22 Mar 2024 21:26:31
A lot of talk about Southgate in various quarters recently, taking aside his eligibility and ability to be United manager. I just don't see how it would work logistically. This is a huge summer for the club, new owners (kind of) and new structure being put in place, new Dof etc and obviously numerous changes required in the playing squad.
If we did decide on Southgate, he wouldn't be available until mid / end of July at the earliest, which throws our preseason off and leaves us behind the 8 ball again. I don't think he's the right man for the job anyways, but his availability during this crucial summer must surely play into the thinking also.
22 Mar 2024 22:41:48
The worst thing we can do would be to hire Southgate as manager
He’s done nothing at club level
And underachieved at international level
The runs we have had go in the past 3 tournaments and when we have come across a half decent team we have lost
People bang on about ten hag and his tactics, Jesus Southgate’s tactics are worse
He doesn’t beat top 10 ranked teams.
Got to stay clear of Southgate imo if we sack ten hag big big mistake from ineos.
23 Mar 2024 07:35:35
Fully agree Bolger.
Southgate’s tactics (or lack thereof) are why England lost to Italy and Croatia. The worse thing England can do against a top international side is score early. It then becomes 10 men behind the ball and trying to hold on for 80 minutes.
I’ve said on here before, I think it’s a travesty England have him as manager given the amount of talent and depth in the squad, especially in midfield and forward positions.
I’ll happily eat my words come July if things change, but listening to Darren Bent (who claims he’s closely connected to the England setup) talking about how Southgate will never not have two holding midfielders, I’m not sure it will happen.
{Ed077's Note - The thing with England under Southgate is the despite the finishes in the tournaments, England haven't beaten any team when they weren't going in as clear favorite. Everytime they were expected to be tested and maybe not come out victorious, they've gone lost that match.}
23 Mar 2024 09:40:06
Ed077, nail on head. Anytime they come up against a higher ranked team, they fail.
With the talent at their disposal, it's criminal.
Imagine thinking that Southgate could do a job at United, deary me.
{Ed077's Note - England have had the "luck of the draw" and "good fortunes with regards to injury" and still haven failed to exceed any expectations.}
23 Mar 2024 13:27:54
I think Southgate has been the right man, in the right place, at the right time for England.
He has his limitations, everyone does. We won't find a manager without some limitations. The trick is to make sure the management team makes up for those limitations.
SAF was one of the best managers ever. Yet for all his ability to get the most out of players, to keep the dressing room hungry and focused, for his mental tennis and mind games that could derail a title rival, for being able to plan ahead and make sure that there was a ready replacement waiting just at the right time as a player started to drop off. For all of those great skills he was tactically limited. He knew this, and he addressed it by regularly brining in a new assistant manager who had learned and focused on the newest tactics and techniques. Brining someone in with new ideas and letting them have more control than most assistant managers would get at most other clubs meant the team was able to tactically evolve and stay fresh, rather than sticking to the same tired and trusted tactics even when the football landscape has changed. Manager who do that fade from relevance eventually as they become outdated.
Southgate seems to have a similar tactical weakness, and if he had or if he trusted the advice of those in his management team a little more then maybe he'd have won something as England manager already.
He's done a great job of changing the attitude and mentality around the England camp. Players with poor attitudes are given short shift and aren't welcome no matter how talented (Sancho, Greenwood) . He appreciates that it isn't about assembling the best players, but about building the strongest team. He saw the divisions in the England camp as a player, and he knows how they limited a very talented generation of players who probably should have won something. Certainly less or equally talented teams won things during that time.
I think he's been fortunate to be England manager at this time, while many people bemoaned the homegrown quota brought into the the EPL all those years ago we are now seeing the fruits of that policy.
If there was a weakness to the "Golden generation" it was how few options there were to pick beyond the obvious 23 man squad. The drop off in quality from Owen and Rooney to Vassell and Johnson was massive. That was the same issue all over the pitch. There was never a genuine debate about who should and shouldn't be selected. Now though there are players who will not be selected for this summers Euros who would probably be first choice for most other nations.
In defence we have James, Walker, Trippier, TAA, White, Livramento, Stones, Maguire, Konsa, Tomori, Dunk, Guehi, Branthwaite, Colwill, Gomez, Tarkowski, Kilman, Mings, Shaw, Chilwell, Henry, Burn, Mitchell.
There are 23 defenders all of whom have a genuine shout of being selected, 8 maybe 9 will get to go, meaning 14-15 of them will be watching from home. Everyone will have their opinion over which ones should go, but bar maybe LB where Shaw and Chilwell are a level above the other options of Henry, Burn and Mitchell, there can be a genuine debate over which RB's should go, or which CB's.
This quality in depth means we are less reliant on having all our best players fit and in form this summer. This is a direct result of the homegrown quota. I also think they got the balance right. Less players having to be homegrown would reduce the about of options we would now have. While more would impact the quality of the club squads meaning the homegrown players would be training with less quality around them to push them and drive them to improve.
So Southgate has been fortunate to be the guy in charge just as these players have become available. While this quality in depth has allowed him to be more selective and to not call up players whose attitude or demeanour could effect the team.
However, that does not make him a great choice for United. I can see the appeal, a manager who hasn't been used to picking his transfer targets and would therefore maybe be more amenable to a new structure where the manager has less say (less say, not no say) . While his ability to create a harmonious camp is obviously another big plus given the issues our squad has had over the past decade. He has also shown he can handle the pressure of the England job, so should be well placed to handle the pressure at Manchester United.
All that said, tactically he seems very weak and limited. Which doesn't really fit into this idea that INEOS want a coach who'll focus on improving the players, and getting them to play good football. This is also something Southgate hasn't had to do on a consistent basis as England manager where he might have to run 20 coaching sessions a year rather than 5 sessions a week.
This also is a factor in his ability to deal with the pressure of being Manchester United manager, the pressure probably isn't any greater at United than it is for England, but at United it is constant, every day, every week. While with England its for a few weeks of the year during qualifying/ friendlies and for 6 weeks every two years for a tournament.
Finally if there is one thing I'd fault EtH with is he has a lack of personality (or at least it doesn't show in his interactions with the press) . This is something that is also an issue with Southgate. He comes across wet, he seems to lack confidence or fight, he doesn't seem to have much of a sense of humour. He seems like grey suit, I really couldn't tell you anything about his personality despite him being the England manager for 8 years. I'm sure he is a nice guy, but he hasn't shown those personal qualities I'd expect and want in a Manchester United manager.
Personally I'd be gutted if Southgate was to be the next United manager, I really don't see it as being successful. The only saving grace is that the new structure at the club should in theory mean the club is not building for a manager, but for their own vision. Meaning if a manager is not successful then we should in theory be able to sack them without being left with a half a dozen players signed by them to suit their style of play.
Maybe that is where Southgate fits in, he's not the guy to take the project to the finish line, but is maybe seen as the right guy to implement the changes and then be a the fall guy, making way for the guy who'll then have well run club and a well built squad ready to take the next step.
I dunno, all I know is I'd be disappointed to see Southgate in the Old Trafford dugout.
23 Mar 2024 15:35:36
Im not endorsing Southgate, like I said I don’t think he’s the man for the job but when you add in his availability to the mix it makes it even more absurd to go for him…i.
23 Mar 2024 16:47:39
I think it's right for them to consider him. I think there is a long list of potential managers that will all come under consideration some obviously to a greater degree than others.
I don't think for one minute he will be our next manager. There are so many reasons I come to that conclusion.
If England were not playing this week the sounthgste talk would not be at the height it is.
Lots of people having their buttons pushed by this and I don't think there is a story in it.
I genuinely believed Southgate when he spoke on the subject yesterday.
I really hope he wins the euros and stays on for the world Cup. Done a great job for England imo. I think intl football suits him.
23 Mar 2024 18:08:07
Out of interest who would u pick Ken?
23 Mar 2024 19:22:10
I really don't know Tim. I don't know enough about a lot of the names mentioned to be honest.
I'm not that fused really who comes in. Whomever it is, has a great opportunity. They won't be taking over as big a mess as some of their predecessors. Great time to be coming in imo.
24 Mar 2024 11:39:10
The number of posts and conversations around Southgate this week mean that the red top scum that started the rumour have got exactly what they wanted. It’s madness what people will believe.
24 Mar 2024 13:00:05
Gds2 they are pushing the buttons of the gullible and sitting back and laughing as people go into meltdown it's quite funny actually.