Manchester United banter 92718


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02 Nov 2023 10:03:17
Hi to all suffering MU fans like myself.
Decided to look realistically at results over last season and one obvious startling aspect is we can't score goals .
Last season I am sure we would have been in the same position as we are now had it not been for Rashford covering the cracks, unfortunately sadly missing this year and expectations on a new 20 year old CF is too great .
The question from last season and this, is it poor tactics for us not to dominate games creating many scoring chances?
Do not remember any thrashing's of any team last season our defense was spot on that created wins by the odd goal with at times a lot of luck.
We fall back to questions over players capability that reverts back to poor transfer decisions .
Tactics versus players capability and acceptance of managers requirements.
The final big question is obviously team spirit and togetherness from owners all the way down to players that is drastically missing .

One positive note manager has brought some discipline into squad that obviously shone the light on some players throwing teddy bears out of prams.
How ever has this caused many of the squad to be against these rules only showing it on the pitch by playing for themselves and not to managers tactics?

Basically I am not surprised where we are cracks were covered over last season ?
Suggest a new manger like the past would have short improvement than we would be back to square one .
Best example is Martial survived all managers so far and fails to perform but is still here!

But we can't afford another manager and with the possible part takeover it's not going to happen.
We have to accept ETH is here for this season but what a big hole to dig out of !

Finally nothing will change until management above manger and coaches is completely restructured with experienced knowledgeable football proven experts that have a footballing strategy for the whole club .

Agree2 Disagree0

02 Nov 2023 10:33:04
Goal difference 21/ 22 season, exactly zero. good 22/ 23 season, just 15. good so far 23/ 24 season, -5

We don't create chances, we don't score goals.

02 Nov 2023 11:09:58
I remember watching an interview with Sam Allardyce many moons ago when he was doing well with Bolton. He went into detail out playing the percentages and drilled into the players POMO (point of maximum opportunity) . Now the stats may have changed in 25 odd years but the majority of goals are scored from crosses or balls out wide into the box. He hated players shooting from long distances as the data shows you're more than likely going to miss. I think he fined his players like 50 quid if they shot from outside the box and missed.

Pep talked about building a successful team. He said in its simplest terms "just sign players who don't give the ball away". Haalands second goal on the weekend where he hangs at the back post for a free header after the ball is worked out wide, City have been scoring this type of goal since Pep arrived. If it wasn't Sterling popping up for a tap in it was Mahrez or Gundogan etc.

Long story short is we don't do things that point to any sort of plan. The majority of the team are not comfortable with that ball in tight spaces. How many times do you see Dalot, Lindelof, Maguire etc just launch the ball into the channels to no one?

Our midfielders are incredibly wasteful too. I can't remember the last time we dominated the midfield by controlling possession. Our maverick in Bruno is wasteful because he tries the killer ball so often, I can live with that at times, but not every time you have the ball. In the City game the ball was rolled to his feet about 20 yards from goal and tries some flick that went straight to a defender.

Our wide players bar Garnacho don't actually know how to be wingers. Rashfords lack of work rate and his ability to just run down blind alleys is infuriating. Anthony's inability to beat a man and consistently play the ball back centrally means it's ridiculously hard to break down a low block. So you're left with a lonely Hojlund making run after run not knowing when a ball might come in.

We are a team that plays against themselves first and foremost. Our full backs get into good positions only to play the ball back in field and narrow the play. Our inverted wingers only have eyes for goal but statistically only terrorise the poor fans behind the goal.

We defend like we're an ultra attacking team, we attack like we're ultra defensive. A bunch of players who consistently make the wrong decisions on the pitch game after game, manager after manager and like the club off the pitch, these things catch up on you eventually.

Long story short, get big Sam in for some training in the art of POMO.

02 Nov 2023 11:29:52

I spent all summer banging on about this problem based on last season, about how important scoring goals was and what we needed to do. As usual told I talked nonsense.

I have posted for many weeks about how we don’t cross a ball and it appears a tactical decision. Spoken about how we don’t manipulate full backs, create space. I said how one striker wasn’t enough. I said we have a 6ft 3 forward and don’t cross to him.

It’s is biting us on the backside, our manager must have thought only one inexperienced forward was what was needed, so tactically this has to fall on him. How many times a game do we get in a crossing position and recycle.

It’s a mess of ETH own creation and I don’t think the players believe in it either.

02 Nov 2023 11:47:56
Creative players need to be given the opportunity to try and fail, but nothing's coming off for ours atm. Get Neto in while we're at it, one of the top performing players in the league right now in terms of scoring and creating.
If they do remove ten Hag, we'd probably end up in a caretaker manager scenario again. Would love to see the likes of Keane or Neville come in and see if they can do any better.

02 Nov 2023 11:57:20

LOL Keane will Murder so many players in this squad. They would not do well with him. Neville's track record as a manger is very poor. Might as well give it to someone like Scholes but not sure he even has coaching badges.

02 Nov 2023 12:04:08

Whys is it a mess of his own creation and please don't start with the Kane debate. Please explain what we should have done.

02 Nov 2023 12:06:27
We all know goalscoring has been an issue for a while, mainly it seems we are not clinical enough in front of goal.

The difference this season is the normally decent defence has collapsed, from the DM back to the CB.

02 Nov 2023 12:11:39
Good post Mumbles!

Red Man - EtH is struggling but these players are a disgrace.

Do you honestly believe that if EtH played Rashford on the RW and asked him to cross the ball for Hojlund he’d actually do it?!

He might for a couple of games but then he’d start moaning that he wants to play on the left so he can cut in side to shoot and score more goals! He’d complain that he doesn’t like playing on the right and crossing the ball is hindering his natural game and goal scoring stats.

I agree it’s perverse to sign a CF and then not provide them with any service but these players are a joke. They are only interested in themselves, protecting their own interest and brands!

Look at Maguire for example, he came out on International duty and actually quoted his own win percentage! “My record under EtH speaks for itself. I haven’t started as many games as I’d like but my win percentage when I’ve played is ridiculously high” This win percentage nonsense is obviously carefully manipulated to suit his own agenda and in no way represented the entire truth. He conveniently omitted all the context. Well he’s started against two decent teams and we’ve shipped 6 games without reply on home turf. This is the mentality of these players, this is a former captain of the Club. This is a player that refused to leave in the summer because he wanted a pay off. Some may argue that he was entitled to that money but here’s a player that was happy to sit on the bench at Man Utd rather than play football. We want players that love the Club, that are self aware with elite mentality. Is any surprised we got hammered against City with Maguire and Evans at CB. Is anyone surprised we got hammed against Newcastle with Maguire and Lindelof at CB. We’ve been getting hammered with Maguire and Lindelof for years!

I say no manager can get a tune out of these players. Short term bounce, maybe, but we’ll eventually find their level again. I’d sell every single player before I’d sack EtH. This is just another example of the players again turning on yet another manager!

02 Nov 2023 12:25:56
Redman who told you that you were talking nonsense when you said goal scoring was an issue?
I can't think of one person who didn't think that was the case.
I can't think of anybody who thought we scored enough goals and didn't need a cf.
Don't know of anybody that wanted to keep martial as back up. You do know we tried to get rid of him in order to bring in another. Buts its not quite as simple as that.
The planning all summer was flawed not sure who takes the responsibility for that.

02 Nov 2023 12:26:54
We have played Rashy on the right a few times in recent games to accommodate Garnacho. He had a few one on ones too, but flunked them. Just not his natural position.

02 Nov 2023 12:38:47
It's a good point DLIB about a new manager getting a different tune out of these players, I agree and I don't think they would long term.

Just taking City as another example as they're winning everything. Pep has often been criticised for his some what mechanical build up play, when going back to his Barcelona days. The constant merry-go-round of passing until they find the right moment to pounce can be quite boring as it's so efficient.

Players are human and will resort to muscle memory. Managers like Pep do drill after drill after drill so as a player you don't have to think what to do next, it's instinctual.

Our players have those instincts too but unfortunately for us, they're very bad habits to get into to. Like you said, Rashford just wants to cut inside, Anthony will get as far down the wing as possible, cut back in and play the ball centrally. Bruno will try a Hail Mary Hollywood pass because that's what they're used to.

When these players are pressed or in trouble on the pitch they resort to these instincts, normally its counterintuitive to actually scoring goals.

02 Nov 2023 13:37:57
Repetition Repetition Repetition.
But you have to be open to learning and working hard. You need to want to learn. You need to be open to being thought and be want to move out of your comfort zone.
Some is eth at fault more is the players at fault imo.
These players at not good at so many things. They are only interested in themselves.
No manager will turn this kit into a team.
Structure 1st
Firewall 2nd
Manager will be addressed in time but the other 2 need to be addressed 1st imo or else you are putting the horse before the cart.

02 Nov 2023 14:16:55
Goalscoring has become more of a problem as the standard of footballers in the EPL has increased.

The problem is that our players lack the technical skills, and tactical intelligence to play through teams.

They cannot receive the ball in tight spaces without giving it away. They cannot move the ball quickly because they don't have the skills to play one touch football or the intelligence to know where to play the ball before receiving it.

It means we are slow and latheragic in build up play. That gives time for the opposition to get back in shape or no reason to step out of shape in the first place.

Patterns of play etc are pointless without the ability to move the ball quickly and efficiently. The plan might be to move the ball from player A to player B to create space for Player C to move into to receive the ball either between the lines or behind the opposition.

But if you move the ball too slowly then the space will never open up. Which means by the time player B has the ball and is ready to make the pass to player C the space isn't there and instead they have to play another backwards or sideways pass.

Does that sound familiar, slow inane sideways and backwards passing?

Isn't that the issue LvG had, and Jose, and Ole, and Ralf and the same issue with EtH?

It's not that these managers don't know how to coach these patterns of play, or a specific style of play. It's that these players cannot play that way to a high enough standard because they simply aren't good enough.

Which is why every manager has ended up relying on individuals doing something to open up teams and create chances. Which puts them at the mercy of those players form.

The standard of players and particularly the coaching in the EPL is at an all time high. That means teams are better technically and tactically. They defend better as a team and are have higher quality individuals in their teams. That makes it much harder to open them up with a bit of individual skill. Especially if they know that is the only way you can create chances against them. We are easy to defend against because we are tactically limited and predictable.

That won't change until we have better players right throughout the team, not just in forward areas. Højlund is a good player added to the forward area, but it could have been Kane or anyone else. If you can't get the ball to those players at the right time in the right spaces then their impact is severely limited. That means more technically and tactically gifted midfielders and defenders.

Quite simply any player in your side who can't control the ball in tight spaces, be press resistant, play with their head up, one touch passing etc then they bring the ability of the whole side down.

A team is like a heard, only as quick as it's slowest member, and the predictors will target the weakest. That's where your patterns of play breakdown, that's where you lose the ball, that's where the defensive issues you have to deal with stem from.

That's why it's about more than just having 11 great players. Why you need a whole squad because every time you play a weaker player you bring down the quality of the whole team and not just one position.

Which is why when we are having to play 4th or 5th choice options in some positions why we look so absolutely god awful. The fact that we have 4 or 5 players starting who aren't first choice just absolutely decimates the quality of the team as a whole.

02 Nov 2023 17:00:45
I don't like getting blown away at home off city, it shouldn't be quite that easy to beat us, but to be fair I've seen them do it to way better teams than us .
However we were blown away at home again last night, not off city, it was newcastle, it was newcastle though without numerous players, too many to list .
They rocked up and thought, the 5th and 6th choice Centre backs will be just fine for this game as will a load of others who rarely play .
They looked together, well coached hard to beat and with a plan of attack.
Its easy to say a manager duznt have the right tools to work with, theirs had dummet and kraft at centre back but we rarely lay a glove on them and made them look like Beckenbauer and Bobby Moore.
There may be lots of factors why we are as bad as we are at the moment but they shouldn't be an excuse as to why on the actual pitch it looks like unorganised nothingness.

02 Nov 2023 17:31:47
I lost you at 'suffering'.

Take a look around the world, and still tell me you are 'suffering' because a group of overpaid hacks are not providing you with the entertainment you have become accustomed to.

Humanity is knackered if you truly are suffering from this rubbishshow that is Manchester United.

Have some perspective people.



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