25 Mar 2015 13:31:50
"24 Mar 2015 22:47:59
"I can't remember anyone coming up with the tactics/system/player combination we are currently using so we were all wrong."
Shappy I disagree. I think many, many folk called for this team and these tactics to be used, myself included."
Juanmatasbeard.
Juan are you saying you asked for a team that set up in a 433 which contained Blind a LB, Jones and Smalling at CB, Valencia at RB, Fellaini in midfield along with Mata on the right and Young on the left with no place for Di Maria or Falcao?
Yes you may may have wanted Rooney as a striker, and yes you may have wanted Herrera to start, and yes you may have even wanted Mata to be involved.
But nearly everyone wants to see Rafael at RB and Shaw at LB, most want Rojo along side Smalling. Until recently no one wanted either Young or Fellaini near the team let alone starting.
So I personally think no one has ever said they wanted the team we started with on Sinday as first choice.
25 Mar 2015 14:27:34
I agree Shappy. I think it's a pleasant surprise to see which group of players are making it work on the pitch at the moment.
25 Mar 2015 18:35:44
That is so true Shappy. Who wouldve thought Falcao or Di Maria wouldn't be starting games.
25 Mar 2015 19:06:43
So Shappy would you call this team LVG's first choice? Or has the suspension of Di Maria and the performance of Mata the week prior forced his hand? If RVP was fit do you think Rooney would be up top which if not then implicates on the postion of Herrera?
Wasn't Shaw and Rojo suffering from knocks so that's why they were omitted? Rafael hasn't played competitive first team football in yonder so how is it even explicable to throw him in at this part of the season especially against teams like Spurs and Liverpool?
What I am saying is essentially the way we have been set up recently is what the fans, critics and co all called for. If you or anyone else is trying to tell me that none of this has happened by a) chance due to injuires/suspensions or b) because LVG has actually listened to his critics then that individual is biased beyond belief.
Look I'm happy in the end it's coming together but I'm not going to all of a sudden dispose of any views I've had on this season on the back of a few good perfomances. Like I said LVG gets top four then he has my backing to go again next year but if anything less than a title challenge is on the agenda next year then I'll be the first to voice my opinion.
25 Mar 2015 19:59:08
JMB,
I think you have proved with your posts over the last few days who is 'biased beyond belief', you seem incapable of giving LVG any credit for anything.
25 Mar 2015 20:17:25
GDS is that joke? Look through my previous posts and you will see me saying 'credit to LVG' on several occasions. Again this uncanny super power you have of only seeing what you want to see seems to be rearing its ugly head again. I apologise for being able to see both sides of our season.
25 Mar 2015 21:42:56
JMB, you have a clever tactic of "spread betting" your opinion. There is an old phrase for people who do this, that they "run with the fox, and hunt with the hounds".
This is you in a nutshell. You are so obviously in the anti LvG camp. Just admit it and be true to your self.
You take every opportunity to criticise the manager, and discredit him whenever anything good happens. To counter that, every so often you will throw in a very thinly weiled compliment or bit of praise, apparently just so at a later date you can justify your view with " if you read my posts I also said. "
No doubt I will again be labeled an LvG apologist, or whatever, for posting this. That is not the case. I think he has done a fairly decent job, but not brilliant. The reason I respond to these type of posts is because I am not stuck firmly on one side of the fence, and prefer to see a fair, balanced argument.
If you look over the season, the anti LvG camp have constantly looked for things to blame the manager for. Some justified, some not. First we played the wrong formation. We changed the formation, then it was the wrong personnel. We changes the personnel, then it was the wrong tactics. We changed the tactics, then it was the wrong tempo. And so on, and so on.
Earlier in the season we had huge injury problems, it was the managers fault for being a dinosaur. The injuries have healed, and we have a fairly ( though not 100% ) squad. What happened to the dinosaurs training methods now?
We have supposed world class players playing like pub players. All the managers fault for playing them out of position. Take DiMaria, who have been generally awful, with glimpse is brilliance. Granted, he has played a few different positions, most of which he played at Madrid. The team that where he was deemed good enough for us to shell out £60 million.
I ask you, does LvG asking him to play through the middle instead of out wide suddenly remove his ability to pass the ball 10 yards to a team mate. Does it make him chose the wrong option every time he gets the ball?
I could go on all day with these contradictions. Personally, I think the truth is that there is some justification to all these views and arguments.
What really bugs me is that despite all these views and arguments, is that when the manager does get the team performing in a way that we all like, when the team is finally starting to look like a proper United side, it is suddenly all just an accident. One big fluke, like the heavens have suddenly converged over Old Trafford and the team is playing well because some almighty power is smiling down on us.
God forbid, it couldn't possibly be that the manger has made a good decision or two.
26 Mar 2015 02:24:41
On the contrary I am not in any 'camp' Betty the only 'camp' I see myself in is the Man Utd camp and what is good for our club.
You say I try to discredit the manager yet I have said may times 'credit to LVG' for this and that but ultimately by pointing out the various factors at play around the time of certain matches means I am 'discrediting' LVG at any opportunity?
In essence say Stoke beat Villa 1-0. Villa have two players sent off, Stoke score an offside goal and Villa miss a penalty. So credit to Stoke for the win, that will be the stat but when you dissect the stat and look at how they got their win brings with it discredit does it not? Simple example but you get my point.
So Betty let me ask you this as a 'guy sitting on a fence' has LVG changed his tactics from 3-5-2 to 4-3-3, playing players who wouldn't get a look in before and playing players in their rightful position after eight months of criticism because of some sudden enlightened coincidence or because he has bowed to pressure? Your opinion?
It is easy to sit here on your 'fence' and say look he's did a decent job (which he hasn't he has done what is minimally expected of him especially when you consider he is getting paid an estimated £8million a year, fifth highest in Europe) and he's getting the players to play good football (which would die without Felliani) and be that popular balanced guy on a forum. But to give a balanced unbiased view of the good, the bad, the negative and the positive without trying to equally outweigh each one is much tougher.
You say it's 'spread betting', funny enough you claim to be on the fence with a leg hovering over one side so who's 'spread betting' again? A little hypocritical mate.
26 Mar 2015 06:43:01
JMB, look mate, this is not an argument where there is a right or wrong. Just a very different point if views. My sitting on the fence is nothing to do with popularity.it is, and never has been, that I think LvG is the best choice. I held the same view last season with Moyes, and that was not popular I can assure you!
I have tried to explain before, that my argument is that here we have managers trying to follow in the footsteps of the greatest manager ever in SAF. They are on a hiding to nothing.
LvG is egotistical, arrogant and stubborn. He has a proven ( to a point) pedigree and experience of managing big clubs, big names and big ego's. There are all the attributes that Moyesmwas pilloried for NOT having. In my view, that was a fair argument.
So we appoint a manager who does have these "qualities", and now he gets mad it if I see for that. Contradictory, or what?
It is also fair to say that LvG tends to have his favourites, and can be decisive. Not good qualities, for sure.
He has made several bad decisions, and some very confusing ones at that. But he has also done some very good things.
I still maintain that the " 7 months of crap" prior to Spurs / Liverpool is more than unfair.
It is generally accepted that his remit for the season was CL football. He is well in course for that, and 2nd place is well within our grasp. I agree that United fans want to see us play the United way, and I am one of them. But football is a results driven game.
By "sitting on the fence" as you put it, all I will say is that in reality I accept that is takes time for a manager to come to a new country, where football is a completely different animal to any that he has previously been familiar with. He should not, and will not be given unlimited amount of time to implement his plans and ideas.
If he continues with poor results and poor play, he deserved the criticism. But when he does appear to be making good progress, he deserved a little praise too, instead of a very biased and bigoted view that it has only happened by accident. Like it is nothing to do with him, but rather some "divine intervention".
To be fair, it seems to be the way society is in general these days that there must always be a " fall guy". That one person is always to blame. Ultimately, the manager is usually that man.
But what about all the players who have undoubted quality, but have been performing so poorly?
To blame the manager for everything, is to excuse all those underperforming "stars", and completely devoid them of any blame or responsibility. In my view, fans who take this approach are short changing themselves, and justifying under achievement of very highly paid professionals who are quite clearly capable of better.
26 Mar 2015 09:38:38
JMB,
No it is not a joke, it seems like your opinion is the correct one and anybody who suggests different is 'biased beyond belief', but if anybody dares to suggest anything of the sort about you then you get all defensive.
Maybe you don't even realise you are doing it, but you quite clearly do discredit the manager a lot of the time, even if now and again you give him some credit you generally take it back by suggesting a reason why he may possibly be doing ok. Like I say maybe you don't know you are doing it but you most certainly do.