02 Feb 2016 13:24:33
Hi all,
Thanks to the Eds as always.
Well I for one found the news yesterday (albeit in some people eyes inevitable) a real wake up call.
I've read plenty here over the past 6-7 months from fans, readers, Eds about who United were and what the realistic expectations should be now in comparison to old. The announcement yesterday of Pep to City not only highlights how far they have come but also how far we have fallen. Before I say anymore, this is NOT meant to be a moan, this is my view on a) how we got here and b) what I think needs to happen next.
Firstly, the world of football is a place of business. So, how does the biggest club in the UK, one of the biggest in World football fall this far having dominated for so long? The short answer is, they allowed themselves to. I'm not suggesting we are now a bottom half side but top 4 is now an uncertainty for us which in itself sounds ridiculous. SAF and David Gill are the main people responsible for this. I do not believe for one minute that DM or LVG can have the majority of the blame attached to them, it is crazy to even suggest that. Partly for team performances yes but ultimately the people that were/ have been at the club for many many years allowed the club to get into this position. What's followed is a square peg in a circle hole (EW) who doesn't understand football and two managers who are trying to move on from times a club refuses too.
The reality is that the previous board took their foot off the gas. An attitude of, "they will never achieve what we have" clouded their judgement and now we are the second best team in Manchester, in terms of current squad, league position, and expectations, these are facts. We are becoming the new Liverpool!
For the first time yesterday I realised something, the current 'plan' isn't working. An announcement has just been made for crying out loud that funding to our youth set up is being cut.
Ed002 suggested some united fans fail to recognise the work going into place for the future and up until yesterday I agreed with her. However now I honestly believe their is only one answer to this problem, Jose. If we don't appoint Mouriniho (putting my neck out here) we lose any chance of winning the league for the next 3-4 years. I am not a Jose fan, not at all, I have regularly criticised him, but City in a way have made our minds up for us. Jose wanted the Chelsea job for the long haul, I say let's see what he can do here. I don't blame Moyes or LVG for the current situation, it feels like the club is lost in translation so to speak. Jose would certainly break that vicious circle if nothing else, plus he will be determined to prove his capabilities. With Wenger, Pochettino, Klopp, Martinez to name a few and now Pep, we need someone who can cut it at the highest level.
So there you have it, that's my view. Look forward to all the comments, arguments, criticisms and hopefully some words from those who agree.
02 Feb 2016 13:40:54
Bringing in Jose is like putting a plaster over the gapping wound where your leg used to be.
The problems at our club are not cosmetic, they run right the way through top to bottom. And without addressing the other problems no manager in the world will fix it.
One of my main issues with Jose being given the job is it shows a real failure to grasp what is wrong with the club. He is a short term manager, whose tactics and managerial style only works in the short term.
As a club we have built our history on youth development and positive, proactive and progressive football.
Mourinho is almost the polar oppositie of what our club stands for.
He won't help overhaul the youth system, he won't think any further than adding one more title to his CV, and he will do that in the disruptive, ego driven way he always has.
Hiring Mourinho is a knee jerk reaction to City hiring Pep. But it fails to fully grasp the issues with our club. Pep will be at City for three years, our clubs rebuild will probably take at least that long if we start now. Its too late to compete with City in the short term, and trying to do so will be very damaging to our long term aims. Better to plan for the long term, and return the club to what is at the core of our success.
02 Feb 2016 13:56:04
there are 2 stand out managers in the world pep and jose .
united need to be back competing, over the next couple of years we need a manager who is a proven winner has done it at the very top and imo one that knows the EPL .
city made a statement with pep and the whole of football took notice .
jose could do the same for united.
02 Feb 2016 14:08:38
Hi Shappy,
I think you have misread the post.
I agree that the problems run deep but you need to realise that in order to solve those problems we need drastic change. The past two changes have not improved anything, plus with investment in the youth now being cut are options run even thinner.
I appreciate your comment but to me you sound more stuck in the past at times than anyone else. It is time for a change, not a half hearted one, not a short term one, a full scale club review my friend.
02 Feb 2016 14:22:30
I don't understand why we can't be competing on the field whilst fixing the issues of the field. The two are not mutually exclusive and should go hand in hand. If LVG can fix behind the scenes but not on the pitch then find someone who can. If Jose can only win but not sort the mess in the background, bring in someone else with him who can do that!
02 Feb 2016 14:27:47
So jred we should make a statement and sign the second best manager in the world. What kind of a statement is that?
KingGiggsy, I am more than aware that we need to completely start anew. We neef to restructure the club. I have a post on the "others" page which explains my views on it.
But restucturing is a long term plan, you can't do it overnight. As such all our planning has to have an element of looking to the future with it. Hiring Mourinho is a knee jerk reaction, and one that at best is a short term solution, at worse a serious threat to what should he our long term goals.
I can assure you I'm not living in the past, but to ignore what sets us apart will cost us. A massive part of our appeal world wide us our history and our traditions. Why makes a lad in China or India or America want to follow United ahead of Chelsea or Man City?
To turn our backs on that will have a massive effect on our ability to move forward. Unlike City or Chelsea who have mega rich owners we NEED that support to be able to compete financially with these clubs. To turn our back on the very thing that attracts them would be akin to commerical suicide.
More now than ever do we need to focus on what makes us Manchester United, and that has to be central to our rebuild. Of course we need to move with the times, but to forget who were are and what gots us here would he devestating to our ability to move forward.
02 Feb 2016 14:33:08
Hi Eric,
I think what you're u are suggesting is almost the intro of a DoF role. I'm not sure that works on a frequent enough basis to warrant it here but it is an option. Up until yesterday I was happy (ish) with the situation but I've had my wake up call now.
Jose wants to establish himself as a longer term manager, I now say let's give him the chance to do so. Football has moved on and United have fallen behind, we need to catch up. Jose will not show much interest in the youth set up but with funding being cut anyway perhaps this is something that needs an overhaul too. We miss it having a decent coach to oversee it all so perhaps that should be another priority. Also EW needs to go if LVG does, he has failed just as much as Moyes and LVG have.
02 Feb 2016 14:34:50
shaps
like i said pep and jose are the 2 stand out managers in the world .
city getting pep was huge deal in football the only thing that would come close would be united getting jose.
there are a lot of other managers out there with pros and cons .
but if your just talking about making a statement jose would defo do that.
02 Feb 2016 14:42:58
Shappy thanks again for your response love a discussion with you.
I believe that the reasons we have such a following is because of our success. Success that was unrivalled for years at a time when football was growing to be the biggest sport on the planet. However, now football has established itself as this it has had to adapt to suit the demands of that title, investors are everywhere, it is a business now as much as a sport that people love to watch. Appointing Jose would no longer be knee jerk is what I'm getting at. Beginning of this season yes, but not now. I am concerned that by not adapting we will lose some of our international status to the likes of City, and that comes down to success on a domestic, European and global level. We must not forget who we are or where we have come from but the focus must be on where we go next albeit if that is a huge change in culture to suit the demands of the current state of the game.
02 Feb 2016 14:48:12
Jred, a statement that we get the second best manager while the team across the road got the best one.
Jose's light is dimming, the last thing we need is a waning egotist to move the club forward. If that's what you want we best stick with LvG.
02 Feb 2016 14:59:01
shap
as you can see on the page not everyone thinks pep is the best in the world.
i know u don't like jose but if you think Man United and jose wouldn't be a huge deal your nuts .
02 Feb 2016 14:59:48
KingGiggsy, how can hiring Jose or deciding to hire Jose the day after Pep is announced as City's new manager be anything but kneejerk? If Guardiola was still up for grabs would you want Jose over him?
As for how we accalimed world wide support, it is true we were successful at a time the EPL was starting to be exported to the rest of the world. And I'm sure our succesd played more than a little part of that. But there were other successful teams at that time. Arsenal and then Chelsea. But we won the most fans, and that there has to be some reason behind that. Style of play, history and the excitement of young players making a name for themselves would have also been a big draw to the club. Ask yourself as a fan what is it you value most about our club? Those things will need to be key in any rebuild.
02 Feb 2016 15:31:26
Jred, the English media will make a big deal of it as they always do with anything involving Jose.
But which do you think will be considered the better deal by the rest of the world? How will people in Spain, Italy and Germany feel?
How will the fans of those teams we would come up against in the UCL feel? Would they be more worried by Jose United or Pep's City?
As I have said previously I like Mourinho, I really like him. He is an excellent character for football. Much like Loki in the Marvel films.
But he isn't the right man for us. The only thing he brings is short term success. I don't feel destroying everything we all love about United is worth short term success.
Jose and United just aren't a good fit, regardless of what the media say. People liken him to Sir Alex, and he certainly has elements very simialr to the great man. But he also has other elements of his personality that are polar opposite to Sir Alex. And it is those which stop him from being able to bring long term success to any club.
Jose at United won't stop Pep winning anything. But it will cause a massive media storm for all the wrong reasons around our club while the real issue lay unresolved. Meaning that when it all ends badly we will be in a much worse state while City will have won over many fans with their winning and pleasing style.
Jose would be the final nail in our coffin, the last desperate throw of the dice made out of desperation.
Of course we would only find out who is right if Mourinho gets the job. And I'm hoping we never get to find out, as I am sure I am right, and I would get no pleasure from saying I told you so.
02 Feb 2016 15:43:36
shap
he isn't the right man in your opinion and don't forget you tried to tell me moyes and lvg where. i really didn't want either.
also jose is a huge name in football as big as pep it would be a huge deal if he went to united.
02 Feb 2016 16:39:30
shaps
what do you think is going to happen if we sign jose.
02 Feb 2016 17:58:58
I don't think we need a DoF. Just ha good head of youth development to run it!
02 Feb 2016 18:50:59
Jred, This is what will happen if we sign Jose.
He will come in and shake things up. He will get the team working on the basics and get them playing a functional style of football.
He will ship out any player who will not run there socks off. Players like Mata, Depay and Schweinsteiger will be out of the first team.
His use of young players will be limited. Players such as Shaw, McNair, CBJ, Varela, Depay, Pereira, Januzaj and Martial will get limited minutes. He has very rarely given a first team spot to a player under 22 on a regular basis. Even to players he rates highly like Varane at Real Madrid.
He will not use the academy and rather have a larger squad filled with more seasoned professionals.
He will cause controversy, and drag the name of the club through the mud with his antics.
He will continue to use the same managerial style he has always done. Where he creates tension in the dressingroom. Normally he vitimises a player or two while praising a couple of his favourites. To make the rest fear being on the wrong side of him and want to be on him good side. The problem is it creates a fractured dressingroom. Which he tries to unite with a us against the world ideal. Eventually the players see that there is no agenda against them and he is just a bully managing through fear. At which point he loses the dressingroom. This often happens around the two to three year mark.
He will then get sacked. Leaving us with a youth academy that isn't untilised properly, a fractured squad that is often filled with players at the back end of their prime years.
While all this happens, we will watch functional, almost boring football. While Pep creates a viberant exciting and winning style of football across the City, he will win between 3-6 trophies during that time and cement Man City as the dominant team in Manchester and in England. By the time he steps down City will be established, and hage a plan on succession. Where as we will be in an awful mess back at square one needing a squad rebuild, correction with the running of the youth system and clearly an also ran in the EPL.