21 May 2015 12:43:07
Now a few days ago Brad76 asked if I could redo the write up I did at the start of the season on how LvG likes to set up his midfield in a 433 formation. Now that write up was based on how he managed other teams and how he has stated he likes to see a team set up. But we are a different team to Ajax and the other teams he managed and set up so I will do a write up on what is most important to a great midfield and how we can look to build one ourselves.
So I will start with that I believe to be one of the best three man midfields i've seen in my life time. And that is the great midfield of AC Milan in the early 00's. Pirlo the best deep lying playmaker of the modern era would sit deep and control the tempo from deep. Next to him was Gattuso, he was the bite and the "water carrier" of the team, he would win the ball and battle in the middle giving Pirlo the space and time he needed to operate in. Then Kaka as the most advanced midfielder would be the guy to unlock the opposition defence from the edge of the penalty area. It had a wonderful balance and benefitted from having at least two of the best midfielders at the time in it.
What made it work so well was the solid foundations it was built on, Milan had arguably the best defence in the world at the time with a great goalkeeper. When your midfield has the likes of Dida, Maldini, Nesta, Thuram and Cafu behind them then they know they are well covered at the back and can focus on their job of controlling the ball and dictating the pace of the game.
The job of the midfield is to add balance to the team, with that AC Milan side they had a great defence which allowed them to have two creative midfielders and one box to box midfielder and no genuine defensive midfielders. If the defence was poor then a true defensive midfielder would have been needed to add stability to the team.
Look at the Real Madrid Galactico team, with such creative talents as Ronaldo(Brazilian), Raul, Zidane and Figo it was imperative that they had a great defensive midfielder to add balance to the selection and cover their sometimes suspect defence. Makelele was that man, and when they sold him the balance of the teams was thrown completely out of whack and they suffered for it.
So now we need to look at our own team to see what it is we are missing and then we will be able to see what kind of midfielder(s) we need.
Our best performances have come when we have had Carrick fit and playing, this is not a coincidence. If you look at how our team has set up in recent months it becomes clear that even against the teams who are very good in possession such as Arsenal we have stifled the life out of them. LvG has seen a defensive weakness and solved it by not giving the opposition the ball to enable them to concern our defence. We have the highest possession stats in the league, now possession alone doesn't win you games, but it makes it hard for your opponents to score against you and it gives you a certain element of control over the game to create the chances you need to win the game yourself.
If you look at a seasonal heat map for our team you will notice we have spent the majority of the season camped out between the half way line the the oppositions penalty box. We have held possession high against our opposition which has left little space in front of their back four meaning the player with the most time and space on the ball is our deepest midfielder, which means he is the one who will instigate most of our attacks. Thus why when he is missing we seem toothless and struggle to score.
So the question is how are we going to play next season, are we going to continue with this 433/4141 high pressing possession based team? I would assume we are, it took most of the season to get to it and our best play has come when playing it. The issues we have had with it this season is we lack movement in the front line to drag opposition players out of position and make space for our more advanced midfielders and we have no alternative to Carrick to come in and replace him when he isn't able to play.
So what do we need to continue to play this way and to improve? Well first off we need a striker who will make runs and drag opposition out of place. Without that we will struggle to get goals against teams who sit deep and in numbers. Second we need a genuine replacement for Michael Carrick, a true Regista. We also need to sort out our defence, we need a ball playing centre back to take some of the pressure off of our deepest midfielder and to limit opposition from just man making our deepest midfielder and therefore cut off our supply to the front men, this player also needs to be able to organise our defence and keep everyone in line. These are the three primary positions we need to sign the right players for. We also need a better right back who can defend against the best wide players, and another more physical box to box midfielder to add another dimension to our team and to give us a more balanced midfield. At the moment Ander Herrera is our only box to box midfielder but he is more a creator than a destroyer, we need more destructive box to box midfielder to balance out our options.
So a true Regista to replace Carrick long term and to take some of the pressure off short term.
A ball playing CB to help with controlling the tempo of the game and to play our from the back.
A striker with great energy and movement to drag defenders out of position.
A right back who can defend against the best.
A dynamic and physical box to box midfielder to add bite and balance to our selection.
As for who it might be in each position I'll leave that speculation down to you guys.
21 May 2015 13:04:48
Totally agree.
Striker - Kane
CB (ball playing) - Hummels
Regista - Schneiderlin (I have come around to this)
RB - Zabaleta
BBM - Vidal
I also think we need a better 2nd CB, Varane or Chiellini. RW - Ox
{Ed002's Note - Orange Sunshine kicking in?}
21 May 2015 13:07:03
As always Shappy,quality, you are bang on with all points.
As to who will come in. Well in an ideal world, for me it would be coleman, hummels, Kroos, vidal and Lewandowski/benzema, they both have the ability to do everything, quality centre forwards.
21 May 2015 13:12:55
our tactics are easy to defend against .
the top 3 teams will attack and leave space the rest will come defend and and take a draw .
infact the top 3 away from home will play for a draw.
the tactics are flawed for the epl imo.
infact they are flawed for the first division it took us 2 games to break down yeovil.
there is no room for a striker to drag players about , by the time the ball gets to them there are 8 men defending the box, defenders just pass the striker on.
our strikers are there to drop of link play and keep possession which is why rvp falcao rooney have all been dropping deep , why fellaini has been giving a go up top and why chica and welbeck who would run the lines have been sold.
21 May 2015 13:21:05
I can see Bale playing left of a three man midfield if he comes in.
21 May 2015 13:48:14
Shappy, thanks for doing that. As ever very infomative for those of us less in the know!
For me it would be:
Striker -
CB (ball playing) - Otemandi, however I think that Smalling is the prefered partner who also plays right side.
Regista - Schweinsteiger as a short term to share the load
RB - Coleman
BBM - Vidal
21 May 2015 13:54:49
I can't agree with u more Shappy!!!
My speculation
Striker - Vietto
CB (ball playing) - Hummels
Regista - Gundogan/Schneiderlin
RB - If we can't get Coleman i would settle for Sebastien Corchia (I heard Mayke is being called the next Cafu)
BBM - Vidal
21 May 2015 14:12:48
Jred, that is where imo you are wrong. Tactics aren't flawed, players are flawed, managers are flawed but tactics aren't flawed. A manager could fail to see something so his tactics haven't been set up to counter it, or maybe a manager changes his tactics to give an opponent a different problem. Sometimes players are unwilling or unable to follow out the managers instructions thus his tactics would have worked if applied properly.
There is nothing wrong with the tactic of high line possession, it works in many leagues all over the world so I don't buy into your idea that it won't work in England because managers such as Pulis or Allerdyce are too clever and out smart it by defending well and in numbers.
Our problem is we lack the pace and movement in the front line, along with taking too long in transition. Maybe the manager has told the players not to give the ball away because of our poor defence. Over the course of the season our defence looked more solid, where intact it was just tested less. With a weak defence filled with injury plagued players who lacked experience it only makes sense to protect them as much as possible. And with no true DM to act as a shield the only way to protect them is to not let the opposition have the ball to attack them with.
We have been playing with a front three that consists of Mata, Young and one of Rooney, RvP or Falcao.
Mata is a very clever player but isn't a threat with his movement or pace which is almost non existent. He is the player who sits out side the box and ghosts in in the second phase of attack and not the first. Young is good but he doesn't run in behind players rather goes to then checks back onto his stronger foot. Both RvP and Rooney are not front line strikers, they have never been the player to run in behind, but rather drop deeper. Falcao used to be the player who would run in behind and drag players about but he is a shadow of his former self.
In this kind of set up you need a player to quickly run in behind out wide, the striker then runs toward the back post and the most advanced midfielder toward the front post in the space made by the strikers movement. The other winger sits deep ready to become involved in the second phase if there is one.
It is that quick instinctive movement we are missing to be able to pull off this kind of tactic against teams that sit deep.
We need pace and movement in that front line. Depay will improve it, If we can get Di Maria back to top form he will too. We also need a striker who will make those runs with pace and clever movement.
21 May 2015 14:17:15
Top post Shappy ! I sometimes really think that you should be working as a pundit :)
For Striker, I don't think we need to buy one as Hernandez can be the striker we want . He is excellent on dragging defenders out of their position and creating space behind them . He may not be everyone's choice but with us needing more defenders and midfielders, we can do without a new striker this season
21 May 2015 14:57:42
shappy
i have to disagree and the proof is in the season .
slow build up will not work in the EPl
jesus it didn't work against yeovil or cambridge
lvg set munich up the same way this isn't a 1 off.
he had the big lump gomez up top .
welbeck could run in behind he was sold .
chica could run in behind he was sold .
there is a reason di maria is struggling infact there are a number but one is running with the ball taking players on doesn't suit this style .
he will be great on the counter attack .
i don't like the style but it is lvgs style.
barcelona use to play a similar way and it worked as long as messi played.
take him out and it wasnt the same which is why they have changed
all you are doing is suggesting how you would like the team to play
where do you think rooney will play next season ?
21 May 2015 15:06:25
shaps
have a look at barcelona a few year back .
70/80% possession tika taka football the other team couldn't get the ball.
great players everywhere great movement but it didn't work with out messi .
21 May 2015 15:40:09
Jred, That Barcelona side was not set up by LvG it was set up by Pep Guardiola. A man who many yourself included I think want to manage our club. Pep tried to take LvG's ideas and evolve them and take them to the next level. And like you said it worked when they had a player of Messi's brilliance on the pitch.
To play LvG's ideas you need to build from somewhere, he breaks down footballers and rebuilds them playing how he wants them to. At the start just like when you learned to walk it was slow and steady, but once it became natural you were able to run and move much quicker. The Build up is slow at the moment because the players are in the infancy of the process, they are still finding their feet, they are thinking then acting rather than the act being instinctive. The same happened at Bayern you are right, but he fell out with some very strong characters who like to keep control over the team in a manner LvG found intrusive. So he fell foul of them and was kicked out before his team could fully get to grips with the ideas.
As for where will Rooney play for us next year? I suspect he'll play some games as a striker, some as a No.10, some on the wing and some deeper in midfield the much the same as he has nearly every season he has had at our club. Rooney is a jack of all trades but the master of none. He is a quality player, but he had so much more potential. He could have become the best player in the world as a striker if he had the right discipline and ability to learn and progress.
Sir Alex Ferguson couldn't find a settled position for him, nor could David Moyes, nor any of the England managers, so I doubt LvG will.
I think he is best playing a free role behind the striker. He isn't technically good enough to play as a true No.10, he isn't disciplined enough to play as a striker, his touch and passing consistency isn't good enough for midfield. And his pace isn't good enough to play wide anymore.
21 May 2015 16:03:48
shaps.
pep got the best out of what he had at barcelona he changed his style at munich to an extent the jury is still out .
the style of football was the same at munich and it never worked . in his second season they where 4th.
blind done a good right up a while ago about the style , keep the ball don't force a pass tire the other team out.
im not a big fan of blind but i think there is a reason lvg bought him.
i think rooney will play up top next year .
lvg has said he is looking for another cm so i don't think the fast play or striker is going to happen
i don't think its how lvg plays or has played in the past .
i would expect us to buy a ball playing cb as its very important to the current system .
i don't disagree with how you would set the team up , i just don't see lvg doing it