Manchester United banter 80939


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13 Nov 2018 08:57:18
Smalling and Lindelof aren't working as a CB partnership. Matic isn't helping with his lack of mobility and poor marking.

Bailly has been made a scapegoat.
He is our best CB. When he plays we play more confidently from the back.

Personally i woukd play 442, Martial and Rashford up front.
Attack defences, go out and terrify them. Currently the long ball upto Lukaku is flawed, predictable and a guarantee of giving the ball back to the opposition.

Top 4 is possible but if we lose another 2-3 games before January, it will become very difficult.

The reality is, Mourinho is stuck in his ways. I hope he can work it out.

Sadly, this woll be a season of fustration. hopefully we can qualify from the CL group stages.

The january transfer window may well be a crucial one.

Agree2 Disagree1

13 Nov 2018 10:12:28
Hi Guys

So its Tuesday, we have got Monday out of the way so time for some reflection on the weekend without the raw emotion attached.

For me the table doesn't lie it was 1st against 8th, so was it really that much of a surprise the result. The victory there in April was just a fluke, they should of been out of sight after 40 minutes.

Sunday showed me what I probably already knew. Their are leaps and bounds ahead as far as we are concerned in terms of comparison. They have everything in place now, the coach, the money, the players, the infrastructure, no one can dispute that.

What shocks me as a United fan is how we have allowed this to materialise and not moved with it. Anyone who know's me know's I don't buy this lack of support from the owners rubbish. A lot of responsibility here lies with the footballing operation at the club.

I look in comparison now dare I say it with the Scousers and them lot. Look at the comparisons in professionalism from top to bottom. You have Klopp and Pep, animated managers getting the best out of their players. All we have is a bloke who stands there pulling silly faces at the camera and cupping his ear after the odd fluky uninspiring win (Turin)

Wheres the structure, Wheres the professionalism that was once commonplace at our club under our greatest managers Busby and Ferguson. We have a manager now who stays and the Lowrey and can check out anytime he wants. what's that all about, we can't even turn up for our home games on time. What are we becoming here.

We're the laughing stock of football at the minute and rightly so. Millions and Millions spent on players who couldn't care less about us. And fans who just want to blame everything on your owner or Ed Woodward. You just can't keep pointing the finger at them. Ferguson's stubborn stand off with the press proving he could win it with average Joes. Where was the planning for the future in that exercise?

Wheres our director of football? Who is advising the owners on what's best for the club and the best way to do it? Its an absolute shambles and this won't get any better without change. We can't keep letting these managers run down the season to the point of mathematical impossibility of top four. We need to act now.

Sam Allardyce could get as much out of this team as Mourinho, its disgraceful football and an unprofessional set up in terms of the footballing operation. Let the Glazers and Woodward do what they do best on the commercial side, you can't fault them where revenue is concerned.

Would you back Mourinho again after Fred. I know I wouldn't . Take action now for me or you can forget top four. Its probably gone already.

13 Nov 2018 10:57:07
Unfortunately I think big Sam would actually get more from these players than Jose is. All the talk about whether players are good enough is misleading, there are enough good players in our squad but we are rubbish for one reason, work rate. Least sprints, lowest distance covered, absolutely no pressure on the ball without possession and slow attacking and lack of numbers in attack when in possession. This is either instructions of the manager or player laziness, either way something needs doing. If its Jose he needs to go, if its the players they need dropping.

13 Nov 2018 11:16:34
Good post Mike.

The short answer to your question on why we have let it get this bad. Just have a look at the thousands of posts from 6 months into Jose's Utd career until today, where he still has many Utd fans excusing and backing this dross. I knew after a couple of months we hired the Chelsea Manager that got sacked, not the idealist younger fresher version.

If fans that know a bit about footy can't see it through their desperation (possibly more than Woody), then it's not hard to imagine that an incompetent board are happy or swayed to put up with it. Americans tend to be more dreamy than Brits in my experience, SUPER POSITIVE, words seem to count more than actions because it's all about brand. That spreads down and inevitably it's easy to see any slight positive as more than it is. We have turned into a fake club.

We are weak, we lack that ruthlessness that top teams have. We even see it in our players that lack any sort of character on the football pitch. Manager isn't committed and past his best, players don't look capable, the club is losing or has lost what made it great. No passion, just lame excuses and many of our weak fans need to stop accepting this garbage we are served up week in week out.

We have hired 3 defensive managers on the spin, spent hundreds of millions putting square pegs in round holes. We look like a bunch of random individuals playing with no team identity and the manager has to take the blame, closely followed by the incompetent board above him football wise.

13 Nov 2018 11:14:40
Jose can't get the players working hard enough. This was shown in his final season at Chelsea, they stopped playing for him and the side would have been relegated had Jose not been sacked. The following season with much the same squad they win the league.

He was sacked at Madrid because the players stopped playing for him.

The statistics show that our side don't put in the work, it doesn't matter if that is because of Jose's instructions or because the players don't want to play for him. The result is the same, Jose needs to leave in order for our squad to play to their potential.

Some people argue that its the modern players attitude, they don't want to work hard, they are lazy and earn too much money.

Yet, managers such as Simeone, Kloop, Sarri, Pep and Pochettino have made their players run through walls for them, they have worked them hard and they have responded and pushed themselves.

Maybe slagging off your players to the press doesn't work anymore, the rights and wrongs of that are irrelevant. A manager can't change society, he can however adapt to it. Jose isn't adapting, and its costing us.

I still wouldn't sack him yet, mostly because I don't think the right people or structure are in place yet. I feel it could be a case of out of the frying pan and into the fire. Especially if Zidane gets the job, who is the likely candidate.

13 Nov 2018 11:27:33
Whilst the debate rages regarding who is to blame for our current malaise it got me thinking to how Pep would deal with our current squad. If we accept the premise that he's the best manager and Mourinho is vastly underachieving then how different would our team look if Pep was in charge?

Pep has predominantly favoured 4-3-3 so no radical changes there. City were heavily linked with both Sanchez and Fred so I'll assume both would be involved. Considering Pep's insistence of high intensity pressing, combined with mobility, fluidity and possession I have attempted to select a team in his image from our current squad.

De Gea, Bailly, Rojo, Young, Shaw, Fred, Herrera, Pogba, Martial, Lingard, Sanchez.

I'm not entirely sure who he'd play at RB or CB. I think Bailly would compete with Lindelof for the right side and I think Rojo would play on the left to bring some balance. I also think Mata could play in one of the more advanced midfield positions but have opted for Herrera as he brings more energy and intensity to the team.

I think the main difference is Mourinho's preference for strength, height and power and his mentality to sit deep and absorb pressure in comparison to Pep's more pro active, attacking and fluid approach. Smalling, Matic, Lukaku even Fellaini are all stalwarts of his team and I'm not convinced any would play under Pep and certainly not all together.

There would obviously be a shift in mentality and a plan to win the ball back higher up the pitch meaning our defence would be under considerably less pressure. Sanchez, Lingard, Herrera, Fred all have the mobility and mentality to put the opposition under intense pressure and win the ball back. Pogba and Martial would have to follow suit and work harder.

I'd love to see our team go out and play with hunger, intensity and desire and to see what it's capable of with the more technical players in our squad given a platform to excel.

Forget about the structure of the Club or a DOF etc the most important man is the manager. If Pep was in charge we wouldn't be talking about that stuff anyway. We would have a clear identity and vision. We would all recognise the style of play, know what direction the Club was heading and what was needed to improve.

Mourinho plays pragmatic, percentage football. He has historically managed good players where he gets them well drilled and organised, based predominantly around a defensive structure which sees his team sit deep and is difficult to break down. He then relies on individuals or set pieces to win him matches. When he spoke about our defeat on Sunday he is factually correct in what he said. The system and tactics were theoretically sound. It provided us with a platform to stay in the game and compete against a better side. Mourinho can't legislate for individual mistakes, he can't play the game for his players. What he's failed to understand is we are Man Utd. We don't want to play percentage football, we don't want to be the underdogs. He doesn't have a Terry to organise his defence or a Ronaldo to provide him consistent moments of individual brilliance. I think any coach in the league could manage this squad and have us in 8th position. With the players we have I don't think we would fall much lower even if I was in charge. Considering Jose CV I find this unnerving but his regular outbursts and public criticism of players have left him with bridges to build and wounds to heal. There are signs relationships have healed, results have improved but I get the impression it's a fragile peace and he's seriously up against it for a top 4 finish now.

13 Nov 2018 12:37:23
So in summary then DLIB nothing looks likely to change anytime soon.

You have suggested a team that may fit the Pep style, but there is about as much chance of Jose playing that team as Shergar leading them on to the pitch serenaded by Elvis.

Ultimately we are left in the same position (8th) with the same boring percentage type football that is driving us all insane as United fans. No one finds it funny anymore. We are close to having a gallows sense of humour here.

Souness put Neville on the spot and he was dead right, why is he not getting the best out of these players? You can take the City game out of the equation. Look at the Bournemouth game last weekend they should have been out of sight again before Tony Marshall scored. Its unacceptable.

No one fears coming to Old Trafford anymore, they fancy themselves and why shouldn't they. You make one of the biggest coups in the transfer market last January make him the best paid player in the premiership and he plays for the last 20 minutes in most games. Its an absolute disgrace.

The owners need to take up the baton here and say why are you not getting the best out of these players and getting us results on a consistent basis, when Guardiola and Klopp are?

If its all down to the manager as you allude to, then surely that is where the change needs to be made. Percentage Pragmatic Football, Its isn't working here it just isn't. This conversation is exactly the same as we had last December after we were beat by them at OT. Everyone watching a derby at OT where we looked like the away team with no spirit or pride in the jersey.

Everyone is sick to death of it. I phone mates up to see if they fancy coming watching it in the pub and the response you get is why would I want to spoil a nice afternoon's drinking watching that dross. Its not just me here, its most people you speak to.

I couldn't care less about his past record, I want a rosy future like City have got under Pep and Liverpool under Klopp, your past counts for nothing in modern football. Change needed and quickly for me.

13 Nov 2018 16:36:43
Really good post that, interesting read.

13 Nov 2018 16:58:59
I second that. Great post DLIB.

13 Nov 2018 17:17:33
Good repost Moston I admire your passion and enthusiasm. I can't argue with much of your post, the majority of our fans feel exactly the same.

My post was speculative and rhetorical designed to illicit if people think a change of style, mentality and manager would yield considerably better results!

Let's not forget yet despite the rigid, turgid and unimaginative football as it stands Jose has won two trophies, finished runners up and reached an FA cup final. Is that really so bad?!

I think that even the most ardent supporter would accept that Pep inherited a vastly superior squad. He has been fully backed by his board who share the same ideology and ambition. Jose on the other hand has continually had to fight fires and persuade the board to bend to his will with limited success. It would appear that they are at loggerheads and have differing opinions on transfer policy and how to move the Club forward. This animosity must seep into the psyche of the players and only diminishes Jose's power within the dressing room.

Many of our fans like to dismiss Jose CV which I find disrespectful and naive. Jose has been hugely successful using his particular brand of football. He has was won titles in England, Spain, Italy and Portugal with four different teams with differing resources. He has won the Champions League with two different Clubs including the treble. He last title came only 3 years ago so to call him a dinosaur is a touch premature and short sighted. Let's not forget Pep hasn't won the Champions League since 2011. He couldn't replicate this at Bayern despite inheriting a treble winning team and he hasn't come remotely close at City. In fact Pelegrini managed to navigate City's passage to the semi finals.

Jose style is not to everyone's taste but we can't argue that's it's not been hugely successful.

His methods are reliant on organisation and discipline. This lays the foundation which is then reliant upon individuals to provide the quality up front to win the game. His best teams stifled and strangled the opposition. The opposition were lucky to create a chance never mind score a goal. His teams were hard to play against, often beaten before a ball had been kicked and certainly defeated after the first goal was scored, there was simply no way back.

He has brought some of these qualities to Utd. I think we remain unbeaten when we have scored the first goal and our win percentage in these games is ridiculously high.

Injuries, loss of form and a lack of quality in our defence has meant he has been unable to build the team on solid foundations. He has been unable to instil defensive discipline in the likes of Pogba and Martial and we have lacked the mercurial genius upfront to spearhead our attack to score and create goals.

His sullen mood preseason and confrontation with the board eroded all confidence in our fragile defenders. We are conceding chances and goals with alarming regularity and this is so unlike a Jose team.

It is my belief that the Smalling/ Lindelof axis simply isn't good enough. Both make basic mistakes on a regular basis and I wouldn't have neither anywhere near my team.

Our results have improved because Martial is now fulling his potential and delivering goals and assists on a regular basis. I've heard others suggest Lindelof has improved yet if he was performing at the same level as Martial we wouldn't be conceding so many goals and would be winning games more easily.

Any further success under Mourinho will be dependent on finding a reliable, consistent defence, capable of keeping clean sheets and the continued development and improvement in Martial providing the moments of quality required to win games. Of course if the likes of Pogba, Sanchez, Lukaku, Lingard and Rashford can also improve and replicate the form of Martial things will improve considerably.

Mourinho does have a style and method which has brought him great success, unfortunately it's not universally to our liking and without a solid defence he's facing an uphill battle!

13 Nov 2018 18:52:31
Player wise, we need to stop the obsession with high profile, expensive, often elderly players who may be good for some commercial exploitation.
Maybe a couple of top players to build a team around, but I feel some lower profile (maybe younger) additions might be better.

They would probably realise they gave had the opportunity of a lifetime come their way and would play out of their skins to keep it. This could only benefit the club and preserve funds for when we really need to splash the cash.
Just thinking - perhaps I live in fools paradise.



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