Manchester United banter 80873


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04 Nov 2018 11:58:32
Watched the game yday and again we seem to be a 45 minute second half team, or only reacting once we fall behind. Have the players have gone into business for themselves, Jose's plan sees them devoid of ideas then once we go behind the players wake up and seemingly do what they think is best to win the game, same at Newcastle second half, same at Chelsea second half, same yday. If we could hook up a good first half display we would take some beating but it feels like we are playing within ourselves, shackled almost until we have to break free and rescue a game.

Agree5 Disagree5

04 Nov 2018 12:47:42
I don't believe that incredibly lethargic first half hour had anything to do with Jose's planning. There's a big difference between starting out playing contained football, and what we saw in that display. It was entirely due to the players themselves.

04 Nov 2018 13:32:50
Agreed Shaw. It has been the story of most of our poor performances. Players not giving it there all.

I mean the difference in martial the last number of weeks. He has ran more, tracked back, been willing to put in a better shift and look what happens, we are and most importantly, he is seeing the fruit of his labour.

It's not rocket science, we just want to see the players work harder and their talent will do the rest!

Herrera epitomizes it. Evident when he came on yesterday.

Even Sanchez looked a lot more comfortable where he played yesterday. His running and willingness yesterday stretched the play, giving more options in the final third.

Big week now and we need to see 180 mins of it.

04 Nov 2018 12:24:31
Or they finally just do what they were told from the start. Can't always be joses fault. These players have to stand up and be counted.

04 Nov 2018 12:28:00
Ah i see when we lose its the coaches fault but when we win its down to the players having secret meetings to defy the coach and implement their own tactical masterplan. Do me a favour!

04 Nov 2018 14:12:49
But is martial playing for a contract here or elsewhere.

04 Nov 2018 14:39:30
Yes its all down to the players angel. All likes of martial needed was to work hard and track back in the majority games he didn't start or was left home entirely for no reason.

Nothing to do with mourinho basically letting sanchez, lukaku and matic have rubbish games after rubbish game while throwing everyone else under the bus and being completely unable to coach any player to actually improve.

We are the only top team that doesn't press, our go to plan most games fellaini is available is bring him on and lump it up to him. We have no attacking identity and mourinho clearly can't teach the team to defend while being unable to play overly defensive especially with ddg turning into a human for once and can't save everything our defence let's through.

All these problems will be solved if only the players ran more and showed some good ol pashun an komitment.

The lengths jose fans will go to blame everyone else in really amazing.

04 Nov 2018 14:55:08
Once we got going we had a clear attacking identity and we created at least 6 good chances.

Our problem is in defence where Smalling remains a liability, Bailly has lost the plot, and Matic seems to have gone past his sell by date. That in itself calls for a containment approach rather than a pressing game. We have too many people who cannot defend the open spaces effectively behind the press. Every time we went forward in the first half we opened ourselves up and gave away good chances to a team that actually works hard and has been coached to exploit our defensive frailties.

{Ed001's Note - Shaw is not a good defender either, he is too far away from his man most of the time, he does not anticipate things at all.}

04 Nov 2018 16:27:33
Shaw smalling was always a bad defender it's not exactly . Bailly has lost the plot because he has been constantly thrown under the bus and basically been used as a punching bag for our defensive frailities by Mourinho.

It isn't really surprising that a guy can't perform well when you constantly criticize him on TV and bench him for multiple games everytime he doesn't play well, I know one other player who Mourinho treated the same way. Right now he is the reason Mourinho isn't out of the job yet.

Matic keeps starting game after game while being rubbish, poor Pereira sadly can't get a look in because of 1 bad game. Matic's inability to move is a big reason why we are unable to defend, he is slow can't cover the defense and dawdles on ball only to give it away. We paid 40mn for 2 good months, and people wonder why Woodward doesn't trust mouriho's old player choices.

Also we defend 10 yards deeper than most big teams, is that down to the players as well. We don't press because no Mourinho team really ever played the pressing game, also just creating chances isn't exactly identity. That's individual ability. Take martial and pogba out of the equation and none of those chances actually materialize.

04 Nov 2018 17:08:29
Ken not saying it’s what I think but I theory I heard the other day. I’ve been a Jose defender and have always questioned the players attitudes aswell as the managers. If we could start implementing our coming from behind performances from the get go we’d be hard to stop.

04 Nov 2018 17:22:08
Look at martials stats CSM. There is no doubt that he is working harder these past number of weeks compared to recent times.

He has been incredibly frustrating up until recent weeks and was not deserving of a continued starting berth.

And yes, most of it is ultimately down to the players CSM. We have underperformed IMO since Fergie left except for maybe last season where City were just on another level. And the common denominator is the majority of players that have been at this club for the past 5 seasons or so. Players who have not given there all to the cause or just not been good enough.

Jose is a top class coach and I think, if he is given more time and a couple of more players in and out, we will see that. He's not the perfect fit but he is what he is.

04 Nov 2018 17:49:25
Csm i posted the other day i think its a bit of both. As it had to be.
I think the players are doing more of what he asks and expects and in yurn i think he has loosened the reigns a bit and shown a bit more tollerance.
If results continue to come you will probably see more give and take by both sides.
One thing for sure is that they are fighting to win games.

04 Nov 2018 17:58:09
I think the next 2 or 3 players we recruit are what will seal Jose's fate one way or another, the man is a skilled coach but really divides option on his methods and the way he carries himself . When he took the job we were way off and looked 4 or 5 players away from competing at the top, the problem is a dozen players later and that's still maybe the case . I don't really know who has final say on recruitments but I'd assume he's involved, I'm not sure in hindsight how many of the players we have purchased given a time machine people would pay that sort of money for and buy them again .
I hope the next 2 or 3 players recruited nail down a place in the side from the get go as lots have been players in and out the side recently Fred, Bailly, linlehoff, Sanchez, ect .
I've quite enjoyed watching utd in a lot of their games recently and they can be terrible then good in the same game . Martial has shown a skilled player playing well lifts spirits .

04 Nov 2018 18:26:24
Martial is back to the form he showed before he got dropped for Sanchez.
And then left on the bench while Sanchez had bad game after bad game.

Been given a run of games and he is back playing well . Fancy that.

04 Nov 2018 20:54:59
Jred even when he was getting a chance he wasn't putting in the shift. He wasn't deserving. Jose laid it out what he wanted. The penny seems to have finally dropped, working harder and reaping the rewards, fancy that?

04 Nov 2018 22:15:28
Its a bit of both to be fair. Martial is obviously working harder off the ball both defensively and offensively. Jose, every pundit and most supporters could see he was not doing enough.
Its a bit chicken and egg.
I think jose has picked him and trusted him and not jumped on every mistake or cul de sac he runs down. Martial in return has tajen on board and learnt how hard he needs to work to get the best out of his talent.
What came first the increased effort or more tollerence from the manager is anyone's guess but its working for all parties.
If martial sustains this form everyone is a winner.
A bit like shaw jose needs players to show desire and dedication to winning and doing whatever it takes to win. that's a tough challenge mentally for every player. In the past when his swuads buy into it the results have come and for the most part the football was better than we have seen here.
If he reunites this squad and they buy into his demands and he shows more tollerence and trust then we will be in better shape.

05 Nov 2018 06:22:15
Ken while agree with what you are saying. The quicker Mourinho leaves the better it is for everyone, what we are seeing now is too little too late.

He can't coach this team. We don't have characters he likes to work with and we can't fund his quick fix strategy given results it has produced.

Angel last time he started 5-6 games in a row, he scored 4 goals in last 3 games or something. Stop creating facts to suit your agenda.

05 Nov 2018 08:32:30
Jose has trusted martial and Shaw and we are seeing what good players they are .
That what a manager should do, a month ago everyone wanted rid of martial and Shaw now as always they have just moved on to different players.
The manager needs to get the best out of the players that's always been the issue under Jose.
Pep for example has his players playing to there potential Jose has never really managed that . And just buying new shinny toys hasn't been the answer because the issue has been getting the players playing to there potential.

05 Nov 2018 10:02:11
Shaw and martial after a period of time kicking their heals on the bench have decided to put in the required workrateand professionalism to deserve a game and we are seeinf what good players they can be when they do that. They are reaping the rewards for their change of attitude and commitment.
All you have to do is look at their stats. Ground covered, sprints, touches on the ball look at their heat maps.
Increased efforts = place in fhe team = better performances and out puts.
It should go without saying but it took them a while to realise.

05 Nov 2018 15:29:12
Martial stats for the 10 games before we bought Sanchez are slightly better than his last 10 games .
Shaw played well last season the odd time he was given a game, just got dropped time and again .

05 Nov 2018 16:41:18
Which datstats are better jred.
Goals scored distanced covered touches on the ball completed passes and minutes played are better in the last 5 games than in any of his games before xmas last year.
So which stats are you looking at?

05 Nov 2018 18:16:05
I think that only fits your narrative jred. When the truth is both players have undoubtedly put their heads down, worked harder and reaping rewards.

But no way, don't credit the coach for that.



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