29 May 2024 19:07:12
Just to end the season twas a bad one, now there's been a lot of the blame out on eth, but I look at the players and they were more than bad. Between injuries and players not trying and players not wanting to play that's hard to manage. a bunch of spoilt egos.
Now the fa cup was our saving grace . played well, won it, and I see the discussion had we a better season than arsenal and imo we had. We won probably the most famous cup of them all. I always loved the fa cup. We knocked arsenal out of community cup not that that's any great achievement knocked Chelsea in to the Mickey mouse cup not that Europa is much better.
Arsenal finished second no cups or medals for that, So in the back of that get rid of a few players get in a few new ones and give eth another crack of the whip one more year to see how he gets in.
29 May 2024 22:06:40
Exactly what o was saying yesterday Leahy. Give me a trophy and a lower league position all day. My thought is that if you don’t go on to win the CL, you’re better off with the domestic cup in your pocket.
Plenty of counter arguments and all valid, but as fans we want to see the team lift trophies and everything else is noise.
29 May 2024 22:52:14
The big teams enter 4 comps every year to win any of them is a good achievement.
However winning a cup amd getting relegated is not a good season for example.
Winning a cup and not qualifying for the best tournament is not a good season for the big clubs imo.
Last Saturday was brilliant for every single fan every player and the owners and the coaching team eth in particular but the feeling from last weekend was gone on Monday for real winners and it will be a full season of being out of the biggest comp in club football and not being in it has severe consequences financially and hurts the business and the brand at a time we need that income.
Winning cups, any of the 4 is important and as I said above a good achievement but losing out and not being qualified for the biggest comp of all is a very bitter pill to swallow. If you ask me honestly as a fan if over 5 seasons would I rather win 3 fa cups and 2 carabo cups OR win 2 cl and 2 cl semi finals and 1 cl 1/ 4 final, I would choose the cl.
I suggest every single player would rather the cl I think every single club owner would prefer it I think that every single coach would prefer it. I think a majority of united fans would prefer it too.
30 May 2024 00:33:26
Come on tumble, winning 2 UCLs, 2 semis and a 1/ 4! How many clubs have put that run together in the space of 5 years?
Maybe only real madrid?
Bit of a random comparison. More likely for british clubs we get a final, a semi, through the group twice and 1 failed to get through group. And that would be a very good performance.
I do agree top 4 is very important, but so too is winning the FA cup, and many players and coaches don't ever get there.
Looks like we will be bringing through some youth next season and spending less on the "big" players. Bring it on I say. I'd love to get behind a younger team that is growing together.
30 May 2024 02:30:54
It's not just that the FA Cup means very little compared to a second place with one or two points gap to winning it. it's also how the team plays for fs sake! Who in their right minds doesn't want United to play like Arsenal did all season and compete as a big team, play in the CL every year . you can't be serious that FA cup winning means more!
History books may not credit second place finishes but that doesn't mean it doesn't record a negative goal difference!
30 May 2024 04:49:37
Another one celebrating second place ahead of a trophy. Second means nothing. Nearly winning it means nothing, second is the first loser.
30 May 2024 06:47:28
There is no argument
Trophy end of.
30 May 2024 06:56:47
Deadly serious FGIS. It’s just an opinion don’t get so angry about it.
Compare the two:
Win the FA Cup OR have a run to the CL quarter finals and get knocked out.
For me I’m taking the FA Cup win. As a fan I want those memories. As a player I don’t know, I think I’d like to look in my medals draw when I retire. I reckon Alan Shearer is in a good position to comment.
30 May 2024 06:57:35
Agree Dodgy. If you’re not first you’re last. Nobody should be celebrating finishing in 2nd place.
30 May 2024 08:00:25
Ask any player or coach if they would want to win 2 cl or five domestic cups in a 5 year period most would choose the 2 cl imo.
30 May 2024 09:19:30
We’ll have the answer to this question, this time next year. If Arsenal have won the champions league, they had a better season this year. If they get knocked out of the group stages or quarter finals, they’ll have nothing to show for their performance this season but United will still have a cup in the cabinet.
This debate really is about financial reward for the immediate future and sadly, CL is financially better for teams than winning an FA Cup. But when these players retire and they’re asked to put their medals on the table, you should want something to show for it.
Who had a better career? Shearer or Solskjaer?! Depends on what sort of character you are I guess.
30 May 2024 09:35:07
Did Raymond van der going have a better career than shearer?
Very much depends on how you measure things.
30 May 2024 10:04:55
There are 2 perspectives on this argument. That of the owners and that of the fans.
For the owners, a top 4 place is more financially rewarding. Clubs receive around £13.2 million just for qualifying for the group stage. Followed by £2.8m for each win in the group and £800k for a draw. You obviously then have the attraction of better sponsorship opportunities and television rights. The FA cup trophy is only worth approximately £4m, with rewards at each earlier stage. But this is still dwarfed by the CL potential. Thankfully, Europa League qualification has mitigated some of lost revenue for not qualifying for the CL. Whether its enough to save EtH job is another question.
Manchester United is ran as a business, and managers have taken the fall for that. I don't think Ineos and SJR will change that. They aren't invested in the club for love of football, they want to make profit.
As a fan, am I going to celebrate and remember a FA Cup win over a top 4 finish? Absolutely, people only celebrate a Top 4 finish when there is nothing left domestically to play for.
30 May 2024 10:31:20
Tw back sprinkling a bit of realism. Fa Cup we beat 2 pl teams to win. A league 2 side and a league 1 side and we are saying we had a better season than Arsenal who beat the 2 pl sides we did and did the double over us.
Arsenal were miles better than us this season, because they went for the big trophy they ended up with nothing whilst we were and are merely a cup side nowadays never coming close in the most important competition. Winning the 4th best trophy last season and the 3rd best this season, the fan base is dead thinking this is success for this club.
30 May 2024 10:32:33
Going going gone!
30 May 2024 10:32:59
Gouw#.
30 May 2024 10:55:42
@ kurtis. Manchester United is run as a business because it is a business. What do you think it should be run as?
Ron atkinson stuff but at least winning the fa cup back then was the 2nd best trophy available as we were out if Europe due to the ban.
Winning anything is good but we were relegated from the champions league.
We can't enter it because we were not good enough.
This manager has us not good enough to qualify for the top competition.
Next week be saying Leicester had a better session than arsenal because they won their league.
Under eth united are not good enough to qualify for the biggest club comp in world football.
Imo an fa cup win good and enjoyable as it was is no compensation for not being allowed to compete in the best comp next year.
30 May 2024 10:57:23
People want top 4 because it means Europe. More funds and attracts better players.
Not going to attract players by telling them “come to us, we may win an FA Cup”.
Am I happy we won the cup? Hell yeah! But from a team building perspective I would have preferred top 4 as well.
30 May 2024 11:21:32
We played in the UCL this season, who thinks our performances in that competition would have attracted many top players to sit up and think about playing for United?
UCL football has two benefits, firstly and most importantly in terms of running a football club is the financial benefits from playing in it. The second benefit is the chance to win it and create history and a legacy.
Where we are right now we have zero chance of winning the competition, so the only real benefit for us is the financial boost it would give our accounts. That shouldn't be underplayed or looked down on. It's a reality of professional football. The club needs to make money if it is to invest in better players and infrastructure.
However, from a fans perspective would I rather win the FA cup or finish 4th? I'd take the cup every time.
I don't banter fans of other clubs with how many times we've finished 4th, I banter them with what we have won.
From a fans perspective football is about the glory, watching your team succeed and win. It is celebrating the titles and cups that we remember and it is those memories that we pass down to our children. I was there when we won the cup, or lifted the league title. Not I was there when we drew our final game to secure 4th place.
Spend a minute googling what the club has won and you'll find out almost instantly. Then see how long you need to spend trying to work out how many times the club have finished in the top four. That tells you everything about the importance of winning silverware over a top four finish.
While I can see the benefits of a top four finish over an FA cup win, as a fan I'll choose silverware every time.
Nothing changes the mood and feeling around the club as much as lifting silverware.
Just look at the fan polls, before Saturday it was around 70/ 30 in favour of replacing EtH, now some polls are as high as 90/ 10 to keep him as manager.
Winning is the most important thing in building momentum as a club. It brings the players together and strengthens the bonds within the team.
Do you think our players would have celebrated finishing 4th the same way as they celebrated winning the FA cup? Of course not. That tells you how the players feel about winning cups and titles.
30 May 2024 11:31:15
There’s a real opportunity here to reset the club in my opinion.
Move away from daft big money signings, invest properly in youth, and build a new younger team tnat Erik has started, with a coach that is great with young players. Whether that’s ETH or Poch I don’t mind.
30 May 2024 11:40:52
Shappy did Leicester have zero chance of winning the league the year they won it?
Do Southampton have zero chance of winning the epl next season?
Did 8th place injured have zero chance of beating the best club side in Europe to win an fa cup?
If your not in it you can't win it.
We are not even allowed enter because we failed to qualify.
At the begining of last season you said you would not sign for united because they don't have a chance of winning the top comps.
So you'd be happy to support united but not stiffness for them. They were your words.
30 May 2024 12:43:14
Seems our acceptance of the change to a cup team is complete in some supporters eyes. A cup win is great to have, enjoyable, especially in the circumstances. However, what are our aims, what is good enough? In 1985 I was delirious behind the goal Whiteside scored in, great moment, but it just extended the pain, the pain of not competing at the top. Players want to test themselves against the best and that isn’t the FA cup. Yes it is great and winning is why players play, what is important, but top 4 is a minimum requirement and we must be challengers for the league, must offer serious challenge in the Champions League or it fades back to the eighties when the FA Cup was only thing we could challenge for. We are now a mid eighties cup team without Robson.
Nice day out but nowhere near acceptable.
30 May 2024 13:10:51
Spot on redman.
Ole it seems not only destroyed the players in terms of accepting mediocrity now it seems some fans too.
Shappy debated long and hard last year as to why he would not sign for united nor would he advise any child or relation of his to sign for united because they can't compete for the top prizes and their career is short.
Today he argued the opposite but we've seen that a hundred times from shappy to try and suit his narrative of the day.
Wazza wanted our most successful manager since fergie sacked as did angel but they now are arguing for keeping eth its like living in a parallel universe reading some of the stuff.
We won a cup which is great but it's not good enough.
Wazza would rather win 5 domestic trophies over a 5 year period than win 2 cl over same period. Maybe you get more points in fantasy football for the fa cup?♂️.
30 May 2024 13:13:25
They are back lol. We had a poor year in the league depending on what you want to believe were the reasons for it and salvaged it with fantastic FA cup trophy beating the best team in Europe imo and Guardiola's first ever loss in a domestic final. Get on with it and move on. its history done and dusted.
I would rather this and that is revisionist stuff and far from reality. it is what it is.
Anyone remember who finished second in the league 5 years ago. I don't and would have to look it up. Football clubs are defined by their trophy rooms and not coming close.
Tiger woods is my fav all time golfer, don't have a clue how many times he finished 2nd in a major but know all his 15 major wins.
30 May 2024 13:33:43
Ken what are you on about, again ?
When did I say I’d rather have 5 domestic cups over 2 CL?
Read the opening couple of posts again, but this time, really slowly.
30 May 2024 13:37:08
Ken it should be ran as a football club. We have a history of prioritizing profit to pay nice dividends rather than reinvesting into the club.
Business growth and profits should align with the development and progression of the football side. Not be ran as a commercial machine.
30 May 2024 13:52:46
Ken, of course you have to be in it to win it. Yet the reality is there is only one winner of every competition and 19-50 odd losers typically depending on the competition (league, group stages and qualifying stages of European competitions, the FA cup has 124 teams compete for it) .
Obviously there are exceptions and there are cases where an unfancied team defy the odds and win the tournament. However, these are rare.
We overcame the odds to beat City in the FA cup after all. But that's a one off game, to have that chance you need to win your way through the entire tournament to get to that final. In an elite competition like the UCL that's very difficult as you will face many sides currently in a better position than yourself, and you have to defy the odds multiple times.
Our FA cup run to the final came from beating Wigan, Newport County, Nottingham Forest, Liverpool and Coventry.
Only one of those sides finished above us in the league, one of them is a Championship side, one a league one side and one a league two side.
Newport County pegged us back to 2-2, Liverpool was a classic with a 4-3 win, while Coventry pegged us back to 3-3 with us winning on penalties. we beat Forest with a 89th minute winner, with only the 2-0 victory over Wigan looking like a routine win against a club further down the football pyramid than ourselves.
That's the luck of the draw, only coming up against one team that is better than us on route to the final. While you can only beat the side in front of you.
In the final we played really well, a great performance, without doubt our best performance all season, and it secured the cup.
Winning cups can cover up a multitude of sins, it can also be a springboard onto bigger and better things. At the very least it gives the club some breathing space, sating the appetite from fans for a while as the club regroups and starts to rebuild.
I also never said I wouldn't sign for the club, I said that if I was an agent I'd advise against it to a client. I stand by that statement. Forget the name of the club, would you in good faith recommend to a young player who you represent to sign for a club that hasn't competed at the top for a decade and has suffered a lot of turmoil with regular changes of direction and manager, along with poor record of developing and improving players over that time?
Absolutely not. I probably would recommend signing for that club to an older player who is in decline if that was the biggest offer on the table. Although I'd still be clear with them about what they were signing up for.
Maybe that opinion is starting to shift now with INEOS coming in and the structure and running of the club is changing. Although I'd still ideally wait until next summer to see how those changes start to pan out. There is a promise of change right now, but no measurable evidence yet.
{Ed025's Note - to be honest Shappy an agent will advise his players to sign for a club which pays the most money mate...end of story, you would have to be very naive if you think he would do it for the benefit of the player..
30 May 2024 14:01:03
Red Man, no one is saying we should accept not finishing in the top four and competing in the UCL.
Just that winning trophies is ultimately what it is all about.
Do you tell stories to your kids and grandkids of United merely playing in the UCL, or do you tell them stories about winning cups and lifting trophies?
When you're lying on your deathbed (hopefully in many, many years time) if any thoughts of the club come to mind I expect it'll be remembering winning the treble, or when you witnessed the club win a trophy, not that season we played half a dozen UCL games before being knocked out.
Football is all about those joyous moments, those great and memorable moments, with winning silverware right at the top of those.
I'd rather win a cup every year than finish 4th and win naff all. That's my personal take. I suspect that most United fans would have the same opinion, if not now, they would after 10 years of 4th placed finishes and no cup/ title wins.
30 May 2024 14:23:41
Wazza this is what you wrote
'My thought is that if you don’t go on to win the CL, you’re better off with the domestic cup in your pocket'
30 May 2024 14:42:52
Just to confirm Ken, fans who are happy to have won a domestic cup are now happy to accept mediocrity but qualifying for CL every year but not winning cups isn’t mediocrity?
30 May 2024 15:12:17
This thread reminds me of them instagram vs reality posts.
30 May 2024 15:48:49
Ports, I think it much simpler than that. It's nothing to do with mediocrity or whose settling for it.
Since the FA cup win there has been far more support for giving EtH another season. While for those who have shouted loudest for his removal the obvious stick to beat him with is that we didn't qualify for the UCL. So that's now the rally cry for the call to arms and for the removal of his head.
It's nothing more than a slight whimper of fear that all the positivity around the manager since the FA cup win might influence whether he keeps his job. Would the new owners really want to announce their arrival by making an unpopular decision to sack the manager after a great FA cup win? Those that want him sacked and have felt confident that he would be suddenly have a glimmer of doubt, a sinking realisation that they might have to accept him as manager next season. God forbid he stays, does well, gets a new contract and eventually wins a title or UCL down the line. The embarrassment of getting it so wrong would be overwhelming for them.
So driven by that fear they feel the need to bang the drum to try and turn the tide back against the manager.
30 May 2024 17:22:27
It shouldn’t be either/ or. We should be top 4 every season as a matter of course with winning it and a trophy as the goal.
30 May 2024 17:44:21
Exactly Mr dingle. Anything less is a poor season imo.
30 May 2024 17:44:28
Post of the day Shappy, very well summed up ?.
30 May 2024 17:47:29
I think top 4th and no cup would be mediocrity ports. But domestic cup and 8th won't cut it.
30 May 2024 19:17:57
Qualifying for a competition we have zero chance of winning or getting our hands on arguably the most prestigious cup competition on the planet? I dunno how good a lot of your weekends were, but I can promise you that finishing 4th would not have given me the weekend I've just had . It's all about trophies . That's it ?♂️.
30 May 2024 20:00:26
Wazza going around handing out prizes again ? have a break. I’m not sure again why you think your opinion is the right way to go around crowing posts of the day.
Our season was shambolic with a cherry on top that is all.
Mick Phelan on talksport saying the data doesn’t lie the manager has been terrible as have the results. He said eth doesn’t deserve another season based on that.
30 May 2024 21:53:22
Deano I don't need to rely on a football team doing anything to have a great weekend. I'd say all my weekends are great united winning or losing any game would not affect any weekend one bit.
It's a game and really win or lose a few hours after the game its done for me. The only interest I have is in the next game. I understand some like talking about it for weeks each to their own.
30 May 2024 22:20:35
Yes Gnev, and while I’m feeling generous, I’ve got a bow for your little violin too.
Abysmal with a cherry on top is a good way to sum up our season. Abysmal effort from some players, abysmal attitudes, abysmal injuries. And a very large FA Cup sized cherry on top.
30 May 2024 23:18:04
Well that's where we are different Ken, I love this club and every result, every game lives with me a lot longer than 3 to 4 hrs . No problem tho, each to their own ?.
31 May 2024 13:38:07
Absolutely deano. It's like a religion for some.
Thankfully I don't depend on a bunch of strangers to determine my mood or form. It's just a game I can't affect the results so I just watch to enjoy it and when it's over I go out or play golf or entertain at home and don't give it a second thought. The last thing I'd be doing is teasing or bantering with my pals that support other teams I gave that up when leaving primary school.
One of my pet hates is noisy winners. The only thing worse than a bad loser is a bad and mouthy winner imo.
Winning is great but I'd be more invested in the next game than looking back at the last one no matter what we won.
It takes all sorts and we are all different.
31 May 2024 17:15:46
It is pretty simple, in 5 years time (or 10-15, whatever), we will look back at the trophies won and see that we won a trophy.
At the moment, it is obviously not good enough, but it may look different even one year from now. If Arsenal doesn't win the CL next season, obviously FA trophy counts more than finishing 2nd.
We should, ofcourse, aim to qualify for the CL, but it is not a given, there are a lot of teams wanting that spot. Even if the club was in a better place, it still isn't a given that we would finish top 4 (look at Liverpool 2 seasons ago) . Also, just qualifying isn't enough, we have to compete and be good enough to win it, and we are far away from it. It could benefit us to miss it.