch and it's game after game after game.
I don't want to see Manchester United built in LVG's image. he is not the answer.
My choice is and always will be Ancelotti.
One season removed from SAF is quickly becoming 2, and there is little evidence of improvement and the road back looks longer than ever.
Scotbos (USA)
Scot
Well I am joining you and going to stop watching us as it only leads to frustration just complete disgust and stress. Apologies for the excessive posting on the site and needless arguments with fellow supporters. I believe we will finish 5th or 6th and that is criminal IMO.
I guess we will reload come summer and go through another summer of angst and uncertainty.
Enjoy the rest of the season and hope I am wrong.
09 Feb 2015 17:15:02
Scot and GCU,
Real fans ladies and gents, real fans. If you don't want to watch during the tough times, we don't want you as fans during the good times. Embarrassed to read that, totally disgusted.
I also don't like the way we are playing under LVG but to stop watching the team you supposedly support is wrong, we may not play good football for a couple more years yet, we wasn't good the last few of fergie's years.If you want good football go and support a team you think play the football the way you want it played.I am a manchester united supporter and will patiently wait till we get it right.
GDS why don't you zip it with your 2 penny analysis. Stick to tit for tat with Beast. I've read some of the drivel you post day in and day out.
Take a good hard at what you're seeing - it's not close to good enough, and at times it is woeful.
There is no drive, no passion and zero excitement. Where is the attacking intent? the tempo? a player willing to beat his man? where is the leadership on the field? where is the leadership from the touchline?
When is the last time we played a great game?
We huff and puff and trip over our own feet week in and week out, but hey it's all good because YOU are a real fan.
You obviously ca't see the wood fro the trees If you think I'm wrong.
But just for you. come on boys!!
GDS why don't you zip it with your 2 penny analysis. Stick to tit for tat with Beast. I've read some of the drivel you post day in and day out.
Take a good hard at what you're seeing - it's not close to good enough, and at times it is woeful.
There is no drive, no passion and zero excitement. Where is the attacking intent? the tempo? a player willing to beat his man? where is the leadership on the field? where is the leadership from the touchline?
When is the last time we played a great game?
We huff and puff and trip over our own feet week in and week out, but hey it's all good because YOU are a real fan.
You obviously ca't see the wood fro the trees If you think I'm wrong.
But just for you. come on boys!!
09 Feb 2015 18:17:44
I will support the lads through thick and thin!
shocked to say the least by a few! Really am, glory hunters come to mind! Embarrassing is another.
Shappy - We looked inept going forward right from the start of the season. Even pre-season we created next to nothing every game, aside from the first one (where we were apparently jet lagged and won 7-1 - he even moans about that).
Maybe LVG needs to take a brief sabbatical and let the boys play naturally. I think there has to be a balance between players being told 100% what to do and letting their natural talent flourish - otherwise why pay £150m on superstars, when you can just buy intelligent jobsworths that will do as he says! You pay the extra £20m for the talent, the stuff you can't teach - he is stifling that.
We play like Stoke under Pulis - great for Stoke, shocking for Utd.
09 Feb 2015 19:02:12
I won't stop watching the games for anything, but the norwegian nationalteam plays more exciting football atm, and that says it all. don't think we are worst off than last season, but its not far from it.
09 Feb 2015 19:47:52
I must admit Dan, I find it hard to find valid reasons for Rooney being played in midfield and Herrera's continued absence. Putting Rooney back up top, Herrera back in CM and Di Maria back on the left would IMO transform the team. Just those few changes would make a massive difference.
09 Feb 2015 19:48:17
GCU,
Where are we in the league mate?
How many games have we lost this season?
How many big teams have we lost too this season by more than 1 goal?
We all have an opinion. You have yours and I have mine.
At the start of the season we all wanted to be back in the top four. We are currently in the top 4 and just 5 points shy of the team that won the league last season. The team that the former usless manager told everyone we need to aspire too.
I am sorry, but some of the comments are becoming stupid. Yes, we are not great to watch but we are getting the job done. Yes, some of the managers team selections and formations are confusing; but there must be reasons for them.
At the end of the day, we are in much better shape now as opposed to this time last season when we were beaing beaten every other game more or less which led to 12 defeats; 7 of them at home. As for our performance last seaosn compared to this we must have watched different games or I somehow ended up in parallel earth and watched the parallel United, because I witnessed some really bad peformances that I don't think will ever be trumped.
09 Feb 2015 19:48:57
GDS2,
If we were sitting in 7th place 10 points off of a top four position, I could understand some of the rubbish that has been airred on this forum. That said I still spent my money on going to watch the team I love. Even after witnessing embarrassment after embarrassment I kept on going.
GDS2
Your opinion and perception of a real fan means absolute nothing to me. Go play in your sandbox:)