04 Feb 2015 06:17:10
In all seriousness when you put this season into context come May and if Van Gaal doesn't reach the CL this season should he suffer the same fate as Moyes?
04 Feb 2015 08:02:47
Yes, but we already have more points than moyes had after an extra 3 games, we will hopefully have a good cup run and I feel we are in line for a top 4 finish. Why the negativity?
No negativity GDS. I am just interested to see if folk think he should suffer the same fate as Moyes if he misses out on the CL or if he should be given another season to have a go. Personally I would never advocate the sacking of a manager but it would be hypocritical and a major insult to Moyes if LVG didn't go should that be the case.
IMO, I think if we can sustain form up until the end of March we will get top 4. Arsenal worry me but I think the Saints will fall away.
Can we just get behind the manager and team and see where we are at the end of season.
We can always bring moyes back if you didn't get enough last year!! Then at least we can have a fight for relegation on our hands!!
04 Feb 2015 09:14:12
I think he probably would be let go if we didn't make the Champions League, but not sure it would be a major insult to Moyes, LVG has done quite a lot of good behind the scenes even if the performances on the pitch are not quite matching up to that at the moment.
Most people last season were frustrated by the players who were not good enough for United who were playing regularly or given contracts, Cleverley, Anderson, Fletcher, Evra, Ferdinand, Kagawa, Welbeck, Hernandez. Some of these players people rated I am sure, but they were players that were underperforming and not good enough. LVG has trusted in youth when injuries have occurred and some of the younger players appear to be settling in well, with McNair and Wilson both playing well when given chance.
I think the whole Moyes v LVG debate is pointless, Moyes was a disaster and a manager totally out of his depth, LVG is a different prospect entirely, his negative points are totally different to that of Moyes, and I think most people can see we are heading somewhere much more positive than where we were heading under Moyes.
I agree with you that Arsenal are the team we need to worry about, I think Spurs as well if they get a result this weekend could really challenge. I have said all season that I feel Southampton have a great first 11, but that will only get them so far and I feel they will drop to 6th or 7th by April, a fantastic achievement for a team expected to be battling relegation.
Nomidfield - Chill dude I'm just asking a question!
GDS - I agree with you on some points but I think it's a debate worth having. You mentioned a list of players who underperformed last season but you could say players such as Valencia, Rooney, Falcao, Van Persie, Mata and the £57millon maverick Di Maria have failed so far to perform this season.
You mention that youth has been given a chance which I agree is great but Moyes introduced our greatest prospect Januzaj last season who set the theatre alight yet he has been a shadow of himself under LVG. He has even today criticised the gaffers tactics claiming the forward players can't play their game because they are asked to be both full backs and wingers.
Also you say good things are happening behind the scenes but from both the media and even mentioned by ED001 on here that is not the case. The hierarchy are apparently unconvinced by LVG and some have already supposedly highlighted possible successors.
I have to say there are some key similarities.
Why talk about May in February? don't we have enough on our plates already?
Mbd - Do you think the decision to let Moyes go was ultimately made in May? Do you think no one plans ahead in this multi-billion pound industry?
Are we heading in the right direction due to lvg or dispite him.
Is the improvement down to lvg or the 150mil + we have spent on players.
I think we have a far better squad this year than last .
I agree we should judge lvg at the end of the season but i don't agree with the " if we finish top 4 lvg has done well"
We could play awful football from now on but as long as the teams around us play crap to we could get top 4.
On the other hand we could play great football finish 5 and lose out to arsenal and spurs who have played even better.
But if we get 5th playing good football showing improvement and starting to get the best out of the squad, i would take that over 4th and the average performances i have seen so far
Nomid, as you well know you were openly critical of Moyes, as was I, for the whole of last season. So the idea that we just get behind the manager regardless of his performance rings a bit hollow.
I think van Gaal, like Moyes, should be given a season to demonstrate his aptitude for the job. At the moment I have major concerns about the direction van Gaal is taking the club. Performances have improved, somewhat, over last season. But we have also spent a huge amount of money in the summer, and performances have yet to reflect this investment.
The main issue I have is that van Gaal seems to be making poor decisions on a regular basis: sticking Rooney in midfield, Di Maria up front, playing 5 at the back against weak teams and, most criminally, dropping our most dynamic midfielder because of a personal gripe. If Moyes had played Fellaini up front and Rooney in midfield against a decent team, let alone a team from a low division, he would have been laughed off this board. Van Gaal does it and he's technically astute. The team should not have to adjust its tactics to break down a league two side. The manager should be confident enough in his attacking players' abilities that he doesn't need to lump it into the big lad.
Philosophy seems to be shorthand for whatever van Gaal feels like doing on any given day. I have seen very limited consistency in style or approach over the course the season, and I am starting to wonder if van Gaal has any master plan other than picking the players who follow his rules to the letter. Questions have to be asked about why our best players are not being used in their best positions, and we have to ask if van Gaal is allowing petty personal issues with specific players to stand in the way of putting our best team on the pitch.
I won't repeat all my previous criticisms, (they still stand).
I did think we moved the ball a lot better yesterday and with confidence, there was one fantastic passage of intricate passing which is what we should be seeing a lot more of. I didn't mind the Fellaini tactical decision either, very clever from the gaffer.
It was Cambridge, but we need to continue this confidence and build on the fluidity which was good. If LVG has us playing better I have no problem with him and agree with Jred. We shouldn't look at other teams performances to judge our own managers performance - 3rd place is not a fair reflection of how we have played in a typical PL season.
So far LVG has been awful in my eyes. Until Rooney is moved upfront or to the bench we will not see a much better Man Utd, because too much goes through him and he isn't effective enough in that midfield role - he either gets in peoples way or slows the game down too much.
The manager needs to realise this and be brave. I think he doesn't deserve to keep his job on account of what he has done since July, but I hope the next 3 months he repairs the situation and throws a bit more caution to the wind.
I am sure somebody has told him this as I have noticed a change in mannerism and approach to games since Leicester.
So we should guess what their (mulit billion pound industry's) future plans are in case this happens. It's all conjecture but i don't see it happening. We will qualify for the CL. Don't forget Moyes failed to qualify for Europa even.
Agree with Danny pughnited! After the summer we had with signings etc, fourth place should be a certainty. But the formations, team sheets etc are making me worried that we will not even get fourth place. I agree that if it was moyes doing the same things as LVG more people would be on his back, but because he is a bigger name, we are expected to give him more time. Really can't understand why a top manager would play our (nearly) all time top goal scorer in CM and our best midfielder as ST, when he has probably never played there before. Does not fill me with confidence!
04 Feb 2015 12:38:14
Wiganred,
If you were at work and a 18 year old straight out of college was given the job as your boss and made a few questionable decisions you would lose faith in him. If a guy got the job with 20 years experience who had done the same job successfully at other companies and made similar questionable decisions you would be more willing to accept it (for a little longer at least)
Sorry for that analogy but it is my best way of explaining why people are willing to give LVG more slack than Moyes, it is only natural and what would happen in any walk of life.
What I was getting at in my previous post was similar to what jred said, the quality of player we have now is above what we had last year, we have replaced average with supposedly world class and it is about time them players stepped up. We can get away with playing similarly to last year as the quality of player is better and that will ultimately shine through, but there are still major improvements to make.
The players at the club are improving and we are getting rid of so called 'dead wood' (although I hate that phrase being used for current players) but whether that is down to LVG or despite LVG is a matter of opinion and we may never know that answer.
I disagree with jred in that 5th would be a good season if we play good football, champions league is a necessity this year, and I doubt with good football and finishing 5th anybody will be coming on here saying they are happy, whereas with 4th place they will be. An alternate way of looking at it is that we are 3rd now and not playing good football, so if we do play better football it is more than likely we will finish in the top 3/4 anyway.
If we play good football and finish 5th I would be much happier than playing the atrocious football I have witnessed this season and finish 3rd.
I watch Man Utd for the enjoyment - not to brag!
04 Feb 2015 13:36:40
Beast,
I assure you right now that if we play good football and finish 5th you will not be on here saying how much you enjoyed it, it is a results business, we need to be in the champions league next season, it is a necessity, whether that means you enjoy it or you don't. Quite frankly I enjoy winning, however that may be, if it's with style then so be it.
Its a results business for the owners and the sharks. Of course it is nice to win everything, but I only apply that to things I actually have control of.
I am relentless if I can dictate matters and have responsibility, I haven't met anyone more competitive in that case. However Man Utd decision making is nothing to do with us, so I prefer us to play great free flowing football and take pleasure from our performances. I haven't had too much satisfaction for 3-4 years from watching us, remarkably the pre-game excitement is still there for me though, more hope than expectation at the minute though.
I promise if we start playing well and others somehow play better then I will not be on LVG's back and will be satisfied wherever we finish. With better performances will come better results in the long run, so the two go hand in hand in any case.
I still don't understand how people compare the current manager to the last. The current manager is worlds apart. Just look at our record this season. What is it? one defeat in 15? We had lost 8 games this time last season and were the butt of all jokes. This season, we are actually a decent side who are very hard to beat. We have a manager who is doing things his way, which will always pi.s off the some of the so called purists, who fail to understand that the so called good old days, or the United way of playing football - the fergie way - are gone. We have a new manager with a different take on the game. I personally like the manager's way of playing because I believe that it will ultimately bring the club great success; and the style of play - the entertainment factor - will improve as the team become more accustomed to the managers style of play.
Sam it's about judging every manager on the merits of what they are doing and, frankly, under van Gaal we are not playing like a team that spent £150m during the summer. People aren't complaining that we aren't playing "the Fergie way". Because the Fergie way was far from exhilarating after Ronaldo was sold. What Fergie could do, however, was get the most out of the players he had at his disposal. Van Gaal simply hasn't been doing that this year.
GDS,
That goes both ways though, I feel he should be doing better with all his experience. I know we're third, but in all honesty if we continue to play like we are I think we will slide down the table. The next few weeks will tell us a lot. If we do better against the top six teams it would be a big improvement on last year.