01 Mar 2022 20:26:06
Could we have a new poll for potential new manager?

Pochettino, Ten Hag or Southgate

Cheers.

{Ed033's Note -


Man Utd new Manager poll

1.) 01 Mar 2022
01 Mar 2022 21:05:59
If United hired Southgate, I think I'd actually cry for a month in despair. that thought is just not even worth thinking about. I'd like ten hag but I think poch is the one United will hire.

2.) 01 Mar 2022
01 Mar 2022 22:09:43
I will stop watching united if we sign Southgate.
I don't want us to make Maguire untouchable first choice and sign players like Eric dier.

3.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 00:08:44
Southgate…? I’d rather big Sam lol.

4.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 00:09:37
I’d rather poo in my hands and clap than have Southgate in charge.

Would like ETH but can’t help but feel Poch is already signed and sealed.

5.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 02:07:23
I’d be interested to know what the people voting Ten Hag actually know about him and his style of play. Ed002 thinks it would be a bad choice, I’m surprised so many know enough about him to have him first in this list.

6.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 06:59:56
GDS

You have to remember some could not see the issues with the last manager. There are some who voted for Southgate, the choice that would see me retire from watching the games.

I still say Simeone should be considered.

7.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 08:12:56
Poch is the preferred choice of the club. I'd be pleased with his appointment.
As gds2 says ed002 says if TH comes it will be a mistake. He said same about ole he said same about Jose.
EtH is not right fit for united according to him and I agree.
Your right gds2 but that can be said for some of the signing suggestions made on here.

8.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 09:40:06
I guess the appeal for Ten Hag is that he appears to be a manager who likes to get on the grass and coach and improve players, something fans have been crying out for when we discuss the improvements of Rashford, Shaw, Wan-Bissaka for example. He also has shown he can work with players he has to his disposal. Ajax move players on and he continues to be successful without spending fortunes in the transfer market. Ajax also play a good style of football. There has also been reports that Rangnick prefers Ten Hag so if this is the case, potentially it is someone he sees he can work with and that has to be a plus for United and the fans.

But there are obvious risks with Ten Hag. He hasn't dealt with big egos that he would have at United, he has a club with a fantastic structure to allow him to do what he does best, he hasn't been at a club with the pressures that come from managing Manchester United.

I said a while ago about Solskjaer and right managers at the right time. Solskjaer was the right manager at the right time after Mourinho to bring back so excitment to the club and for the fans and it worked, but he was kept in to long.

I think Ten Hag is the right manager for United, but this is the wrong time if the current structure remains. Ideal world, Paul Mitchell comes in to work with Rangnick and Poch comes in for 2/ 3 years and then Ten Hag. But with the way teams chop and change managers and where current managers are in their careers, in the next 2/ 3 years Ten Hag will have offers probably from City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid, maybe even a couple of Italian clubs so there is a risk we don't get him.

The structure of the club is so important now and what we do upstairs, if Rangnick goes into the role he is supposedly going to and Paul Mitchell comes in (no idea if there is any legs in this or just people adding 1 and 1 together to get 3) then I think Ten Hag is worth the gamble and would be my choice. If the structure is not set up to allow him to do what he does best, someone like Poch who has worked in clubs which I think we may all agree are difficult clubs to work in and bring there own pressures would be the right manager at the right time for us.

9.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 10:05:21
I think you are right Ken, if Poch is the number 1 target then they have to get him. Time to act like a proper football club, let ralf set up the structure and get the main guy you want in on a 5 year deal and give him the time, resources and have the balls to stick with him if not going well.

Red Man- I like Simeone too, however I think he will stay at Atleti for as long as they want him, and he may not be as successful outside that environment. He is a God to them. Also, the highest paid manager in the world, on astronomical money. Personally, I don't enjoy his style of football but I love the ethos he brings and how he can galvanise a group of players and get them to buy in.

10.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 10:39:10
Simeone would be my choice.
I think he would work wonders at the club.
No player would be able to hide if he was in charge.

11.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 10:52:08
I suspect all the votes for Southgate are by visiting rival fans, or at least I hope they are ?

For sure he's done well with England and he's a better manager now then when he was last a club manager and he got relegated with Middlesbrough. Yet he is nowhere near good enough to manage a top 6 side in the EPL.

GDS, 95% of fans are casual football supporters. They watch their own side play and probably the MotD highlights for the most part. Maybe occasionally watching other EPL games when they have the spare time. Which is fine, football is for entertainment purposes after all and people have lives to live.

I'd imagine less than 2% have watch an Ajax Eredivisie match with EtH managing them. Maybe 5-10% have watched a Ajax UCL/ Europa League game that wasn't against Manchester United.

I was fortunate enough to watch Ajax beat Feyenoord 4-0 at the Amsterdam ArenA in 2019 while we were visiting my brother in law who is based in Amsterdam. It was a very impressive performance. Donny scored that day and Daley Blind played which was a nice link to us at the time.

EtH is a top coach, his ability to improve players and educate a style of play and get the players playing as one is excellent. The intelligence and coordination of his team is top class. Players rotating position and moving around to shift the opposition about and create space.

I think there is a slight misconception with his style of play. It is a possession based, controlling style of play. Yes they press, as all teams need to in order to win back the ball. Yet their modus operandi for progressing the ball is though controlled possession and movement.

It's not Gergenpressening, it's not Klopp's "heavy metal" football. It's not allowing the opposition to have possession of the ball in certain areas to try and set pressing traps to win the ball back and counter at lightening speed before the opposition can transition into their defensive shape.

It's more akin to what Pep or Potter look to play. Possession based football played vertically. Looking to move the ball forward at every opportunity to cause disruptions in the opposition defense, try and pull them out their shape then 2 or 3 quick one touch passes and they carve you open to create a chance.

Rather than a deep possession based style of just sideways horizontal passes across the defensive line trying to tease the opposition out to create space in behind for runners or to dribble into.

It's an entertaining style of play and enjoyable to watch. You rarely feel like you will lose with that style as you have the majority of the control over the game. You have the ball, and often in advanced positions far away from your goal. Most of the goals you will concede with be quick counter attacks, you ideally need quick and mobile defenders to play this style.

That said personally I'm not sure how many of our players are suited to it. Donny would be fine as he has played this way before. Sancho I think would adapt well. Varane in defence would be well suited probably, while Shaw playing as an inverted full back might suit him as well.

Yet DDG isn't great at playing out from the back or coming off his line to sweep up in the large spaces the high line tends to create. He might struggle.
Maguire doesn't have the pace or mobility. And we don't have a RB comfortable enough on the ball to play a possession based style. AWB would really struggle.
Fred would have no place in this side, McTominay would be limited. Bruno would have to totally change his playing style.
Rashford I'm not sure, he might be able to adapt. Ronaldo might adapt as well, but he isn't a long term solution.

We would need to bring in a GK, RB, CB, CDM, CM and CAM, a wide player and a ST to have a team of players who would be comfortable to play this vertical possession based intelligent style of play.

You need three things for players to thrive in this style of play. They need to be hard working, intelligent and highly technical players.

They need to be able to read the game and move where they are needed. They need a well rounded skillset because for example sometimes the wingers rotate round with the central midfielders. Meaning those wide players need to be comfortable playing centrally, be spatially aware, able to defend and tackle, pass the ball intelligently etc, all the things you expect from a typical No.8.

I think to go down this route would mean fully buying into a massive turnover of our squad. And not 3 or 4 players a year, but 5 or 6 players a year for the next 3 years. With similar number of players heading out. It wouldn't be quick and until we had 12-14 players capable of playing that style top four cannot be guaranteed.

As for EtH himself the real concerns have to be about whether he is capable of managing a club like ours. He's excelled at a club where VdS and Overmars do the majority of the heavy lifting. Where he is left to be a head coach more than a manager. He spends 95% of his time planning first team training, training the players, preparing for games.

He spends very little time working with others to plan strategy, to recruit players, to discuss player contracts, to plan pre-season tours, attend press events, sponsorship commitments, etc. All things he'd suddenly have to do at United on top of coaching the players.

Something would have to give, either he spends less time coaching and developing the players or he works an extra 12-15 hours a week.

How would that impact his ability to coach, to cope with the pressure of managing a club like ours?

It's a massive step, and one that is probably too big given what he is used to and what will be expected.

I agree with Ed002 saying that we would need a restructure to accommodate EtH. We would need other people to take control of many of the things that currently fall to the manager. Which means we not only have a manager adapting to a new job, but several other members of staff adapting to new roles or taking on responsibilities they have no or little experience in.

That gives a lot of scope for things to go wrong. If you have a club set up and running in a manner where the manager is more of a head coach, then someone like EtH would be a great appointment depending on the squad of players he has to work with. However, if you have a set up where the manager is central to many/ all of the footballing decisions at the club then someone like EtH presents a massive risk as simply he has never demonstrated the ability to do that and succeed.

12.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 13:03:43
Much like Mourinho and Conte I appreciate the achievements of Simeone but I don't think he'd make a good United manager.

Combative and combustible it's an attitude to like but I'm not sure it's suited to teams that are expected to play good football and to dominate teams.

I believe every style of play has its place, and the best combinations are when you get a club, a fan base and a manager who all share the same vision.

Spurs have never been a successful side, however they have generally tended to play a progressive even gung-ho style of play.

They brought in a reactive highly successful manager in Mourinho and it just didn't work. They've done it again with Conte and it looks set to blow up in their faces again.

The manager has to suit what the club and the fans expect.

United fans will support a manager until they are bored. The moment we are no longer entertained we turn on the manager.

Playing the way Mourinho, Conte or Simeone plays would only be accepted if we are winning. Even then there will still be mumbles of discontentment amoungst some of the fan base.

Plus we have seen that this type of manager does not cope well when not given the support they demand. They soon fall out with people at the club if they club doesn't sell the players they don't want and buy the ones they do. Something our club has repeatedly struggled with for the past 9 years.

This idea that if we bring in a manager like Simeone he will force the decision makers at the club to do as he wishes and change the direction of the club is, in my opinion, very misguided.

In no walk of life does the employee dictate to their employer how the company is run. It doesn't work as a power dynamic.

Simeone would come in, argue with the club over who he wants sold, and not get his way. He'd also probably not get the signings he wanted as the decision makers at the club probably wouldn't consider them the right fit for our brand. The players would not enjoy his approach and would whisper behind his back. Talk to the press about discontentment etc. The fans unless winning immediately would soon get bored of the football. Then it would all end with Simeone getting angrier and more frustrated until he blew up and it becomes another sticky mess.

13.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 13:14:46
Maybe it's more out of not wanting the other two options on that list.

14.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 15:33:14
Shappy, all those players you listed who might struggle with Ten Hag's style of football are either average or garbage so they struggle with any kind of football. That whole list should be among the dirst to be shown the door at Utd.

15.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 16:43:29
MancMan, in truth there are very few players who I think are worth sticking with out of our current bunch.

That said, we can't buy a new 25 man squad in the summer. Five maybe six players at absolute most will come in. However it could be only 3 or 4.

Therefore, at least in the short term (next season at least) we are going to have to make do with some of the player we have.

If we just focus on our midfield options we have:
Matic who struggles to play 90 minutes without severely tiring.
McTominay who is being wasted as a holding midfielder and needs to play box to box. Even then he might not be good enough at the level we want to be at.
Fred who while having a great attitude and personality lacks some of the fundamental skills such as a first touch.
Donny has struggled so far and to be honest hasn't done anything in his time on the pitch to force either Ole or Ralf to give him a run in the team. He is a talent though if we have the right manager/ set up.
Pogba is Pogba and will be gone in a few months. Thank god.
Bruno is our one top class midfielder. However, his style is not suited to a manager who want to build possession.

Matic and Pogba will likely leave in the summer. Leaving Fred, McTominay, Bruno and Donny.

Someone who plays the way EtH plays will struggle to get a tune out of three of those four players. They suit his style as much as a high defensive line suits Harry Maguire.

Intelligent movement and reading of the game, one touch technical football. That is what EtH looks to play. He doesn't really care how fast or strong you are, or how much running you will do. He doesn't look for players with good physical traits he wants technical intelligent players.

EtH would look at those options and think he has one midfielder who has the skills he needs for his side. He would need to sign at least two more just to have a starting midfield.

While he'd also need quality players in several other areas where the players we have just doesn't suit his style of play.

Whereas our current squad lines up far better with what Pochettino would look for.

His Spurs side lined up: Lloris, Walker, Alderweireld, Vertonghen, Rose, Dier, Dembele, Eriksen, Alli, Son and Kane.

At United he'd probably look to go with: DDG, Dalot, Varane, Lindelof, Shaw, McTominay, Fred, Sancho, Bruno, Rashford, Ronaldo.

With the players we have. He'd probably want to upgrade the holding midfielder, but I could see McTominay fulfilling the role Dembele used to play for Spurs. Dynamic box to box player capable of scoring.

He'd probably look to getting a better RB than Dalot.

Bruno is well suited to the second striker role that Alli used to play.

Sancho is well suited to that creative player on the right who drifts into the half spaces that Eriksen used to do.

Rashford is quick and if able to get into his peak form could play the same role Son used to on the left.

Ronaldo is a player that would be fine in the Kane role. Although long term option would be needed.

I mean for Pochettino all he'd need in the short term is a RB, CDM and a new younger ST.

He'd probably go for a young English RB, Max Aarons, Lamptey or even Livramento. Declan Rice in midfield. Then someone like Darwin Nunez or Alexander Isak up front.

He'd give players like Mengi, Garner, Hannibal, and Elanga a chance. Possibly Amad as well.

Donny would be given a run in the Dembele role along side Rice I'd imagine as well.

While players like Dalot, Bailly, Telles, and Fred could all do a job as squad players.

I'm not saying this is what I'd want necessarily, just that this squad suits Pochettino's style of play much more than EtH and could be adapted quicker and easier than it would be for EtH.

That might be something the decision makers think about before deciding who to go for.

16.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 19:51:55
Someone would be a great choice. How long has he been at Atletico now?

ETH is good if the club is set up in such a way, it's not.

It will be Poch I'd imagine but would love Someone. Get the players working hard, have them disciplined, it would make a big difference.

17.) 02 Mar 2022
02 Mar 2022 21:06:32
I can see the appeal of EtH. He's young and went in at Ajax after they sold the key components of their brilliant young side, and he's doing it all again and more with a bunch of lesser replacements including (with respect) numerous Prem rejects. All that is only possible with the complete support of everyone above him at Ajax. All we hear on here is negativity about Arnold, Fletcher et al who he'd get if he came in. It's a nice dream, and one I bought into too, but I get the feeling it would quickly turn.
In truth I don't think there is an outstanding candidate currently whetting everyone's appetite. Poch is another popular guy with fans and players alike, which just failed us miserably, and he is yet to win a thing, which casts doubts on his managerial ability. Is it luck? Can anyone point at the things he does wrong? He 'could' do great things.
I don't know a thing about Amorim but wonder (like ten Hag) whether the jump would be too much too soon. Every now and then a young coach with a great reputation comes along and bites off a bit more than he can chew. Villas-Boas for example. Nagelsmann is justifying his reputation at the top. But equally an unknown like Lage comes along and mixes it up with the big boys.
The choice is still Ralph for me, I'd like to see what he could do with a transfer window and a full season. Whether that was ever an option during talks who knows. I guess there was no point in Utd signing anyone in January with everything up in the air, including whether a new manager would want them or whether they'd just be more unwanted pieces in a broken jigsaw. His job was to steady the ship and begin the process of shipping out the dead wood.
With a top underperforming club there is always frustration, more-so at Utd than any other club in the world and for the last few seasons it's felt like just as one problem has disappeared a new one has appeared out of nowhere to replace it.
The end of the season will be dominated by the Pogba / Ronaldo will they/ won't they debates. I suspect both will leave if Utd don't qualify for CL but I love the buzz of the transfer window and the thought of this side being properly shook up for once. The expected departure of Cavani, hopefully sale of Martial, complete and utter loss of form for Rashford, possibility of Ronaldo going and the unexpected likelihood of correctly losing Greenwood permanently means our attack pretty much needs building from scratch. Can't wait for summer :D.

{Ed001's Note - on Poch what he does wrong is a complete lack of discipline, so when things go against them they just fold and get petulant.}