Manchester United banter 5

25 Nov 2025 09:49:04
For the first time I'm going to criticise Amorim.

His subs and tactics when they went down to 10 men, baffled me. We didn't need an extra defender when they were playing with one up top. Move Shaw to LB instead of bringing on Dalot who offers nothing, and get an extra body in higher up the pitch.

Plus, playing two defenders as attacking wing backs cost us when they got into attacking positions. They just didn't have the skill or nous to capitalise when we got anywhere near the 18 yard box.

I'd also question starting a guy up top who's not played all season, instead of going with Mbuemo up front. Anyone who's ever played Football Manager knows you never start a player who's not match fit. It never works! ?

Easy with hindsight, I know, and the players lack of intensity was also a big factor, but I think this was a game and a situation where the manager's refusal to stray from his beloved system, has cost us.

25 Nov 2025 13:17:35
I agree Stevie. Playing at home, against 10 men should have been a slam dunk, but instead we were passive, the Manager did not take the bull by the horns. If ever there was a game to change formation, this was it, but no.

3 good wins, followed by 2 dodgy draws, and then last night, very very disappointing.

25 Nov 2025 14:08:37
I think he was a little hamstrung by the players available, the bench didn’t look great from the start with only really Mount who could change anything in an attacking sense as he’s too scared to put Lacey on. He should have had Obi on the bench or at least another forward player. We needed a left sided player to come on as Dorgu was terrible, he had Malacia on the bench but chose to bring on Dalot, who weirdly did exactly the same as he always does, absolutely nothing. So why have Malacia and Lacey on the bench if he’s not willing to bring them on? Pointless.

His decisions and the results will be the reason why he fails, his subs are pathetic, I understand his system against 11 men, get the players all learning it, bring in better wing backs and a midfield and we will improve, but against 10 men with Everton playing a striker without a premier league goal to have 3 at the back was pathetic and a sackable offence for me.

Not that it would have made a difference as we could have played all night but Everton spent the whole 2nd half time wasting and the ref totally ignored it. If 14 minutes had been added on I don’t think anyone could have been annoyed or surprised, yet he added on 4. Their subs took that alone, so that's to suggest that Everton didn’t time waste at all in the 2nd half? Absolutely pathetic refereeing as always.

25 Nov 2025 07:39:04
{Ed's Note - SamiKewell has posted a new article entitled, Liverpool FC Team Issues and Misjudged Expectations

25 Nov 2025 05:59:54
Another one of those false dawns. Just when we had an opportunity to go into 5h place and to stake a claim on a European place, we lose at home to a mediocre 10 man team. A weak tackle by Yoro followed by a weak attempt to stop a shot that might have been saved - the only one on target - followed by a complete failure in front of goal. It's not like we didn't create opportunities. Zirkzee had 3 excellent header chances. 23 (6) shots v 2 (1). At least we dominated. Excellent game by Pickford combined with terrible marksmanship. Zirkzee, showed why he is too slow and lacks the first touch necessary to succeed in the EPL. Bruno was particularly uninspiring. Nor for the first time, when he's needed the most, when he has an opportunity to lead by example, he comes up short. Yesterday reminded me of the Europa cup final when he also simply failed to inspire.

Without Cunha, Amorim got it completely wrong initially axing the partnership between Amad and Mbuemo and bringing in Zirkzee who frankly has never been good enough even when he was not hampered by lack of first team appearances due to injury. What was he thinking? Was he trying to outwit David Moyes? In the end though the statistics tell the story. This was a repeat of last years' lows. Total lack of conviction undid the domination. A pretty pusillanimous performance by every member of the team. Just as we were reveling in the schadenfreude of City and Liverpool's weekend losses.

25 Nov 2025 07:44:15
Maze, I don't disagree with your player assessment.
I'm not sure placing blame on Amorim is justified, such was the abysmal showing, even from the subs.
From my side, not throwing an unknown like Lacey into the equation was his biggest fault.
We are too predictable. We desperately need fresh faces to accelerate the exit of a few.

25 Nov 2025 07:58:34
It was an utter $h1t show. Appalling complacency. Walkball at its most pathetic level. False dawn? Lamentable.

25 Nov 2025 09:40:58
Even if we had won the game tonight, I don't enjoy watching this team. I am watching Utd since '85 and I always love watching attacking wingers and we have always had that in our team. I know football evolves but this is not for me.

25 Nov 2025 10:20:08
Fizz 100 percent right mate, I was worried before the match, given our inability to beat a very poor Spurs team.

I'm feeling this morning very disappointed but certainly not surprised.

Everton knew how we would setup, how we would stick to plan A and how and where to target us. 5 at the back against 10 men, Dorgu off for another defender, absolutely no fluidity, no change of system no nothing.

Rant over and on to Palace, let's hope for a good reaction to last night abysmal performance.

25 Nov 2025 01:58:19
Oh how we missed Cunha last night.
Certain players lack desire, hunger and the mental strength to churn out results.
We had the opportunity to get top 4/5 after others faltered.
Rather than take that opportunity, we laboured through the motions, even against 10men.

For me, after that abject performance, the following players hammered the final nail in their coffin.
Dorgu, Mazraoui, Amad, Zirkzee, Bruno, Shaw, Mount, Dalot.

Mainoo came on and at least had the desire to try and change the game, the others kept going backwards, throwing arms in the air, not tracking back etc etc.

If nothing else, this performance proved that we are still 6 (at least) players away from competing week in, week out.

I hope it was a blip, I hope Cunha comes back and the intensity is there again, but it should be running through the entire team, and after that it is evident it isn't.

Cut our losses, move forward.

25 Nov 2025 08:28:37
Surely you can't think that Amad and Mount - who have been two of our best players this season have put the nail in their coffin? Incidentally they are two of the players who actually run and work for the team.

Zirkzee, Dorgu and Dalot I completely agree with.

25 Nov 2025 18:25:05
I get you on Dalot but why bring him on at LwB against 10? It’s not even fair on him.

Same with a few really they just not good at what they’re being asked to do.

Mount is supposedly a coach’s dream and intelligent but he looks lost. It says a lot.

26 Nov 2025 09:14:08
JD, mount has not been available for most of his time, he was a bad purchase and we should cut him loose.

Amad is not a WB and is too lightweight. He throws his arms up more than Bruno, doesn't pass when he should, tries to walk the ball through a low block etc etc etc. he annoys me more than any other player in our squad, and that's saying something.

24 Nov 2025 18:30:42
Win, Lose or Draw tonight. I just hope we continue to see the things that we have been able to get behind over the last few games.

If we do lose, at least we see Everton go above Liverpool. As I have said before, I live behind enemy lines and it'd be great for the city ?.

24 Nov 2025 21:59:20
U got your wish…. the second part I mean lol.

24 Nov 2025 22:01:26
Well ot was plain. awful. can't beat 10 men in 80 minutes is embarrassing. Will not change, 3 at back to the end is absolutely unbelievable. and palace next. Another battle towards bottom incoming. at least try and play a midfielder.

24 Nov 2025 22:06:38
That was about as spineless as it gets tonight.

24 Nov 2025 22:49:25
Seems crazy but that could be the beginning of the end for RA. His first half was pitiful.
Palace could very easily see us 2 points from 12 which is around last season form.
Swiftly followed by afcon. Does highlight though how poor our squad is.

Sir Jim is a fool if he thinks he can challenge for Europe without reinforcements but apparently we’ve no money.
The sheer lack of effort or pride or anything from the captain down is the most gutting.

24 Nov 2025 23:05:59
Our issue is that the whole left side is a waste of time. Licha back in. Play Shaw at LWB because Dalot and Dorgu are dreadful there. Cunha was badly missed tonight.

24 Nov 2025 23:40:45
Dalot is dreadful anywhere with dorgu not far behind. We play a system predicated on wing backs providing for our forwards and amad aside all our options are total crap.

24 Nov 2025 23:45:10
Shaw doesn't have the legs and is injury prone. More importantlt we still need two top midfielders. One defensive and one attacking. The latter to take the weight of being creative off Bruno who can't always provide the i.

24 Nov 2025 23:59:07
Pathetic. Hopefully Gana went into our changing room and slapped every one of them.

25 Nov 2025 11:07:46
Salford7 I get that Shaw is injury prone but he's played a good few games now. He isn't really going to play at LCB with Licha back. And we're basically playing with 10 with Dorgu and Dalot out left.

He is our only option there. And if he can't play there then a LWB is our highest priority above the midfielders. We can only attack down one side of the pitch. It's insane.

23 Nov 2025 14:21:18
Big clubs spend huge amounts of money for a player to come in and create records and achieve things other's can not.

Case in point being Alexander Isak, £125m for a world class striker, he was going to propel Liverpool to dizzying new heights. Well, in fairness he may well go on to score plenty, but he has already managed to equal a 119 year old record!

Seemingly he is the first person since the inimitable Percy Saul in 1906 to lose their first 4 league games, for Liverpool, where they have been a starter.

You can but congratulate such an achievement and wish him luck in continuing the run!

23 Nov 2025 16:00:50
He has had no pre season then got injured and looks well off the pace.
I think he has to try and play him into match fitness and put up with it until he is back up to 100%.
He looks like a really good player to me but I think issak is the least if their worries.


Ekitike imo has done well and looks better so far than any of goykeres sesko issak delap etc of the big club signings.

24 Nov 2025 12:49:43
Shout out to Woltemade too. Not comparable to an in-form Isak, but right here, right now, Newcastle must be laughing!

24 Nov 2025 13:45:23
Isaak is a quality player, there's no doubt about that, top scorer last season, probably in top 3 players of the season so understandable why Liverpool chased him.

The question mark over him, IMO would be his character which we only got to see during the summer transfer window and the whole handling of it by himself and his team. Now whether he was poorly advised or he threw his toys out the pram, his behaviour was not what you'd want from a top professional, he was contracted until 2028 with Newcastle so should have got his head down and worked hard preparing for a season with Newcastle but hoping for his transfer to Liverpool.

That's my only criticism of him and what would have raised a few concerns for me. What happens if he gets into form and Real Madrid coming knocking? Do you want that character around the club? Guhei was the model pro of how to behave but sadly I feel more players would act like Isaac than Guhei.

The longer Isaac's poor form goes on, the harder and more pressure on him will increase and the only way out of this is him getting his head down and working hard. Sadly for him, this would be a lot easier if Liverpool were playing well. But he is a quality player and I think he will score loads for Liverpool when he gets going, unfortunately.

24 Nov 2025 16:47:27
Guhei is the only player this summer that didn't get what he wanted or deserved. All those who put pressure on their clubs got their movement which is not as it should be.

23 Nov 2025 11:38:26
Both City and Liverpool losing, awesome. The League is weaker this year with a lot of teams beating each other, and we are stronger than last year, that combination opens up possibilities.

Tomorrow will be an interesting test, and a win propels us the table, I wonder if the players realise that, or if it is simply 1 game at a time.

I just want to see urgency and pace, and a sign we are up for it. Amorim has hinted that intensity has been the issue which feels like a relatively easy fix. There have been some encouraging signs, we are scoring a lot more, but conceding too many, I am intrigued to see how we progress.

If we do win we will be 5th or 6th, I didn't see that a couple of months ago. Of course if we lose.

23 Nov 2025 12:26:12
It’s great for us ?

I’m sure the players and manager can sense the opportunity. I hope the board sense it too. Get the cheque book out and sort CM in January. £160M on Wharton and Anderson and we’re in a fantastic position.

It also a provides Amorim a fair platform to assess him against.

23 Nov 2025 13:03:33
Good results so far. Fingers crossed we can keep building

We have been good at home so I'm hoping another 3 points are on the way.

I think we have a decent run of fixtures, after our difficult run so far. I'm very optimistic that we will be in the mix for the top 4 come Christmas.

And as fergie would say, the season starts again on January 1st.

24 Nov 2025 11:56:49
The league is weaker? I don't think so i'd say the overtake standard of the league is stronger than before. This makes it more competitive there is fewer teams that you can count on winning 3 points against easily. Big improvement in the league depth of quality imo.

22 Nov 2025 20:40:13
Liverpool page is pure cinema ???.

23 Nov 2025 07:52:21
???.

23 Nov 2025 10:31:51
I want to meet the guy who found the magic lamp and his first wish was "Make Liverpool and United's fortunes swap", and shake his hand. Bravo sir ?.

23 Nov 2025 12:27:31
It’s nicely reassuring that we’re not alone in being traumatised by our club.

Shame Citeh have no fans, their page would be a curiosity.

23 Nov 2025 14:15:41
I’m not gloating too much.

They have the makings of a good side, it’s more a case that they’ve parts that don’t fit. Last season nothing was expected and Slot found a way to work with what he had. Basically tinkered with what Klopp left him, and won the league without anyone really pressing them.

This time round he wanted to shape his side, and I don’t see what he’s aiming for. Felt like they bought players without thinking about building upon what worked last season. Wirtz is taking a lot of flack, but the midfield two isn’t a strong enough base for a playmaker like him to shine. Frimpong Is the biggest head scratcher. Trent was a key player because his passing range allowed the front players to get in behind. Frimpong is worse defensively, and looks to get onto the end of passes, rather than delivering them. The two strikers aren’t getting service, and the new lb is struggling to make the step up.

For me, this is a lesson on sticking with what worked, and not ripping everything up just to prove it’s your team now. The fact that they didn’t buy any centre backs is damning. I would be looking to shore up the spine of the team after Christmas. Bringing in a quality cb, and going back to the midfield three of last season. Put Wirtz on the left until you have players that can give him a platform to dictate from the middle.

Can’t see Slot lasting much longer though. Think this is what ed001 has been saying too. Very difficult to get players to buy into your system when it’s clearly inferior to what helped you win last year.

22 Nov 2025 20:09:25
This year top four is wide open, win Monday and we could be 4th, and only 2 points off second c'mon united.

22 Nov 2025 22:10:45
We will win the league this year!

23 Nov 2025 06:38:25
hope we strengthen in jan. even a loan deal.

23 Nov 2025 08:46:15
If we strengthen well as I've suggested, we go all the way Ahmad.

{Ed025's Note - lay off the drugs Jimbo.. :)

23 Nov 2025 11:02:02
Or at least share them!

23 Nov 2025 11:05:09
Still a long way to go yet, but the improvements we've made are massive. I'm so glad the new owners and people running the club have bigger balls and conviction than the last lot. So much media pressure trying to get Amorim the sack just a month ago, it was being painted that we were awful and in free fall, which given the short amount of time since and our current position proves that wasn't the case.

We had the hardest start of any team in terms of fixtures and yet we've actually done pretty well.

Clearly the league is a little topsy turvy this year, no one bar Arsenal have shown genuine league winning form, with many sides in various stages of transition.
Yet that does present us with an opportunity to really push and try and kick on. Maybe even jump a season's progression. I think most would have said a top 7 finish was the realistic aim (and that shouldn't really change), but there is an opportunity to get UCL football this year rather than Europa league. Which would be a massive boost for many reasons. The money, the prestige, and it is actually an easier competition to balance playing league and European football due to the fixtures. You probably need a deeper squad to play EL football rather than UCL due to the Thursday/Sunday schedule rather than the Tuesday/Wednesday/Saturday schedule. That extra day to travel and rest is important, especially if you have a smaller squad (which we will likely have due to our rebuilding) .

We need to be careful not to overestimate ourselves, the league is a marathon not a sprint, and we have a fairly small group of players who are both suitable for our style of play and good enough to play to the level we need. Later in the season when the AFCON takes several vital players from us, and injuries and fatigue start to take hold we might see a drop off in performances and probably results as well. There is a good chance that we end up limping across the line at the end of the season.

Our squad depth might be the thing that makes us come unstuck. Casemiro is vital, our best midfielder in this system by a mile, but he is in his twilight years and is having to play more than he should, which might bite us later in the season. Bruno also looks to be feeling the effects of his insane number of minutes played over the past 5 years, and being asked to play in a more physically demanding position. The depth beyond them is poor, Mainoo doesn't look comfortable in that deeper role in this system, hopefully he can develop the stamina to get to grips with it. While Ugarte doesn't look good enough for the EPL unfortunately.

We then have Amad as the only consistently good option at wingback, and he could miss 8 weeks due to the AFCON. Mbeumo who has been our best player could also be missing for upto 8 weeks as well. The depth behind them coming into that RWB and right sided 10 are quite a drop off in quality.

At LWB, beyond Dorgu (who as a young player can be inconsistent, and has areas he still needs to develop) the options are shocking.

MdL and Yoro have been amazing at CB, while Shaw and Maguire have been solid. Yet Yoro is young and will have dips in form and there isn't a lot of quality to come in and replace him. While Martinez is still recovering from injury and there is no saying how well he will play after so many lengthy injuries, while historically both Shaw and MdL have suffered with injuries. Both really need to have their game time and rest time carefully managed, which is difficult when there aren't many good options to replace them.

Sesko's injury has highlighted the lack of depth at CF. While we don't really have another forward who has a similar skill set to Mbeumo, meaning we lose that pace to run in behind and stretch play when he isn't there. Both Mount and Cunha are great players in their own right, but neither can do the job the Mbeumo does so well for us. Likewise none of Zirkzee or Bruno, who can also play in the inside forward role, can either.

We might need to dip into the January transfer market if possible to help see us over the line this season and take advantage of our good start and the rest of the leagues general malaise. We desperately need another midfielder, someone like João Gomes would be ideal, EPL proven and exactly the type of midfielder that suits Amorim's system. While having Casemiro and Cunha in the squad that should enable him to settle quickly. The other name we've been linked with is Semenyo, and to be honest he'd be a great signing in many ways. EPL proven (and currently one of the most in form players in the league), is capable of playing right across the front three or at wingback, and he also offers that threat in behind that we lose when Mbeumo doesn't play. The only downside is that being Ghanaian he will also be at the AFCON when we would need him most. So while a great long term signing to raise the quality in the squad, he doesn't really solve the short term issue this season. Yet it still would make sense to sign him if possible as there will be much more competition for him in the summer.

Personally if we make signings in January then they should be EPL proven players, we have seen even with players who ultimately turned out as great signings (Evra and Vidic), that they can struggle when joining in January and they haven't got EPL experience.

Hopefully we can make the most of this season, but it will be challenging and many bumps in the road yet.

23 Nov 2025 18:37:03
No drugs for a long time, just pure belief that we have the makings of a great period. A couple of signings in Jan and we kick on.

Others are faltering, or at least will. Others have started poorly and have even more ground to make up. Others have distractions coming up that will effect their league form.

23 Nov 2025 20:05:06
@Shappy I believe that Ghana didn't qualify for afcon this year.

23 Nov 2025 22:21:42
Cheeky bids for Munoz or Livramento to fix the RWB, Gutierrez for LWB. Amass won't cut it for me, not seen enough of others like Leon, Overy etc.
One Central mid, and maybe even a double raid on palace for Guehi.

Title winning.
Arsenal will slip, they have Arteta at the helm still.

20 Nov 2025 19:51:58
Just seen that a passionate lifelong Red's supporter and member of the Stone Roses, whose music is well known at O. T, 'Mani' Mountfield has passed away at the much to young age of 63.

I was reading that in order to get to Barcelona in 1999 for the Champions League Final, he sold his prized scooter! In an interview with our magazine years later, he stated that 'It was infinitely worth it'
That's what you call a supporter.

R. I. P. Mani, think I'll have a listen to Stone Roses album.

{Ed007's Note - Mani will always be a legend to lads of a certain vintage ??
Have a read at THIS from an interview he done for The Celtic View in July this year.

20 Nov 2025 21:10:37
Breaking into heaven.

21 Nov 2025 05:36:26
Really sad to hear this, couple of years after his wife passed and he leaves behind twin boys. RIP Mani.

20 Nov 2025 22:35:13
Thanks' for that Ed007, you're quite right about being a legend to a certain vintage. Not saying it quite so nicely it means old farts! Sadly true though.

There has been a connection between Utd and Celtic for a long time now. Think it really came to the fore many years ago during the time of Sir Matt Busby. While Celtic have always been known as the club of the Roman Catholics, Sir Matt, who was a very religious man, of that faith, sought to bring a closeness between 2 great institutions, based upon those religious beliefs.

I remember that testimonial games for player's of both club's, a much, much bigger thing back then, would often involve both club's. To this day I remember going to watch the testimonial for Sir Bobby Charlton at O. T. against Celtic in 1972. Thousands and thousands of Celtic fans came down for a midweek evening match, I couldn't believe how many were there just for a testimonial. The entirety of the Scoreboard End was crammed and just a complete sea of green and the noise they created was astonishing. I cannot think of any game since with more away fans than were there that night. It truly was a remarkable event.

{Ed007's Note - Charlton's testimonial was a bit before my time but I was down for Bryan Robson's in 1990 (35 years ago yesterday btw), Hughes' in 94 and was a VIP guest at Roy (Peace be upon Him) Keane's in 2006.}

21 Nov 2025 12:18:25
Was at Lou Macari’s and Robbo’s
Biggest away following I’ve seen at Old Trafford.

21 Nov 2025 17:21:04
Would just point out, I was pretty young watching that testimonial game!

22 Nov 2025 00:28:24
Gon IWOTB you were 43 when that was on?.

22 Nov 2025 13:51:27
Had just turned 44 actually Ken, but was allowed to stay up late, even though it was a school night!

22 Nov 2025 20:41:25
Saw him in sam platts once, f#$king mental top lad ❤️.