26 Feb 2024 11:27:24
Question directed at ajh
You say below the manager is not the issue.
I'd say the manager is very much pay if the issue.
Do you think in 2 years his coaching has improved any of our players?
So you see any patterns or evidence of any team identity/ style of play?
Klopp played kids yesterday that have hardly ever played before but it was totally evident it was a klopp team.
Same can be said for an arteta team or pep team or simione team.
The only thing you can identify an eth team by is that your are guaranteed to give up loads of chances like we do like ajax did with a vacant midfield devoid of players that like to tackle.
26 Feb 2024 12:10:20
AJH, you’re the first to tell people to stop banging on about the same thing repeatedly, most recently to Recon over the weekend.
Now is your time to say the same thing to Ken.
Ken, how about a change of topic? There are only so many ways you can word the same thing.
26 Feb 2024 12:27:55
Klopp 9 years, 8th, 4th, 4th, 2nd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd, 5th, TBC
Arteta 5 years, 8th, 8th, 5th, 2nd, 3rd, TBC
Simione 13 years, 5th, 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 4th, 1st, 3rd, 3rd, 4th, TBC
I think it's clear time is key but the first 2 season finishes are also key in this. You also have to look at player personnel, Martinez, Antony, Hojlund, Malacia, Eriksen, Mount, Evans, Casemiro and Onana are his only contracted signed players.
Martinez and Hojlund successful
Onana and Mount jury out currently
Malacia was for cover
Eriksen and Evans free transfers to bulk out squad
Casemiro not ETH's first choice
Antony, not looking great.
But in Klopps first 4 windows he brought 14 players including Mane, Wijnaldum, Matip Van Dijk, Robertson and Salah, all who became and were starting 11 players. Half the team.
Arteta signed 16 players in his first 4 windows including Gabriel, Partey, Odegard, White and Ramsdale.
Guardiola signed 20 players in his first 4 windows including Gundogan, Sane, Stones, Silva, Ederson, Walker, Laporte, Jesus.
I personally just think it is to early to make a call, especially when at the end of last season ETH looked like a great appointment but we are still judging off of players that everyone continually says are not good enough and the our best player who changes the team when he's in and the style we play is a ETH signing, Martinez. 1 more season under the new leadership then make a decision IMO.
26 Feb 2024 13:02:02
Wazza how many ways can you tell us Bruno is world class?
The question was directed to Ajh because he stated he didn't think the manager was a problem.
I'd like to understand that point of view a bit better from someone who I think is very objective most of the time and is not afraid to change or explain his views.
I don't think ajh gets entrenched in his views so that's why I asked him particularly.
There are posters that imo are worth asking and others who are a lot more emotional.
26 Feb 2024 13:18:57
Ports I get that point if view. If that's what they decide then I'll sort that 100% I'm not anti eth and don't dislike him. I've no faith.
If sjr the dof etc see stuff in not seeing I'll bow to their expertise all day long.
But I genuinely have lost all confidence in him but I'm very far removed and not a subject matter expert. I believe the new management team are so ill be led by them completely.
It's a waiting game to see if the experts and those closest to it see enough progress behind the scenes that warrant giving eth more time.
If they see it then I'm back on the eth bus. Simple as that. But at this point my belief and confidence in him has been shattered.
26 Feb 2024 13:47:12
Ken, I must admit after Saturday my thoughts were he's done, losing at home to Fulham in the manner they did was so disheartening. I guess I just feel it's history repeating itself with every manager. Big characters in the squad just seem to down tools or when the going gets tough, we just see that some players are not good enough. Rashford gave the ball away 9 times on Saturday, simply unacceptable for a player like him in this squad.
Iwobi said Fulham wanted it more and he was right, but that is the worst thing more than anything for a United player, the opposition wanting it more. But I take your point, ETH seems like he lacks the charisma at the moment to get a tune out of this lot but I honestly don't know of a manager who could? I've never liked all of Klopp's hugging and high fives and fist pumps after every game but is this the world we live in now and the type of professionals we're dealing with that they need that?
26 Feb 2024 14:02:01
Ken, we've had t Managers since SAF, all have struggled. Jose called it out, Ralf called it out, the club is a shambles. Change the Manager all you like but nothing will get better until the root causes are addressed.
As for ETH, he isn't rhe finished article, but apparently, the club did a proper review of candidates before setting on him, perhaps they made another mistake, or perhaps he is trying to swim uphill.
He's made Garnacho a starter, he's made Mainoo a starter, he dealt with Ronaldo, who we should never have brought back, he dealt with Sancho, correctly in my view.
On the downside, Bruno as Captain is a joke, he has persevered with Antony for far too long, and we are massively inconsistent, even within a 90 minute game.
We have players who don't seem to be fully committed, they need shipping out. No Manager will be successful in a culture of amateurish chaos.
SJR seems to have his head screwed on, appointing qualified people into influential positions. I hope he has the balls to tale the tough decisions, Rashford being a prime example.
Until we deal with thw wider crap, the Manager doesn't stand a chance. Jose finished second and went backwards Ole finished second and went backwards, ETH finished 3rd, won a Cup, and has gone backwards. It's not the Manager.
26 Feb 2024 14:32:20
I'm fairly old school with a lot of my thoughts ports.
However in my professional life I've had to adjust or get left behind. I can assure you I've not been left behind.
People need to earn to you they need to follow your and believe in you. Once that belief is gone its a very hard hill to climb.
Flexibility and knowing that you can't treat everybody the same in order to get the best from everybody.
There needs to be a clear strategy and guiding principles of course but within those there has got to be flexibilities that allow for different personality types.
Compromise needs to come from the top 1st to accommodate and inspire all around you.
As I said if the new co owner and major shareholder and his team are seeing more evidence of that from within then ill bow to their knowledge, experience and expertise.
Leaders lead followers get on the bus and follow. At this moment in time I'd rather be on a different bus just now with a different driver.
26 Feb 2024 14:55:36
Thanks ajh.
I agree it's not all the manager. I agree he has done a good job in the individuals you mentioned.
I agree that under the set up he and most previous managers were not set up to succeed.
But when I ask myself do I see eth succeeding under whatever set up is put in place to support him I still don't see him succeeding.
I make that judgement on what I'veseen here over 2 years. Zero improvement in our technical play. Zero individual improvement.
I feel if we leave garnacho with him he will end up like Antony has after 4 years with him.
I see little to no improvement in garnacho's decision making since he came into the team.
That's coaching.
4 years with Antony and you see the finished article.
Rashford not trying and still making the same mistakes as he was 2 years ago no development in his game. Bruno no development to his game.
Odd signings like onana.
So no matter what structure he has above him I don't see that altering what he is doing on the training pitch.
I appreciate your reply.
If you think all my reasons are invalid and see something I'm not then that's OK i'm happy to disagree.
None of us are close enough to know for sure so it's a waiting game.
26 Feb 2024 15:02:21
People forget that our team the squad does do well one year and drop considerably the next.
How much was it the team performing better and ETH was just here?
Every game, our team is so open, he thinks its just Eredivise and hasn't understood the level he is at.
2 years now and he still doesn't know what his players strengths are and what their weaknesses are.
Was Forson starting just because we want him to sign a contract? Because Amad looked more comfortable playing.
26 Feb 2024 16:36:32
Rashford is quality, but his head appears to be elsewhere and his effort is appalling. Antony I never understood, a huge fee for a pretty average player.
I accept that there isn't a clearly defined style of play but I'd like to see the club better organised with clear principles and direction before we change Manager again. He may not be the right man, but my God it must be hard work right now.
26 Feb 2024 16:43:10
My opinion is that ETH has done okay under very difficult circumstances. It’s very hard to assess if he could be a top manager in a more coherent club structure. But, ultimately, I suspect that Ratcliffe’s team have already decided that they’re going to bring in their own manager in the summer. Leaving ETH face the rest of the season with one fit striker and one fit left-back, whatever the ffp constraints, is a clear sign that the club doesn’t want him to bring in any new players.
26 Feb 2024 17:24:15
The upturn in results once Cas/ Martinez/ Shaw returned can't be overlooked. He had the first team he wanted, for the first time, since he arrived.
But it was very shortlived once that XI was broken apart again.
All the top sides have had massive injury problems but one of them is still going for the quadruple. I don't see them getting it but they're up there. Not only are Liverpool's 'lesser' squad players able to come in and make an impact (ie Elliott / Endo / Bradley / Jones etc) but even their youth come in and make an impact. Maybe it's because it seems a much more positive, healthy environment.
Although the numbers being thrown around for exits seem ridiculous to me we do need to be bringing in at least half a dozen excellent players who are all able to start and affect the game.
Oh to jump forward and see what the side looks like in the business end of next season, and who's managing it. I reckon same man, with 4 new starters.
26 Feb 2024 18:29:03
I'm not sure if ETH will be successful and his signings, team selection and signings appear poor to me but, I won't judge him on this season. Next season there can be no excuses.
26 Feb 2024 20:06:08
Upturn in results look who that was against! Come on please stop trying to defend the indefensible it don’t matter SJR already decided he gone I just hope they clear out all the coaching staff too.
27 Feb 2024 08:55:33
Strangeways
Did not know you are close to SJR and what he ahs decided lol.
We beat Villa and Westham at home. wolves away and luton away. Westham and villa were above us in the league table at the time. You seem to take every small window to thrash this manager and diminish everything else. If you are going to give it to the guy every opportunity after a bad result also give credit when its due.
Spurs have added 13 players in 12 months and no loan deal. All proper signings. Go check it on Transfermarkt. No one seems to talk about that. yes they lost kane. They have spend more than we did. They also finished above us before eth started in 2022. No European football at all this season and out of cups early on. one game a week pretty much all year and no dramas with players like sancho, greenwood, antony.
27 Feb 2024 12:02:13
Cmon Strangeways, barring last weekend we were one of the form teams this year and were really closing down Spurs/ Villa which is the only aim at this point I reckon. The top 6 are two mini-leagues - the scrap for top between Liverpool, Arsenal and City, then the scrap between Villa, Spurs and us. I reckon the top 6 places will ultimately be made up of these teams in those groups but couldn't call the order at this point.