25 Jan 2017 12:17:18
I think we are well below where we should be - not one of us would have us in this position at the start of the season. In fact I doubt any person in the world would have predicted Man Utd would be in 6th place at this point in the season and looking worse by the game!
Expectations are so low that most fans seem to ignore the fact we are in 6th place and realistically top 4 is a very difficult task to accomplish now. I'm not posting this for a rise, I'm trying to add some balance to all the posts I read with people being impressed with how we are doing and the direction etc.
We had a terrible start under Jose, we then started doing well for a month, seeing some tempo and structure, which was crucial in him keeping his job imo. But for the past month we have gone backwards in our performances. I still don't see any relationships on the pitch, I see potential, but nothing concrete. If Carrick is missing (an old man) we look devoid of any balance, our stars for the future look lost, (Martial, Shaw, Rashford yes and Pogba) . So I think we should take a step back and look at us compared to what we anticipated.
Who will play Rw/ LW/ LB/ CB next game?
Can somebody tell me where the progress has been and hand on heart tell me they think we have been making progress over the past month for example of are we playing like we did at the start of the season again? That run of 3-4 good performances seems to be the exception not the rule. LVG had a run like this, yes we are shooting more now, but we still look far too patchy, lazy and unsure of ourselves.
I'm not totally doom and gloom, because things were very bad under LVG and Jose had a difficult job, but let's not be delusional about the progress being made. Key players aren;t performing with any sort of consistency, we have no idea who should be playing where still for the most part. It's all a mish-mesh at the minute.
So it's better than last season, but it's still more often boring to watch and most people could predict how we will play from week to week, slow build up, lots of pot shots, they occasional gilt edge chance missed and a crappy goal to either nick a win or salvage a point.
5/ 10 performance at best from the manager so far. But better than 1/ 10 for the last guy so yes progress, but pathetic progress when you look at our size, transfer funds, wage bill and the types of overall performances we are putting out. Not just picking and choosing a game here and there to disprove a general point being made.
25 Jan 2017 12:35:36
i will give you a 2/ 10 on for that post Beast. One must be really blind or a Liverpool fan to not see the progress that we have made.
25 Jan 2017 12:41:58
I don't agree with a lot you have written IMO its a bit too negative although I respect your opinion. I think we are playing some good stuff and are at 75% of what we are capable of.
I still don't see us finishing top 4, we won't be far off but we have a tough run in and our finishing is poor. Perfect example was the Hull cup game 1st leg- we hammered them but their keeper hardly had a save to make . remember some of the wild shots, the poor final pass time and time again? Then the next game was Lpool at home and all we heard was " look at all the chances we made against Hull a few days ago if we carry on like that " etc etc etc But football doesn't work like that, we fluffed it against Lpool as you can't just turn it on . missing chances is just that we miss chances . it doesn't equate to missing chances so we will start scoring soon or hammer someone . so its 5th place for me sadly. Then we played Stoke. and missed chances .
There is a good first 15 in that squad. a few will go and a few will come in, i'm behind JM all the way but there is still a lot of work to do for me to say we will be minimum top 4 in the next 3 consecutive years
25 Jan 2017 12:48:26
i didn't have us in 6th but i didn't think it would be this tight .
with the exception of chelsea i think there is little between the rest of the top 6
25 Jan 2017 12:50:38
If I can tell it's you from the first line then it's clear you are just going for a bite, you bored at work mate?
25 Jan 2017 13:08:58
Beast 2 weeks ago you posted that you thought we would go the rest of the season unbeaten so which is it mate?
Iat the outset of the season I thought weer would be better but it wad not the case it took Jose a while and it took his new players a bit to settle.
If he were a machine and his players were robots then it would be easier.
I certaintly didn't have Chelsea down to do this well this season. Them aside we are very much with the others. Poch in season 3 klopp in season 2 wenger in season 476 and pep suffering just like Jose in aragon 2 with these players showing a bit of inconsistency.
Your attitude towards building a team and your expectations of human beings are unreasonable imo in this case.
The effort is there no doubt the will is there. Of course its not all plain sailing after 5 months of being together.
This all coupled with the fact that a lot of players had the confidence knocked out of them for 2 or 3 years. Can you imagine how low herrera was having to play second fiddle to rooney in midfield and watching the tripe he was producing and still not getting picked. Thankfully José is getting the best from herrera. So it us taking a while.
Recent displays have been a bit hit and miss but apart from Chelsea it's the same for everybody after a really busy schedule. Real Madrid have just had a few iffy results. So have psg so have Liverpool. Even Chelsea have dipped overt last few weeks. You are off your rocker if you think weer ate not doing a lot better than we were at the outset
25 Jan 2017 13:19:25
ken
he was a machine or his players are robots .
its a shame there not they all have ups and downs
25 Jan 2017 13:25:48
hahahahaha "I'm not posting this for a rise, I'm trying to add some balance to all the posts I read". that's a good one beastie!
it just hit me, you're like the donald trump of this group lol.
25 Jan 2017 13:40:48
We looked like we had found ourselves, but we have gone backwards since that post, in fact our performances before were not great.
Middlesborough wasn't great.
West Ham was awful considering they had 10 men and they missed a sitter at 0-0.
Liverpool and Stoke were both boring, slow, lazy performances, just like the previous 2 games. That's the league games this calendar year (technically boro was new years eve) .
A month is a long time in football. West Brom and Sunderland were good games if I recall correctly, but before that was the terrible Palace performance where we nicked it last minute.
If you actually look at the league games, it's very dull to watch us. A few cup games have helped gloss over it, mainly against poor teams.
I did think we would kick on and we are going backwards performance wise, I was wrong about us going unbeaten I hold my hands up - since I opened my trap we have regressed. I put money on it and I am gutted how the green shoots seem to be weeding up again.
Most of us use livechat, it's been mainly the cup games where we are all praising us and who have we played really in those games? Most league games this season we have been all saying how we are not playing well, or need to improve XYZ, complaining about the slow build up, low energy to our play.
One good performance seems to count the same as 5 bad ones with some of you. I appreciate we want to be supportive, but being realistic we are still underachieving and we look just as dysfunctional now as we did 5 months ago. I want to see solid progress but it's very up and down, mostly down.
25 Jan 2017 13:43:52
They do indeed all have ups and downs jred. I think Jose is doing a good job with most players. Martial has been poor this season but young players have big swings in form and there are outside influences that can affect their form. But as long as they train hard and continue to work hard that will right itself over time. But it's how they behave and work during the down periods will determine how well they do and develop. Too often agents brothers and fathers for example go on to social media to complain and that imo does not help their client. If the manager is not selecting a player for whatever reason the only way to answer him is on the training ground not through social media or the press. I've not heard or seen martial or shaw or for example give out but their hangers on have been vocal and its unsettling. Imo they would be better having a word with their clients giving them a dose of reality on where their game is at and encourage them to get their head down.
25 Jan 2017 13:54:58
ken
no doubt its not always a case of this player is fat or lazy or doesn't care .
its a learnjng curve imo and all players have ups and downs .
i can remember giggs danny behr period, sharps hacienda flu the circus around becks .
but need to learn to live with it .
imagine how much it could of saved us if pogba didn't listen to his agent
25 Jan 2017 13:56:23
ken
i actually agree with its a pojnt I've been trying to make . then agsin that might be my small mind syndrome
25 Jan 2017 14:06:24
Probably jred
25 Jan 2017 14:12:10
ken
we don't all live at carrington or work for top clubs .
we can only give a humble opinion
25 Jan 2017 14:40:42
I agree jred. But we do get good insights from people who are in the know and sometimes people get reliable information from those that do work in the likes of carrington. Then there is our own eyes so when a player looks out of shape and is carrying a lot of extra baggage and we have been told that they have lifestyle issues and in the case of shaw 3 different managers in 2 years have castigated him over his conditioning and that has been backed up by ed 1 and 2 then there is something in it. let's hope he sees the light and puts in the required effort and changes. There are people at the club to help him and all the players. A broken leg is difficult to overcome and that difficulty is compounded by not doing everything possible to be in better shape.
I hope shaw has his head right now and delivers on his obvious potential. If not he is in danger of becoming the next jermaine pennant instead of the next Maldini it's really up to him.
25 Jan 2017 14:55:35
GDS2 I didn't think it was Beast from the first line. I thought it was the long awaited inputs from the Donald Trump of this site. The MAZE.
25 Jan 2017 15:04:45
ken
i thought you where one of them people?
lvg and hodgson both give shaw stick for the same issue at he same time .
shaw was 19 at the time and has fully admitted he made a mistake 3 years ago and your still bringing it up .
are player not allowed to make and learn from there mistakes or are they tarred for life?
the following summer shaw returned early for pre season and took a united fitness trainer with him on holiday . is that not a player learning from his mistakes?
“I only had myself to blame. I didn’t arrive at the club in the correct shape and things didn’t go to plan. The manager told me his feelings and I totally accepted that.
“At a massive club like United you have to be at your best. But I learned and this season I feel much fitter, much sharper"
"Me and Adan decided to ask a member of the coaching staff to come with us and we paid his flights. He worked us in four sessions per day. We had a football pitch, a gym and an altitude trainer, we did beach runs too. The most important thing for me was to come back fitter pre-season. â€shaw the following year . you mention the negative but never thr positive .
what is it that jose said that was bad?
25 Jan 2017 15:25:39
Jred he has been out of shape this year so why has he not done as he did the year before?
25 Jan 2017 15:29:14
I have not been to carrington this season yet but I hope to be there in April. My old contact does not work there anymore. I will be on the ethihad campus for a few days in April will be in Celtic at the end of Feb. I'll post you pictures if you like.
25 Jan 2017 15:41:50
ken
because he is coming back from a major injury and 12 month out and has picked up a few minor injuries (done his groin twice . which happens when you have been out for a while .
he has also said he never started full training in the summer or full contact football and that for the first few month he still had pain in his leg .
he talked about players not wanting to tackle him in training .
jones has had a good run injury free and we are seeing the results .
you might as well ask why didn't jones do that the last couple of year
25 Jan 2017 15:53:34
tarred for life?
you are talking about a mistake a 18 year old made 3 pre seasons ago .
and forgetting the fact he seemed to of learned from that mistake the following pre season, started the season well and then suffered and an awful injury .
we are also talking about a player who before the injury was starting for england and united at 18 years old . takes hard work to get there .
"People have said I was still limping even after I came off the crutches.
"I still get aches. I don’t go a day without feeling it. It’s 100 per cent better but it’s normal, apparently, to feel it after such a bad injury.
"In the first three or four weeks when I started training outside it felt good, but then all of a sudden it started aching.
"It didn’t hurt, but it was aching and aching and even before I went out I could feel it and I was thinking: ‘**** … is it ever going to go away? ’" shaw a month in to this season
25 Jan 2017 15:56:20
Jred. he keeps eating takeaways, probably doesn't help either regardless of his injuries.
Jones was always in shape and no manager questioned his lifestyle or work ethic.
25 Jan 2017 16:05:50
Groin injuries don't mean you put on weight. It's not an over active thyroid he has its an over active knife and fork. Your happy to have a pop at bastian over his weight and fitness but can't see it on shaw or dare I say it your other favourite.
25 Jan 2017 16:14:54
angle
i eat a few takeaways myself but i'm in great shape .
i bet a few other players do as well
25 Jan 2017 16:01:19
my daughter is playing down at city in april might see u there
25 Jan 2017 16:02:24
Lads,
As much as I think Beast was looking for a bite and bringing out his inner MAZE with the OP it's getting quite boring every thread getting turned into the ken v jred Luke Shaw debate, no offence fellas but I think we all know your opinions now so maybe just after to disagree.
I value of your opinions greatly but neither of you will ever give any ground back so best to call it quits and move on. The OP didn't even mention Shaw, he mentioned a lot of nonsense though, let's have a go at that instead of each other.
25 Jan 2017 16:35:57
ken
i don't think shaw is that over weight, his a big lad tho very well built few pictures of him training looks in great shape .
bastion is at the stage of his life, your right i did have a dig but to be fair to the bloke he probably has one eye on the usa or retiremant .
bit of a low blow tho on my part for a player who has done what he has .
and also someone i know nothing about
25 Jan 2017 16:39:07
gds your probably right .
its better reading the gds v beast or gds v maze ;)
i think i will leave it at that and let shaw prove the doubters wrong
25 Jan 2017 16:45:47
What is nonsense GDS2?
25 Jan 2017 16:59:34
time to get the popcorn out
25 Jan 2017 17:21:20
Go beast😀
25 Jan 2017 17:22:34
Gds you are in no position to preach to others mate. You are the preverbial dog with a bone😀 when it suits you.
25 Jan 2017 18:30:51
Bites from both of you, couldn't ask for more, just making a point fellas 😉
25 Jan 2017 20:13:05
I guess the OP from beast is too far gone now to ask if people including beast consider 6th in the league as good or as bad as 6 points from second.
For me, 6 points from second with a few months to go is a better way of looking at it and its totally realistic (and not just positive police work) .
I am using 2nd place as a bench mark because i tbink chrlsea have won the title now, or at least we cannot win it.
25 Jan 2017 20:29:10
scholes
good point that .
not a lot between 2nd and 6th
25 Jan 2017 20:52:08
Fair point Scholesy, I suppose my main gripe is the performance and relationships on the pitch. I think 6th place points wise is actually close to where we belong performance wise. Look at our goal difference as well, and we have all praised our defence this season.
It's a sad situation that we haven't even left January and we have no hope of winning the league, and we have several teams to leap frog. Look out for Everton as well.
2nd is better than 6th, but it's still not good enough, especially this early in the season. Most of us have us finishing 4th if we are lucky as well now.
25 Jan 2017 21:09:45
I see what your saying beast and i had us winning the title before the start of the season.
6th isn't ideal but 6th and 6 pts from 2nd spot is better than 4th ut 12 pts from 3rd (for example) with teams below us up our ar*es.
This 6 points to make up is very very acheivable for us and finishing second is a mile aheadnof where we were!