Manchester United banter 84112

 

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25 Nov 2019 10:26:48
Well that was a roller coaster, I said I had concerns about the game the moment the starting line up was named. It wasn't just the inclusion of Jones that was a concern. Three at the back against a team that plays with three in the middle with both of their wider centre backs often stepping up into midfield.

Two top class midfielders will struggle with that as Sheffield United have shown against other top teams already this season. Having Fred and Andreas Pereira we were never going to be able to control the game.

It was a poor decision from the off. That said who else could we have played in midfield? Matic who is only just back from injury and has been poor for the last 12 months? Or do we throw one or two of the kids into the lions den. Garner and Levitt look very promising, but expecting them to carry the midfield against a team that will always create a numerical superiority in the midfield would not be best for their development.

We threw away the chance to dominate teams that play like this in the summer when we didn't bring in at least one new midfielder.

I see many want Ole's head, but is that really the best idea at this moment in time.

The real issues yesterday were the lack of options and quality in our squad. Those who question Ole's decision to take off and attacker and bring on a defender with 8 minutes to go against a side where we hadn't controlled any of the game must have been screaming blue murder when Jose was doing exactly that with 20-30 minutes to go in some games. I think it was the sub 99% of EPL managers would have made in the same situation.

If we ditch Ole now we will be at the mercy of whoever keeps making poor managerial appointments again. Will that help, ripping everything up and starting again.

Agree7 Disagree0

25 Nov 2019 10:54:13
I don’t think it’s a decision that 99% of EPL managers would make.

He took a gamble on taking off a Cm for an attacker. It paid off, but then he blew it. We were trying to see out the game with one cm, and it handed the impetus back to them. Bringing on Garner would have been a much better choice because it would have given us the chance to retain possession and frustrate them.

We took the lead, reverted back to formation that failed in the first half, and invited them back into the game.

25 Nov 2019 10:56:47
What exactly are we ripping up here?

The tactical brilliance on display from the cardiff legend, the style of football of fergie's most beloved innovative and attacking assistant, training system of management greats like micheal carrick and Kieran McKenna. What exactly are we ripping up?

There is nothing to rip up here, we have no style, we are simultaneously poor in attack and defense while also being incapable of actually keeping the ball.

Jose could actually set up a defense until he had his 3rd season meltdown, LVG had us playing possession football, it was boring and mostly useless but atleast we kept the ball. The current season resembles moyes season, except moyes had a better resume.

Right now we can't go wrong, we can have pochettino, and as bad as woodward is even he can't feck this up.

25 Nov 2019 11:02:20
sorry shappy I can't agree, if there had been 2 minutes left then yes make the change but there was 10 left, sheff utd were on the ropes, a 4th looked pretty certain but he bottled going for it.

25 Nov 2019 11:16:43
Danny, I don't know many EPL managers who would put on a recently turned 18 year old lad with less the 90 minutes of EPL football on to shore up a midfield. That's a huge gamble.

CSM, We are ripping up a long term plan, a manager who gives young players a chance so they can learn and develop over playing the old guard as he knows that it is better for the long term health of the club. A manager who looks to bring in the right sort of player for the long term rather than a short term fix.

Yesterday we scored 3 goals against a side that has only conceded 9 all season. We scored as many goals against them as BOTH Chelsea and Liverpool COMBINED.

Pochettino is a better manager than Ole no doubt, but I don't think he has the ability to succeed with us under our current set up. So it would just be more rebuilding once the foundations are in place thus delaying any chance we have of success.

25 Nov 2019 11:24:37
I fail to see how anyone could do any better with this squad. There's plenty of potential, but too many players that need to go and be replaced with the right players before any real progress can be made. If you go through the team you have:

De Gea, great first choice, a decision needs to be made in regards to Henderson, what is the long-term choice?
Romero, probably the best back-up keeper in the world.

AWB, looks like he'll be a great right back in the future, still very young, yet seen as a senior player.
Dalot, doesn't seem to be anywhere near the player Mourinho claimed he was, still young though.
Lindelöf, an OK defender, but has too many weaknesses, good rotation option.
Maguire, an all round decent defender, but not world class by any stretch.
Tuanzebe, looks very good, could see him being the leading defender within a couple of seasons, which could see a strong pairing with Maguire given time.
Jones, terrible, probably of mid to lower-table level.
Rojo, rash, reckless and error and injury prone, does have passion, but like Jones, probably mid-table level at best.
Bailly, solid, but far too injury prone and can be reckless.
Shaw, good, but has defensive weaknesses, requires a solid CB pairing.
Young, long time passed it, championship level at best.
Williams, great potential, could be the better option given a couple of seasons.

Matic, passed it, he may still be effective in a slower paced league.
McTominay, like AWB, great potential but young and considered a senior.
Pogba, can be world-class, but doesn't seem interested.
Fred, looks of the pace, even considering his recent form, makes to many simple mistakes, like not completing simple 10 meter passes and gets dispossessed all too often, could be an OK squad option.
Perreira, useless outside the number 10 position and should realistically only be considered back-up there, probably mid to lower table level.
Mata, passed it, but I do find he can offer some professionalism to the squad outside of playing. The club should seriously be looking at directing Mata into a non-football position (all the best DoF seem to be former players (Nedved, Abidal, Leonardo, Overmars. ), Mata seems to have the right intelligence and professionalism) .
Lingard, lower-table level.
Martial, can be a world-class CF within a couple of seasons, still young, but an accomplished player, probably our best outfield player.
Rashford, showing signs of his potential since he's been moved wide again, but like AWB and McTominay, considered a senior despite his young age.
James, seems like he'll be a top player, but like others, considered a senior despite his young age.
Greenwood, great potential, time will tell as with Williams.

Gomes, Chong and Garner, among other youths, show some potential, but do not seem ready for regular first team football.

I know this is long, but I think laying it bare, it shows how bad the squad is. The goalkeeping department is the only one that is sorted, to the point where either a world class, or a potentially world class goalkeeper will have to miss out.

Defence, we have one decent, not great, CB, with an OK one and one with loads of potential. Jones, Rojo and Bailly are not of the level required. On the flanks, the players are young with potential, but they cannot rely on a solid foundation in the middle which highlights any of their mistakes. Neville and Evra for example could get away with the odd error knowing Ferdinand and Vidic would mop up.

Midfield is dire, McTominay seems like he could be a great player, but the rest are either elsewhere, not good enough, or too young to give him the support he needs. The AM position is just as bad, with Perreira being mildly competent in that position, Lingard being subpar, and Mata being too slow to truly effect the game.

The forwards are full of potential, but it's that potential. They also require a better midfield to supply them if they are to do their jobs. Was horrendous yesterday seeing how little either of the front three could do.

The squad has lots of potential, but there are still too many subpar players involved to make us anything but a mid-table side. Finishing in the Europa League positions this season will be an accomplishment in its own right, regardless of the manager in charge.

Jones, Rojo, Bailly, Perreira, Lingard, Young all need to be moved on. The futures of Lindelöf, Shaw and Fred are up for debate. And Pogba needs to be sold for sanity's sake. All those would need replacing and the squad reenforced beyond that. I can't see any manager being able to do anything until those issues are sorted. LVG couldn't, Mourinho couldn't and Ole is trying, whether he will succeed or not will take time, not two transfer windows. I can't see Poch, Allegri or whoever, doing any better. A DoF is a must.

25 Nov 2019 11:35:43
Why does he not have the ability to succeed shappy? he hasn't been working with a lot of money and has worked under a guy whose penny pinching cost tottenham incoming players, at southampton and tottenham he developed average players to play better than they actually are, which is desperately what this side needs until we get rid of woodward atleast.

This he gives young players a chance is bs, Rashford and mctominay were already starters before ole came in and given our depth he has no option but to play them, he's had to play williams, i want to see what he does once shaw's fit, then we will see how much of the youth schtick is real and how much is for show.

Also what is a right sort of a player, we have spent 130 mn on defense and have a rejuvenated ddg and yet our defense looks so better than what it was last season.

Name me 1 player who has looked better under him than they did under mourinho, players have regressed under him. Oncecan make as many grand far sighted plans as one wants, but if he can't do the basic bread and butter stuff his longterms vision means nothing.

25 Nov 2019 11:45:24
LLV it is the job of the manager to improve players.

The same lingard who looks like a conman trying to trick us into beleiving he is a footballer, looked atleast like a decent squad player under both mourinho and lvg. Lindelof looked a decent player last season.

Its amazing how Ole has been incharge nearly a year now and most players have regressed under him, but apparently no other manager can do better.

how much better than what we have are henderson and sissoko when they started under klopp and pochettino, a manager is supposed to improve players, there is a reason why scouts and dof's don't run the team, the manager and his coaches do.

25 Nov 2019 11:47:52
Rashford and Martial are better under OSG than under Mourinho, there's two. The others all play more or less the same.

25 Nov 2019 11:58:25
LLV how have they been better? They have gotten more playing time but i don't see much improvements from the time mourinho was incharge. If anything rashford's regressed a bit.

25 Nov 2019 11:58:36
CSM, Lingard has never looked like a decent squad player, he had a small period of OK form, didn't do much before, hasn't done anything since.

To the two players mentioned above, I'd also add Fred, who despite being poor, is still better than he was under Mourinho, and one could argue McTominay, who has progressed loads since OGS took over, even if Mourinho does deserve credit for spotting his potential, it's OGS who has managed to help McTominay reveal that potential.

Lindelöf looked more solid last year when he played alongside Smalling, I think Maguire is better than Smalling, but highlights Lindelöf's weaknesses more. It's not Maguire or OGS's fault Lindelöf isn't good in the air and often gets caught out of position. I just think Smalling and Lindelöf oddly complimented each other. Our better defensive performances last season were when those two were playing. It was shambles when either one, usually Smalling, was missing.

25 Nov 2019 12:07:34
But one praises the fact it was his substitutions changed the game and his awareness to change formation got us to 3 2.


The defenders were awfull and a lack of common sense and closing down lost us the 3 points.


Positionally for the first jones played the guy on side. Then doesn't kick it out to be bullied


2 goals after that was a lack of closing down for both goals


It wasnt the managers fault the players bar a few are simply not good enough.

25 Nov 2019 12:09:12
CSM, Rashford already has 10 goals this season, his previous best was 13 last season, many of which came under OGS. Sure Rashford struggled when Martial was injured and he was asked to play through the centre, but since he's been able to move wide again, he's been much more competent. As for Martial, it's obvious how much better he's been under OSG, the team has improved tenfold going forward since he came back from injury. Yesterday, he didn't have the best game, but he was making moves and was keeping the defence pegged back (in that he was sticking to his position when not in possession, instead of coming deep), with better midfielders, that front three would be highly effective.

25 Nov 2019 12:44:28
CSM, Pochettino has proven himself a very good manager. Yet he still has areas of weakness. It is these areas of weakness which is why I think he will struggle if he became United manager.

The first real area he has struggled in is in recruitment. At Southampton the manager had little input into the recruitment process. Southampton at the time had a clear image of the club they were and targeted players who who be improved, either because they were young with potential or were slightly older but had been overlooked. Theses player Pochettino was good at improving.

At Spurs he had more of a say over the kind of players the club would sign. Now although he didn't have a huge budget (net spend needed to be controlled due to the new stadium) he was able to have a far larger say on the types of players signed and the attributes of those players. He valued physicality over technical quality. It meant his players had more energy and physical output, but they lacked the overall quality to control those tough games. This in part impacted Spurs in the big games which goes someway to explain why when he has played in a couple of finals and had a great chance when Leicester won the league that Spurs didn't win anything under him.

At our club we have struggled with recruitment, 900m spent in 6 years and we are lucky if we can name 5 players worth keeping from those brought in. Our club is not set up well for a manger who has an iffy recruitment history.

The second issue, is does Pochettino crack under pressure? He was fantastic at Southampton when there was little pressure or expectation on him or the team.

At Spurs he was great up until there was an expectation to win titles and cups. He came in improved many of the young players, lifted them up a level. Yet in the last 18 months many have regressed. Alli played better for Jose on the weekend than he has for Pochettino in the last year. Dier has been as his name would suggest. Both looked like 100m players under Pochettino at the start.

There is a difference between giving young players the opportunities to develop and actually working with them on the training ground to develop their game. Without being on the training ground its hard to see which it is. But from afar it looks like the players have taken their chances but then seemed to stop developing and regressed. Was that because they weren't being given the training to develop all aspects of their game or because they didn't put the effort in to make the most of the training they were given?

From an outside perspective you can maybe say that Liverpool were always likely to beat Spurs int he UCL final. They had the better team, and they had the pedigree in the competition. But the loses to Chelsea in the league cup final and blowing the league to Leicester suggest a mental fragility that would be fully under the microscope at a massive club like ours where what the manager eats for breakfast can be headline news. Rightly or wrongly can you ever remember a story about where a manager is living like those of Jose while at United? That is the kind of scrutiny you live under as manager of Manchester United. Pochettino will be regarded as a failure if he didn't win a title at United in under three seasons.

There has been nothing in Pochettino's career that suggests he can handle that pressure.

The two biggest issues with managing United at the moment is handling the pressure, and getting the recruitment right. This has been Pochettino's two biggest weaknesses during his time in England. That is why I question whether he is a good fit for us at the moment.

25 Nov 2019 13:02:19
The very obvious problem yesterday was the midfield.
How many passes did the midfielders give to the forwards in the first half?

Ole also has to take a part of the blame because 3 CB at the back did not work at all.

More than everything, why did the decision makers not get any midfielders? Why was Herrera not replaced?
Why was Jones given a new contract.

Any manager will struggle with this squad.

25 Nov 2019 13:10:19
CSM that simply ain't true. Ole has improved more players than moyes lvg and mou combined.
DdG was a shadow of himself under mou
Mctom Rash Martial Fred and Pereira all have played better under ole than they did for mou.

25 Nov 2019 15:00:54
Win our games and get a point at city between now and first week of January and we’ll be sitting pretty I reckon
It’s certainly possible with fixtures we have
Be positive guys:

25 Nov 2019 15:26:39
Cookyman it possible but highly improbable and doubtful.
Ole is not a very good football manager. He has proven that. His epl record proves that. His time in the championship proves that.
He did well at molde but its hardly the benchmark.
He is negative being belief and in not sure what laugh a minute phelan carrick and mckenna offer at all.

25 Nov 2019 19:11:33
What you just said is totally irrelevant ken :) Happy monday.





 

 

 
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