07 Jul 2026 21:01:27
There are thousands of players worldwide playing to a high level. Who had heard of Ole or Shmeichel or Ronny Johnson before we signed them? More recently, players like Caicedo or Kroupi or Rayan come to my mind pretty easily as similarly unknowns, but quick to show they belong in our top league.
So I want the scouting staff to dig up these diamonds in the rough and watch them being polished at Utd.
07 Jul 2026 22:11:01
None of those players are diamonds in the rough. The scouting department would have known about them. In Caicedo's case, United had the chance to buy him.
Kroupi and Rayan were key figures in the French and Brazil youth setup. Scouting has changed dramatically over the last 30 years, and it's extremely rare for any top club to be unaware of potentially top-class young players.
The issue at United is that players like the three you mention are looking for consistent first-team football. Clubs like Bournemouth, Brighton, and Dortmund can sign players like this with the promise that they will play. Then, if they reach their potential, they're likely to be sold to a bigger club.
United haven't got a very good track record of signing players like that, because the expectations are higher and game time is more limited. This is why players like Bellingham decided against coming here. They'd rather be in the right environment to develop than risk their careers being a bit-part player at United.
Yoro is a prime example. A highly rated young player who has struggled with the pressure here, hasn't played well, and his career has stalled. That's the risk with promising young players. There are sure bets, and Bournemouth is a more forgiving environment than United.
07 Jul 2026 23:11:14
Danny, I would argue that Caicedo improved hugely once he had played here for two years. Kroupi and Rayan may have been known by scouts, but are nowhere near the finished article yet.
I hear your point about the pressure and pathway for younger players, but I think if Sir Alex had been in charge, Bellingham might very well have signed for us.
Yoro, too, seems to me to be suffering because of the poor team management under Amorim. He was asked to play without a proper defensive midfielder in front of him, and he was never given one strong, mature partner at centre back to build a strong relationship with. Again, bad coaching and management.
08 Jul 2026 08:15:27
I agree with both Salford and Danny. United is a goldfish bowl, and players may struggle to develop here, but over the years we have found a few. There must be a way of balancing big name signings with bringing in high potential.
Interestingly, Heaven fits that category and he looks ready for a sustained run, but I worry that we will revert to Maguire and de Ligt ahead of him.
I think Heaven should be a regular starter, but not sure Carrick has the balls to make that call.
08 Jul 2026 08:25:03
The problem Utd had was that players like Caicedo etc weren't big players who would help to bring in more revenue. The Woodward era was all about getting more from sponsorship deals. An unknown player didn't fit their profile.
08 Jul 2026 11:46:42
AJH,
Agreed.
I also wonder at what point will people start to question Carrick on how he treated Heaven last season, and if it starts again, there have to be serious questions next season.
08 Jul 2026 12:03:49
Red Man: Why would we question Carrick's treatment of Heaven when it worked for the club? Heaven is young. He is getting more opportunity than he would have had if he had stayed at Arsenal. He'll get even more next year with the extra games. Maguire only has one year left, probably.
Yoro looks a little lightweight. Who knows how many games de Ligt will play. Martinez has a rocky injury history, and maybe an excellent distributor of the ball, but is not a great CB for the EPL. Heaven will be just fine, or he'll be sold for a very handsome profit.
08 Jul 2026 12:22:41
We will continue to try and bring in players at varying degrees of readiness for the first team, as we have done over the past few years.
Heaven is one that, I think, will kick in next year, and will get plenty of games across the season, giving him time to develop and, hopefully, nail down a first team position.
I am not sure we can judge Carrick's future treatment of younger players based on the time he had last season. Above all, it was a succeed-now time to get into the Champions League, and in that sense he was successful. Now he has the job permanently, he can take a more structured view of these things across the whole season.
08 Jul 2026 12:31:15
Carrick's points-per-game was awesome. But we still know very little about him as a Manager. If we do sign a few players, he will have some selection dilemmas. It will be interesting to see how he deals with that. I want to know he has big balls.
08 Jul 2026 13:08:47
Ajh,
If Rashford plays for United then you will know the answer.
Newname,
I openly questioned how Carrick treated Heaven. He came in when we were in a crisis, played superbly, then got dropped. The message was, doesn't matter how well you play, the known name will come in. It's not a good message.
08 Jul 2026 13:26:00
Yoro has been a massive disappointment and seemingly gone backwards. Generational talent? He probably needed another year in a less demanding league, but other major clubs were sniffing so we pounced.
08 Jul 2026 14:38:57
I think Yoro and Heaven both look good. They are both young and will develop. Young players will have a non-linear path to success, no need to stress.
08 Jul 2026 16:17:37
That's the million dollar question, ajh.
He came in and did extremely well. I didn't advocate him at the start, thought there might be a smell of Ole off him, but there wasn't.
He earned the right to the job when there were no obvious standouts available.
But now the tough job starts, knowing when to take players in and out, and managing those egos. It's easy when it's going well, but how will he handle it when it gets tricky.
All I'll say is that he has answered every question so far, so I'm hopeful he will do well.
@redman
If the team wins, the manner has done his job and made the right decisions, it's as simple as that. How many 19yo cbs play regularly in the EPL? Or ever have done.
You say Heaven came in and did well, so should have been retained, not a better experienced man coming in.
Pity your double standards are exposed as you preach the opposite on Carrick. Who has done well, but you don't want him to retain his position.
Relax on Heaven, he is young, doing well and doesn't need to be in the team every week. The team were winning with him not in it. If the team is winning games with the players he picks, you can't question it.
19 is too young to be playing cb weekly in this league, very few have ever done it before.
Remember how wrong you were about Garnacho. Players need to mature, particularly defenders. He has not even finished growing yet. Just because the manager doesn't pick the players you want, doesn't mean it's poor handling of the players. He knows a lot more than you do.
08 Jul 2026 16:45:07
For me, this is the big issue with young players today. They all want to play regular first team football in their teens. However, a lot of them are nowhere ready.
The likes of Bournemouth can take risks on bringing young players in and putting them in the starting 11. If they work immediately, it's fantastic; if they don't, they get a bit more time to adjust without much fanfare.
At United, any new signing is put under a media microscope and labelled a failure if they don't hit the ground running. You can see why young players would be reluctant to come here.
08 Jul 2026 17:58:06
I agree, Danny. If you ask de Ligt now, whether playing every week as a teenager has helped or hindered his career. Playing cb and training too much, at too young an age, and his body is knackered.
Agents and money are the primary driving forces in young lads making poor decisions.
{Ed001's Note - the problem is usually not too much football but not the right lifestyle/diet or fitness regime. That is more of a hindrance than playing too often, usually.}
08 Jul 2026 18:26:15
Same with Michael Owen, and Rooney to an extent, Ken. I think there are plenty of former and current players that probably wish they hadn't played as much before they were physically ready to.
But, as you said, money, agents and fame are all pushing young lads today.
08 Jul 2026 18:35:12
TW,
The point you were trying to make was not a real comparison. I know you want to tempt me into commenting on Carrick, but let's keep it simple.
I didn't say Heaven should play weekly. Huge difference between a player playing very well in a game, and should retain his place for the next game on the basis of performance, versus name and reputation coming straight back in, which is a terrible message.
The Carrick argument was doing well in a short-term, temporary role and being gifted the biggest job in world football permanently, not a temporary extension.
I think you can see that is very different.
Yes, I also said that about Garnacho, brilliant as a youth, and said young players get to that age and can take off or fall back. He got a chance and didn't take it. He fell back; still, we got £40m for him. Heaven got his chance and took it but was held back. If he plays and does well, he should keep his place. If we don't do that, it brings bad blood. You played, you know how it feels.
08 Jul 2026 21:49:16
Not to do with playing too much, it's more about being professional, lifestyle/training/recuperation/mindset/diet..... but of course all the trappings of money, fame & fortune, girls put paid to a lot of that..... that's the problem, not playing too much.