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09 May 2018 05:41:33
Rumours of jose willing to accept willian plus money for martial.

In the short term it doesn't seem a bad move as willian can fill the gaping hole on the right hand side and he's played well this season.

But in the long term it is going to bite us on the backside as i believe martial will go on and become a world class player like de bruyne and salah and we will look foolish for selling him.

Agree5 Disagree0

09 May 2018 07:28:25
How is he a good signing in even short term. He will be 30 when we sign him, his crossing is subpar, he isn't any better dribbler than martial, only outstanding attribute of his is he is very hardworking and when your best attribute is you are a hard worker that isn't saying much about you is it.

09 May 2018 08:01:36
Deeply unfair CSM. Hard working is not a trait levelled at many of our players this year, and from what I’ve seen William has been superb this year. Not that I’m saying I’d sign him. Also seen links to Pulisic involving Martial.

Irrespective of his qualities I fail to see what signs Martial has given to suggest we’re selling the Messiah. Lazy. Very lazy. Moody. No work rate at all. Poor decision making. Yes, above average finishing. But many are, so what else exactly? What are these magic qualities I overlook, because I’m mystified.

09 May 2018 08:15:26
Exactly Timbo. Potential is not a quality, it’s a salesman’s promise.

09 May 2018 08:42:47
Timbo martial ain't Messiah but if we were selling him I would want someone better than current martial, willian is not much better than martial for me. If we were to sign dybala even pulisic I would be happy to sell martial but signing willian is a step back much like the Croatian Ashley Young that mourinho was chasing last season.

09 May 2018 08:56:26
No, you compared Martial to situations involving KDB and Salah. Right now that’s a laughable comparison, and only
one based on the comfort of hindsight. People need to let go of these names as they use them simply to bash Jose.

Give the guy a break. How is he supposed to succeed under this reentless and inaccurate telling of history? Nobody said that Salah would be the player he is when he left Chelsea - not that Jose sold him - a fact lost on many that choose to overlook it.

09 May 2018 09:36:36
Agreed Timbo. Whilst I wouldn’t want to see martial go, he has not done enough to convince the manager to stay. I hope he has a great performance tonight because on form he has the potential to be special. But he is at a crucial point in his career where if he applies himself he can go the way of Ronaldo of end up like Nani. And I’m not saying he’s going to be as good at Ronaldo before anybody says anything!

Willian is a very good footballer I am a massive fan. I agree age is a problem and very short term. But for people to say jose’s Signings are old short term buys is a bit of a generalisation. Apart from matic and Sanchez miki, bailly (23/ 24), lindelof (23), pogba (24) are all young players. So we need to stop beating Jose with the stick that he only buys old short term players. There is a case to say he stifles younger players’ development but I would argue that he has improved Lingard massively. Nobody included myself ever though he would be playing at the level he has been. But people seem to gloss over this and only look for faults. He should rightly be criticised for the handling of shaw at times. But should also be praised for the handling of Lingard and perhaps Lukaku who has come on leaps and bounds.

Going back to martial, sometimes no matter how good the player can be, it just doesn’t work with the manager. There is no point keeping a player who doesn’t want to be here or cannot excel under the manager. I would much rather cash in and invest in a player who will benefit from playing under Jose. Lingard has shown that if you apply yourself and work hard then you can reap the rewards. Martial hasn’t seized these chances. I was bothered before about him leaving but now I’m not so bothered. No player is bigger than the club and we’ve lost bigger players in stam, Beckham, Ronaldo and still survived. I’m sure we will be fine if martial goes.

09 May 2018 10:09:49
Park you make a great point there. Sometimes a player can be a great player for one team, or coach playing in a style and system with team mates and in surroundings that suit them.
That same player can look average or below in another team with another coach playing in a different system.
There are only very few players that can be brilliant all the time.
Martial looks to have a lot of the right attributes to make a top player but at nearly 23 he lacks experience and is still not a regular starter. Why is that? Be sure he does not suit this manager. Jose has always had flair players like martial in his team's. But they all worked hard and adapted to the work ethic required. Deco duff robben hazard di Maria Ronaldo so if martial delivered like they all did then there would be no problem.
I think martial will go on to achieved plenty but i don't think it will be at United. I don't think it will be under jose. Their personalities are polar opposites. Martial to not exude the image of a winner and he does not exude the image of a player that will do anything to win or a player that will bust my ass every week no matter what.
It looks like he is frustrated it looks like his head has been turned.
For me there are 2 or 3 players in our squad in indifferent on. Herrera martial and mata. Whereby if they stay I think they all make good contributions when they play and justify being here. But i wouldn't be upset or annoyed if they leave. We can sign players that could natch or improve upon their contribution very easily
Shaw darmian blind fellaini on the other hand contribute little or nothing they don't provide adequate cover and put no pressure on those ahead of them. These 4 should be sold this summer and ill be surprised and disappointed if they are not.

09 May 2018 10:32:04
We can debate hard work or laziness all day long, what counts in football is results. There are no titles for the hardest working team, only those that win their games win titles. How do you win games? Goals.

Willian at 29 has just had his best ever season as a player. In around 2200 minutes he has racked up 12 goals and 8 assists.

Martial has apparently had a poor season. In 1900 minutes or around 300 minutes less than Willian he has racked up 12 goals and 7 assists.

So, Martial is younger and will likely improve whereas Willian has leaked and will likely get regress. And yet they have almost identical out put.

So for an extra 300 minutes of football Willian has provided one more assist while also doing a bit more running.

The fact that the proposed deal is Willian plus money for Martial is a clear indication that Martial is considered the better option.

I like Willian, I think he's a great player. But he isn't worth losing Martial for.

09 May 2018 11:38:42
Agree with all that ken. Shapps I agree there are no titles for the hardest working teams but if you look at the distance covered as a team we are last. City Liverpool and spurs all work much harder than us especially when they lose the ball. Now this is not purely down to the players and a huge contributing factor is the tactics deployed by the manager. He doesn’t promote pressing from the front which is ludicrous considering we have the players to do so. He likes to play a low block which invites far too much pressure on the defence, with our midfield non existent far too many times this season.

However, martial has been a culprit of lacking desire and work rate. It is clear that he is sulking and unhappy. It’s just not working out with the manager. They don’t see football in the same way. This happens sometimes. Sometimes a great manager and a great player come together and it produces a negative result. Having said that, I agree that Willian+40m for martial would represent a bad deal for us. When martial has played his output has been very good. Problem is it seems he is unwilling to put his head down and fight for his place. That is where the problem lies I believe. Let’s say he moves to Chelsea, there is no guarantee he starts on the left if hazard is still there. There is no guarantee he starts centrally because of Giroud and morata. He has shown he doesn’t like playing on the right. Is he going to sulk again and demand a move? You have to earn your place, it’s not going to be handed to you. My point is he seems to have a weak mentality when the going gets tough. We don’t need those sorts at this club if we want to get back to the top. It’s the manager’s job to inspire and instil a strong mentality in his players. But if martial is not responding there is no point being here for both the player and the manager.

09 May 2018 12:23:57
Timbo you are confusing me with op, i did nothing of what you are calling me out on. I did not even mention kdb or salah.

09 May 2018 12:41:09
Hard working teams/ players were a core ethic for Sir Alex. Even some United legends in recent documentaries acknowledge that it was hard work, grit and an unbeatable mindset that defeated some of the Arsenal teams of the past. What did Scholes say? Something along the lines of the ball barely being mentioned in Arsenal pre-match team talks. We didn't care about pretty football then.

I cannot think of many United greats, Ronaldo aside, who were not 'workers'. Its a quality evident from a young age. Scholes, Keane, Nevilles, Rooney, Tevez, Giggs, Beckham, Robson, Stam, Vidic, Rio etc. Workers. Now add martial to that list? Does he fit in any sense? Sadly not. I have far more respect for Lingard and would be significantly more disappointed if he left. However the perception is Martial is the one that should not get away.

09 May 2018 13:34:27
Timbo- Ronaldo should be in your list of workers. He has always worked very hard to be the best that he can be. Don't believe the snide comments of journalists.

09 May 2018 13:52:16
Timbo, hard work is an important component of most successful teams. However, even the most hard working teams had player who didn't work as hard but was just as effective. Yes, under Sir Alex we had some incredibly hard workers, Djemba-Djemba ran his ass off every game, as did Kleberson and Bebe ect ect. But you still need the players to have the quality as well.

Park, If Martial goes to Chelsea he will likely play as their main striker as that is what they are missing. He will play most weeks if fit and will have players such as Hazard feeding him chances. There is a good chance he will push Kane and Lukaku for top scorer next season and all those who seem happy to sell him will be asking why we let a great talent leave to a main rival.

09 May 2018 14:02:27
Perhaps he would play centrally shappy and May score a lot of goals but there is no guarantee. For the record I want to keep him I think he is immensely talented. But if he wants to go then so be it. I don’t believe the rumours he is off to Chelsea as I think the club are not stupid enough to sell to a direct rival. I’d expect him to go Juve if he indeed leaves. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

09 May 2018 14:46:41
Pretty sure some people have decided they don't like him purely because he could leave.

09 May 2018 15:39:51
I'm not sure that's the case nath. If he signs a new contract then it signals all the right intentions from both the player and the manager. But if he doesn't sign a new deal then the club have no choice but to sell him.
I'd love to see him excel here i'd also be pleased if he leaves to see him do well in Spain italy or elsewhere. Obviously selling to an epl rival would be a last resort. To a certain extent the power is in the players hands. Does he think he can fit in under jose at United?, will he get the chance to play? does he want to adapt his game to what jose wants? Does he want to do what it takes to play for Manchester United? If the answer to all those is yes then I think everyone would want him to stay.

09 May 2018 16:20:10
The only way I would reluctantly accept selling Martial is if he went to PSG in exchange for Verratti.

A world class player in a position we need coming in with their best years ahead of them.

09 May 2018 17:22:23
What if he doesn't want to sign a new contract shappy would you rather he walks for free next summer?

09 May 2018 18:37:06
Hasn't the club got an extra year option on him?

09 May 2018 18:44:33
I would ask him why he doesn't want to sign a new contract. Personally I sympathise with him to a large degree, Mourinho drops him and shunts him around the pitch regardless of form. He was in the form of his life until Sanchez was signed. He was then dropped for the new guy ad hasn't recovered his form since.

I could understand him being dropped when he plays poorly, but that isn't always the case atm. Luke Shaw is suffering the same fate at LB. He gets a chance plays reasonably well and is then dropped for no real reason.

The real issue with Shaw and Martial is that for some reason Mourinho just doesn't like them. That will demoralise players and make them want to leave.

Martial is a top level talent, and when given the chance has done as well as anyone else at our club and better than most. And yet he is still dropped at a moments notice.

I would be asking serious questions of the manager if a young talented player doesn't want to sign a new contract.

09 May 2018 19:36:39
Apologies CSM. My bad.







 

 

 
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