10 Jun 2015 09:21:54
Good Morning - Just wanted to talk about Daley Blind. I see a lot of people wouldn't consider him in the starting line up if we were to sign a couple of CM's but for me, I think Blind is another very underrated player who is in the same mould as Carrick. Carrick never got the plaudits he deserved up until 2 seasons ago but now everyone appreciates what a good player he is and I think Blind is the same and my reason for this is that he goes around his job very quietly without getting noticed because he's not scoring goals or smashing people in tackles but these steady eddies are worth their weight in gold as Carrick has proven. Now for his first season which was disrupted by a knee injury, I think he has done well, he came up with 2 important goals and having a look at his stats he made 88% of his passes and 77% of these were forward and he also created 17 chances. What potentially goes against Blind is a physical presence but he is a smart player and made 81 interceptions in comparison to Matic who made 73 and played 11 more games. I think people should not dismiss Blind as an important player for us, I always liked Carrick but he carried the title of Keane's replacement for so long but is a completely different player and now everyone see's his worth and I think if we look at Blind for the player he is and not compare him to the Vidal's, Verratti's, Matic's, everyone will appreciate the job Blind does.
10 Jun 2015 10:04:06
With respect I disagree Ports.
Carrick was underrated because he deserved to be. He has only seemingly come into his own of late because our midfield has deteriorated to the state it is in. For all the praise he gets for "keeping things ticking", that is my major concern, we do pointless ticking with no alarm bell. Don't get me wrong Carrick has been our best midfielder for a while, but how many actual chances does he create? I remember one goal he set-up for Fellaini and all of a sudden he is this guy that plays all these forward defence splitting passes according to the media. He is just as side to side as the rest of them and its fashionable to praise this type of player now.
He drops too deep to pick the ball up off the defence leaving gaping holes from midfield to attack, (its even worse when Rooney is in there). Granted we have no ball playing defenders so it may be necessary, but he should be 20 yards more advanced most of the time, how much time would he have then? This system and style flatters the anchor man role, I would look good in there at the pace we play at and how deep we drop.
Blind - he is intelligent no doubt and he does get interceptions like Carrick. But its only because we have so many men camped behind the ball and hardly any committed to attacking teams. Blind is mid-table PL standard wise imo, too slow, does nothing with the ball and ticks less loudly than Carrick. He wouldn't get anywhere near our rivals starting 11, but if fit I think LVG will play him week in week out. He is John O'Shea but Dutch (and lacks physicality).
I appreciate it takes all sorts to make a team, but it's all the rage at the minute to praise the "quiet" player, the one that you don't see but does a job. Look at Marchisio the other night. Yes you need a lot of Indians in the team but don't confuse these Indians with Chief's.
Just my view mate and I'm sure my down playing of Carrick will get disagrees, but Blind is a far inferior player to him and I don't even rate Carrick that highly, he is just benefiting from the system and the dross around him making him look little better than he really is.
10 Jun 2015 09:45:00
I totally agree, maybe he doesn't have that sprinkling of stardust that makes people get all emotional. But he does a hugely underrated job very efficiently. He is someone who can add balance to the midfield and offer us something the likes of Mata or Di Maria can't.
I think after Herrera Blind has been our second most successful signing of last summer. I would then say its very close between Di Maria, Shaw and RoJo. With Falcao obviously flopping badly.
I think many fans are too easily distracted by the guys who score the goals, or have a neat trick in their locker and over look the clever intelligent players who bring it altogether. The guys who do their job quietly and effectively and give our other players the platform to build from. These guys get labelled "water-carriers" as an insult, but without them the whole team would die of dehydration.
10 Jun 2015 10:11:54
Shame these water carriers can't quench the thirst of our strikers who had worse service than Charlie Austin!
10 Jun 2015 10:31:48
Beast I'll bite in regards to your downplaying of Carrick's ability. He is a fantastic reader of the game and makes the correct decision 99/100. He isn't scared to try a difficult pass when most would rather just keep possession. LVG's system does emphasise possession but Carrick is more than that. Smalling looks more assured with him in front, as does Jones.
For me Carrick walks into the Arsenal and City teams and he'd be in a Chelsea team ahead of Oscar with Fabeegas more advanced.
Then I'd say Daley Blind is a good squad player for us but I don't think he's near Carrick's level. He'll be a good 2nd option at LB and 3rd or 4th choice in CM for us.
10 Jun 2015 10:40:11
blind is average .
poor at winning the ball back and slows the tempo down .
makes himself available quite well but imo no better than cleverly for example .
blind is just very average milner could do the same job far better imo
10 Jun 2015 10:51:12
Rjmanutd - Carrick is a fantastic reader of the game no doubt about it. He also does retain possession well. He is a 7/10 player for me and is reliably that. However he plays the easy ball far too often for my liking. That said we are better with him than without him, but I do think that is more to do with how weak we are rather than how strong Carrick is.
I agree Blind should be a squad player at best, but LVG loves him. If fit I think he will play, and that is my major issue/worry.
10 Jun 2015 11:04:23
I think he will play a big part next year. however I do wonder whether this will be as 1st choice left back at the start of the season.
My reasoning being how well he played with Young this year.and if Deepay comes in on the left I think good defensive left back behind him would benefit his very attack minded game.
Wherever i think we will see an improved player next year
10 Jun 2015 12:01:59
Beast, do you not believe though he could and would play further 15/20 yards forward with a more solid defence? And as a team that would allow us to press higher. I don't believe he was brought in to create chances, defence splitting passes, we had ADM, Mata, Rooney, RVP, Falcao, Young, Herrera who were expected to do that. I also slightly disagree with the statement that it is fashionable to praise these players, I think most people question what they do. But if I was to offer Blind or Lahm, majority would straight away jump for Lahm and I expect most would have Lahm in the starting 11. What are those reasons though? Because Bayern win most games very comfortably but is this not due to Lewandowski, Robben, Ribery, Goetze being more clinical then United this season? I think Blind has been criticised due to others underperforming and people haven't judged him on his individual performances. I hope he is a regular next season and I think if we are successful, peoples views on him will be different.
10 Jun 2015 12:18:26
Ports, I think Carrick looks better precisely because he is playing so deep. If we had a better defence we wouldn't need Carrick as much and I can't wait until we get rid of this proxy 3rd CB. I don't think he would be very effective further up, he wasn't in his youth when he had more energy/pace.
I do appreciate he isn't meant to be playing through balls etc a lot, when I wrote that I did think it could be easily interpreted in that way. What I mean is that he is effective at recycling the ball, but he is too safe. There were countless times our strikers made a good run last season but the ball was just played 10 yards and the run ignored. Probably LVG's instructions but Carrick is a safety first player and we struggled a lot this season because too many players were instructed or wanted to be too careful with the ball.
In terms of the "fashionable" thing to say comment. Pundits and commentators want to try and be unique and say something that others haven't thought of, almost every time I watch a game nowadays praise is lavished on the grunt work or the ticker rather than the people that change games and make things happen.
I'm fed up of hearing people go on about under rated players like Milner or Carrick saying they are forgotten about, when in fact they are talked about more than "rated" players because of how much they are under-rated - it's all backward.
10 Jun 2015 12:42:55
You're in good form today, Beast. First McNair, now Blind :)
10 Jun 2015 13:05:03
I'm not going to dismiss what you're saying Beast and this for me is what makes the site great when people can have discussions about players. We will all never agree as football is about opinions and we all have our views. For me though, to continue this discussion, after the season of Moyes where we could not keep possession for love nor money and playing a rather set way, having Blind keeping possession and the whole team in general looking more confident on the ball and wanting the ball was a welcome relief from what we endured the season before. Adding exciting players such as Depay and a couple of others for next season to build on the foundation laid this season and I think we will be seeing something of the old United.
10 Jun 2015 13:15:14
I agree with Beast on this one. Carrick usually stops and looks after receiving a pass, which slows down the tempo. He does not have that ability to escape his marker, and he plays fairly conservatively as a result. Players like Pirlo, Modric, Verratti can evade their marker, drive forward, draw another defender, which opens up the defense for a dangerous pass. Carrick does not do that, for all of his other good qualities.
Blind reads the game well, can intercept when we compress the field, but is far too slow when the game opens up. Given his attributes, you would think he would do better at defensive mid, but he generally looked much better at left back.
10 Jun 2015 13:22:28
Carrick came to us the season after Van Nistelrooy left. Everybody thought we would score fewer goals but we scored more. Witness also our decline in performances this year when he was injured. He's one of those types of players who are essential but go largely unnoticed. In my view he should have been an England regular rather than playing both the apparently incompatible Lampard and Gerrard together. Every team needs a Carrick. The question is, are there better Carricks out there? Probably yes, largely because against top opposition he lacks speed. It was true going back to the finals against Barcelona, and its even truer now.
I would say he was one of SAF's best signings. But, we have to face it, while he probably still has a contribution, his best days are behind him.
10 Jun 2015 15:09:18
Not sure about starting 11 quality but I agree he is underrated by some and will be a very useful, versatile squad member. You always need a few of his type in the squad, players who understand their role(s) and are willing to cover positions and sit on the bench from time to time.
10 Jun 2015 15:27:58
Beast, in your first post I think you have missed the point of what a deep lying playmaker is supposed to add to a team, certainly not goals and not many assists really. Carrick is a very good, modern type DLP imo, in an era when there aren't that many flying around. I think he blossomed once Saf found that role for him and I think we've been lucky to have him.
{Ed004's Note - there aren't many replacements for him either. From those that we are linked to in the media; Schweinsteiger is a identical in style of play IMO, Schneiderlin offers more defensively but not as good on the ball (also HG and would offer height at set pieces) and Nainggolan who is better on the ball than both but doesn't offer as much defensively in terms of positioning (more attack minded IMO doesn't sit in and cover the defense). I think Gundogan has been looked at for the Fellaini role}