02 Feb 2017 13:54:09
Ok now we've all had time to digest yesterday's result and performance where do we all realistically think we'll finish?
It's very obvious to me that there are not enough goals in our team. This seems surprising as on paper Zlatan, Rooney, Miki, Martial, Rashford and Mata should all be able to contribute at least 10 league goals each!
Even Pogba, Herrera and Fellaini should be able to contribute 5 goals plus!
I think it's time we have to accept that all these draws and lack of goals cannot be simply explained away by bad luck, poor referring decisions and great goal keeping displays!
Our very good winning run coincided with Zlantan going on a scoring spree but if he doesn't score nobody else seems to contribute on a consistent basis!
This for me raises several questions -
1) Are the others not performing and I have widely over estimated how many goals they should be contributing? If this is the case are they good enough?
2) Are our wide players rotated too frequently meaning nobody gets a good run in the team and this leads to the inconsistency we are witnessing?
3) Is Jose too pragmatic? Is he brave enough in his team selections especially at Old Trafford? Is too much defensive responsibility expected of our attacking players especially our wide players?
4) Whilst Zlatan's scoring record cannot be criticised does he offer enough to the team in terms of his movement and intensity? Would we be more of an attacking threat without him in the team and would the goals be shared more evenly?
I would be interested to hear other people's opinions as to why we are struggling to consistently break teams down and what can be done to fix this?
02 Feb 2017 14:20:21
I'd go with option 2, he has too many options out wide. he should stick with Martial and Rashford for me and play mikki in the hole
02 Feb 2017 14:35:29
Hi Danny -
1. Yes other players are not performing to the standards required, it seems to be 1 good game followed by 3 anonymous ones for most of the lads.
2. Yes, there is far too much rotation with both the wingers and their full backs. So much checking back or taking extra touches because people aren't on the same wave lengths, little trust in the team.
3. Yes Jose is far too pragmatic, we play more long balls than under LVG but in general our build up play is very slow and we have a safety first mindset. This is shown by our midfield three that very rarely break at speed.
4. I had the same issue with Rooney a few years ago as I do with Zlatan - they may do their job (arguable), but to the detriment of the rest of the team. It's amazing how many times Zlatan can;t make a simple pass, allows his man to get ahead of him to intercept a pass to feet, and how little he offers himself to a wide player as an outlet (that is partly because defenders can double up on him, because we don't attack from midfield at pace) .
Ultimately there are very few relationships in place, players like Rashford, Martial, Lingard, Darmian all look like rabbits in headlights whenever they have a choice to make. Then we have Mata, Rooney, Fellaini, Carrick, Blind, Pogba and Zlatan who are comparatively very slow to cover ground, which allows opponents to set-up with ease.
The only player who makes selfless runs is Herrera, watch every one of the rest, they only make any effort with a run if they have a very high chance of getting the ball. We have too many selfish players with their energy and people want/ need too much time on the ball because of a lack of options.
We struggle to break down teams because we are slow to commit in numbers, are lazy and obvious with our runs off the ball and very slow at releasing the ball unless it's a dead cert pass (legacy of LVG era imo) . All in all I am not seeing much progress week-week, same shape, same set-up, same problems.
We should batter Leicester this weekend with the way they are playing, but it will be yet another case of us struggling to break a team down and maybe a sneaky win or another bore draw. It's all too obvious, we rely too much on a moment of magic from players that offer very little during a game. Zlatan more than Pogba but both of them are contributing very little to our game and the others are not capable of making up the numbers.
Bad all round imo. Jones looked great yesterday until his injury, shame.
02 Feb 2017 15:15:13
Hi Beast,
Great post and a really interesting read!
I can't disagree with any of your observations, they all make perfect sense to me.
Football is a team game and I agree we don't seem to have forged any meaningful relationships or understandings maybe with the exception of Jones and Rojo! I'm not sure either are the best individually but as a partnership they have blossomed and given us a solid platform to build from. I also think Herrera and Mata have a good relationship and understanding and in my opinion they both perform better when they are both in the side together.
I'd love to see Jose inject more pace into our team. I can't decide if Martial has been given enough chances and simply not performed or if he has been pulled from the starting 11 too frequently resulting in the inconsistency we've been seeing. It's a fine line I suppose and I have questioned his desire and commitment myself on a few occasions this season!
I just think the lad has got real talent and potential and Jose expects too much from him defensively and he plays far to deep for my liking. I can't decide if he's being slightly mismanaged or has not been able to live up to the standards of last season?
I totally agree re Zlatan whilst he still has an important role in the squad I think he's been over played!
I'd love to see a front three of Rasford, Miki and Martial be given more of a chance. I think that has pace, movement and more penetration.
Thanks again for the debate
02 Feb 2017 15:23:21
Stebor83 I presume you'd play a 4-2-3-1 formation with Martial, Miki, Rashford behind Zlatan with Herrera and Pogba as a two man midfield?
I like the forward line but I think Rashford is more effective though the middle and I have concerns about Pogba playing as a two?
That being said I think it would offer more of an attacking threat certainly at home against the lower placed sides!
02 Feb 2017 16:22:27
Danny I don't think we are struggling to break teams down, the fact that only Mam City have had more shots this season shows that we are creating chances.
We just aren't putting them away.
I don't think a whole lot is wrong with our team tactically.
I think we could do with more quality and consistency from our full backs, and we need to find a replacement for Carrick as we shouldn't rely so much on a 35 year old.
02 Feb 2017 17:13:04
Hi Shappy,
I totally agree regarding Carrick replacing him in the summer is essential.
I can see your point with your comments about the full backs greater consistency in their delivery into the box and the final third is required as they predominately provide the attacking width in our team.
Maybe I'm guilty of over analysing but if we're creating chances and missing them surely that is an indication of a lack of quality from our attacking players?
To draw one or two games at Old Trafford against lower half teams can be explained away as blips or put down to poor finishing but for it to be continuing on a regular basis suggests a deeper problem?
On a positive note we do appear to be dominating almost every game and creating a number of very presentable goal scoring opportunities in almost every game so if we can just convert a few more of those chances a top 4 finish is not yet beyond the realms of possibility!
02 Feb 2017 18:12:33
Not nessessarily, sometimes that's just the way things go.
I think we have excellent players in forward positions, so I don't see a lack of quality. Just rub of the green.
There are other issues of course but I don't think they directly relate to the number of draws we are getting. The lack of width from our full backs being the main one.
You can see Jose trying to do something about that later in games when he has played Young, Lingard and Mkhitaryan in the full back positions to try and push for a winner.
02 Feb 2017 19:28:25
@Danny, I was thinking still 4-3-3 but with martial and rashford a bit more narrower and closer to ibra so the pace around ibra is closer to him and wingback creating width. Then mikki dropping in to a conventional 3 midfield when we haven't got the ball but playing in the hole when we have. I agree the 4-2-3-1 would take too much away from pogba. I think eventually rashford and or martial will go through the middle but for the time being I still want them on the pitch so wings will have to do. Tye hardest part is who to drop out of the cm 3 to fit mikki in as herrera and Carrick have to play for me and there's no way I'd drop pogba. That's where I'd struggle
02 Feb 2017 19:30:47
@shappy, out of curiosity who would you look to replace Carrick with
02 Feb 2017 20:28:10
Strebor83, its a tricky one as it really depends which way you wanna go.
Carrick was brought in to replace Scholes/ Keane, he was a very different player to both of them, but was effective due to the changing nature of football and the changing style of the team. that's evolution.
I don't think it works to replace a player like for like when a player has been very successful as the pressure and expectation on the incoming player is unfair. So I could see us going for a different kind of holding midfielder.
Carrick was more of a deep playmaker, Blind could play a very similar role in the same way as Carrick has. He's good positionally from a defensive point of view to make interceptions and clearences. And he is probably the best passer we have after Carrick. But would Blind ever be considered as good as Carrick? Probably not so he would be on a hiding to nothing.
So I could see us go for more of a destroyer, someone who will aggressively defend the space infront of the back four and cover for high pressing full backs. Bakayoko is flavour of the month but William Carvalho could do just as good a job.
I think we might be better off going for that kind of player, maybe a player like that would take more of the defensive work load off of Pogba and Herrera which would allow them to focus more on attacking possibly making us more of the threat going forward.
02 Feb 2017 21:19:55
@shappy, that does make sense, probably why we tried for kante. Really don't get the hate with blind, he does everything he's asked well, not great but usually a solid 7-10, I do hate the need for a superstar in every position which some fans seem to have. As for the other two I don't really watch footie out of the England but I have seen a few mention carvalho.
03 Feb 2017 08:36:03
Problem Danny is that we don't have a specialised winger. Rashford and martial and Lingard are all central players being asked to play a wide roll. We don't have a hazard or a Sane or a Costa or a Ronaldo. For a club who's success in the past was built on wing play, we are seriously lacking in that department.
In addition, our fullbacks are woeful in attacking positions. So consequently, our play is very narrow and easy to defend against.