11 Dec 2015 12:23:32
So now the dust has settled and the pain of defeat has sunk in and we have come to terms with it we need to turn our attention on why it happened.
Its easy to look at the lack of goals troughout our Champions league campaign and think that was the issue, and to be fair we do seem to lack the players with that cutting edge in the final third.
But how much of our attackers ineffective displays are down to a lack of quality and how much is down to how the team is set up.
We've heard several times about the need of a striker who can make his own chances. Well what yhe hell is the point of the other 9 outfield players if the strikers going to do it all by himself?
Our forwards are isolated and totally lacking in any support, and that has severly blunted our attack. So the message is get more players forward, play with one defensive midfielder rather than two, get the full backs to move further forward. That is the solution.
The problem in doing this is it leaves us exposed and our defenders aren't good enough to deal with that kind of exposure. We first saw this approach not long after LvG took over. The fans were unhappy with his 351 formation which seemed too defensive. So even though he kept the formation he told the team to attack more and commit more players forward. This was the 5-3 loss to Leicester, and still remains the biggest blot on LvG's Man Utd career in terms of indivdual results go. He saw what happens to our team when we play that open. He decided to go a more defensive path from then on. Until he had his back against the wall and had to get a result against Wolfsburg, and he played a more attacking style and the team was again exposed and we lost 3-2.
Both times we played that way we scored 3 goals so clearly the players we have can find the net if they are supported properly. Unfortunatly we don't have the defenders to cover this kind of play.
Nothing I am stating here is new news to anyone who has followed the team over the last few years.
The problem is where can we find the kind of world class defenders we need. The centre back position has gone over a massive change over the last 7-8 years. Centre backs are now expected to not only be your last line of defence, but also your primary playmakers. The problem is that while thos change has been a relativly quick change the coaching and education of young footballers hasn't been able to move as swiftly.
A centre back now is expected to not only be tall, strong quick with a great understanding and reading of the game but they have to be great technical players with the ability to play out from the back. We have seen how this change has effected some teams with them actually playing a recognised midfielder as a CB, Mascherano, Blind and even Carrick have been played as a CB in the last few years.
The problem is that there is a real lack of centre backs at their peak actually fit all the critera. Sergio Ramos is imo probably one of the few who does excel in all areas required.
Hummels is held up as a world class CB, and I disagree. He is a world class footballer but not a world class CB imo. That might sound funny but he struggle with some of the most basic actions of being a CB, his positioning for example is woeful, and he tries to be too clever at times amd plays loose balls that get turned over in very dangerous positions. He also has limited mobility, I've seen petrol tankers with a smaller turning circle. Add these things to his lackbof pace and he can be exposed defensively very easily. But his ability in the air is world class and there probably isn't a better CB when it comes to passing the ball out from the back.
The problem is that most of the players between the ages of 23-30 haven't been able to adopt to the new demands. There are few CB's of that age who have been given the training they needed as young players to be able to play that way.
So in my opinion our best bet is to look at the next generation of players and sign players who can play the role we need but lack the experience. They will make mistakes, but they will be able to play the role we need for 90 minutes.
For me the players we should be looking at are Laporte, Stones, Marquinhos, Rugani, Romagnoli, Kongolo or van Beek. Maybe look at Mustafi or Inigo Martinez if you want someone with a little more experience.
Until we get defenders who can adapt and play the role we need then attacking football will always mean leaving the result of the match on a coin toss.
11 Dec 2015 12:50:05
williams or reid would both be a good buy . there is always a lot of snobbery when it comes to players on the site .
defenders need to be able to defend never mind anything else.
11 Dec 2015 13:08:19
Stones or Marquinhos for me mate. Both have fantastic attributes and have been exposed to some good football. I generally don't like to watch the transition between Serie A and the EPL and Kongolo is too raw right now.
Smalling and Stones would be a great partnership I think and add Shaw to that we have 3 of the England back 4 which is good for the national team.
11 Dec 2015 13:27:11
Fresh. Very good post Fresh. In my opinion, we are doing the right thing by giving youth a chance. But the positions we truly need to improve on, ie, CB, CF and right wing, have to be plugged immediately with top top players. We can't carry on buying mediocre players, we need to buy top players in these positions. My choices will be Stones, Robben and Lukaku or Vardy.
Of course I would love lewindawski Ronaldo bale Neymar but these are not going to happen. But I think Robben will be sensational in our team, and Lukaku or vardy will give us the pace and aggression we're missing. As for Stones, he is simply the best young defender out there. He is mature beyond his years and will be worth a fortune if don't get him now. If we can buy these in January, then we genuinely have a chance of the league.
11 Dec 2015 13:58:50
I agree Jred, both would be good additions if you can get them for the right price. Neither are long term options but both would bring exerience along side a more talent younger player.
My concern is I think we need two CB's.
We currently have Smalling, Jones and Rojo as first team CB's with McNair as a young up and coming player. Blind isn't a CB, and can only fill in there.
Jones is made of glass and bloody brittle glass at that. He will never become the player we hoped he would, nor will he ever be fit enough to have as a good stand in.
Rojo is a good sqaud playet but not a first choice CB, and also seems prone to picking up a few injuries.
Smalling is our best defender but his positioning is poor and when he hasn't got plenty of shielding from midfield can be exposed very easily. He too is also prone to picking up injuries.
Se we only have three first team CB's in our squad, all are injury prone and it is debatable whether any of them are truly good enough to be first choice.
Thats why I think it is vital that we sign two CB's.
For me Stones would be my first choice, he's English, knows the league amd will take the least amount of time to adapt. As for the other? I would consider Reid or Williams, but Mustafi, Laporte, Rugani or Marquinhos should also be under consideration regardless of age.
11 Dec 2015 14:12:28
shaps
stones is the stand out and proven in the epl it was not that long ago people where raving about otamendi or mangala even zouma all have struggled so far, hard league the epl.
williams would be a good buy in jan bit of a short term option but has been good for swansea knows the epl and has been excellent for wales good experiance which is something we miss at CB.
i forgot anout reid until last week to be honest but he was very good last season i think he is a better defender than smalling and at 27 a good age.
so smalling and reid for me both epl proven with a good mix of age and skills.
11 Dec 2015 15:15:40
Jred, I think defenders from outside the Premier league stuggle with the intensity of our league.
They clear the ball and before they can gather their thoughts the next wave of attack is upon them. The speed at which teams break on you is much faster in the Premier league, one second you have the ball and are building an offence the next second you are under attack.
I think the defenders who do best when moving to our league, do so when coming from one of the also ran type teams from another league rather than one of the top teams.
Defenders from the contintent who normally play for the team that is on top most of the time aren't used to being attacked as quickly and as often as happens in England. Normally the defenders who play for the mid to lower end teams in continental teams find it easier to adapt as they spend much more of their time under the cosh.
11 Dec 2015 15:24:43
shaps
the best defenders are the ones who do there job, defending, week in week out they tend not to get the headlines .
easy to be a good defender in a good team.
11 Dec 2015 15:56:55
Schneiderlin was undoubtedly the leagues best box to box midfielder of the last 3 years. I can't work out what he is doing now, Herrera is, again a box to box mid but he hardly starts. I honestly believe if we sacked the manager and did not replace him we'd play better.
11 Dec 2015 17:19:47
SchMidfield, I agree with Lukaku too. But Everton will not need to sell so getting Stones and Lukaku is a very, very tall order. However, the money they would get from us for the two would really set them up. Also, Stones is looking to leave for sure and Mino Raiola is the agent of Lukaku - and he has said that he would never have got Lukaku to go to Everton. Raiola will push Lukaku to bigger and better things - hopefully us! 50 goals in 100 games is some return in this League.
11 Dec 2015 17:41:48
Return for Ryan Shawcross anyone?
11 Dec 2015 17:58:03
Imagine trying to buy Steve Brice today, people would turn their noses up but he was brilliant for us. The best English player never to be capped (this was before he started looking like Widow T****y obviously) .
11 Dec 2015 18:47:52
Oops, Bruce, obviously.
11 Dec 2015 23:23:37
AJH the fact Bruce did not get a cap for England is one of footballs greatest mysteries. This was the beginning of the times when football began moving away from the common men and into the clutches of fat cats and aristocrats. I bet if he was Steve Van der Bruce and had a silly haircut he would have got a cap.
12 Dec 2015 01:22:00
To be fair it was much harder to win caps back then.
England had a decent team quarter and semi final in successive world cups and had good Centre backs
Nowadays caps are handed out to young kids that Jane the option of other nationalities in order to fire them up
There were much less one cap wonders in those days and it didn't matter if you played for lesser clubs if you were good enough you kept your squad place.
But it'sa shame he never got the opportunity he was a great leader and brave as the proverbial lion.
12 Dec 2015 01:24:52
Steve van de Bruce - love it!
Agree with Winston Reed, he is a fantastic player who just gets on and does the business. Reed or Williams would be excellent January buys of we could get them.
I think smalling can be great, but he needs an experienced player to learn next to. Imagine if he had a 29 year old Vidic playing next to him. His positioning would improve no end I'm sure.
Centre backs should defend first, that frees up the rest of the team. I'm not bothered about having a Hollywood quarterback playing at the back for us.
12 Dec 2015 02:07:38
John Terry and Jamie Carragher are the perfect examples in the modern game of great defenders but not the greatest players. We need one of those.