09 Nov 2020 16:40:22
Hi folks, just a quick question . Do you think the world of football views Manchester United as a fallen giant in the way that we have for example viewed Ac Milan in recent years . Are we a big club in name only now or are we still regarded as one of the biggest clubs in the world? I would imagine 15 years ago If a young Mbappe was leaving Monaco we would be in with a genuine chance of getting him. We wouldn't be even considered at the minute.

1.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 16:49:47
We are not even the biggest club in Manchester now, let alone England and forget about the world.

2.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 18:12:12
We are bigger than any other club in England (although Liverpool and City are catching up very quickly) and rival Madrid and Barcelona abroad but that doesn't mean we are an attractive option for the very best players right now.

The best players nearly always go to the clubs who win trophies / have the best managers/ best players already pay the most and also are situated in cities perceived to be attractive to live in eg capital cities or which have warm climates.

When Sir Alex got Utd to the top and we had great players the fact that we paid top dollar in both transfer fees and wages helped draw players. Now we don't have the best players or manager and other clubs have the earning capacity to pay big wages and transfer fees so we struggle to attract the very best. Let's be honest who out of our first team would automatically walk into any competitors?

3.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 18:26:57
What top players did we sign from abroad when Fergie was here? That’s not really ever been the way we have done things so it’s not really an issue. You can only play 11 players so not like you can buy 7 world class forwards, we have managed to get quite a few players to sign anyway.

Shan, not sure on your view of biggest, we might not have a better team at the moment but we are certainly the biggest club in Manchester, walk around the city centre and see the shirts, there might be more city now than there were 10 years ago but the city is still red. Also saying ‘we aren’t even the biggest team in Manchester world work more as a point if the other team in Manchester also wasn’t one of the best clubs in the world.

{Ed047's Note - Nani, Anderson, Stam, RVN, Hargreaves, Heinz, Forlan, Veron etc.

No no one from Europe I can think of.

4.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 19:18:50
If you were to judge things purely from a football perspective then i think its a pretty fair shout to put us in the same bracket as fallen giant AC Milan.

But there are two things which effectively have placed a safety net on our fall from the upper echelons of the game:

1.) The success of the premier league as a whole.

I know serie a was pretty big in the 90’s but it came a bit too early for the technological revolution and as a result it doesn't have the same global appeal. The revenue generated by the league means through just broadcasting revenue alone, clubs like united are going to be successful in the transfer marker when compared with other european clubs.

2.) The commerical appeal of the club.

I know people don't like it but the club has remained a successful brand even through these past 7 years of relatively lean success.

These two factors combined mean we are insulated from our failures and will continue to be for a while yet whilst the money keeps rolling in. This means we can still afford to have one of the most expensive squads in the world even though we don't have much to show for it.

5.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 19:34:13
GDS2 i stand by my view. United are a fallen giant. Why United isn't the biggest team in Manchester stems from the fact that City has more trophies in there cabinet over the last decade than United. The best players now choose City over United. The best or the second best coach in the world is at City right now. I am not a Mancunian but i do know the work that has been done by City in an around the Etihad. They have the better academy, the better facilities, more global appeal.

All we have and keep crying out about is the history. City are creating history. The current generation will know this as their history. We keep dawdling and trying repeating the history, we will become history.

{Ed025's Note - i know your not happy with utd at the moment shan and i get that, but more global appeal than unied?...never on gods earth mate..

6.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:20:33
Anderson nani forlan heinze, top players Decent maybe .
The the first half of fergys reign we where crippled by the wage structure.
The second half did we really buy the top players from abroad?
Nope
City have more global appeal 😂😂.

7.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:42:26
Shan you are the gift that keeps on giving.

8.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:43:17
City have more global appeal? There are 2 massive clubs in England with worldwide appeal, United and Liverpool. Other clubs fans might not like it but that’s how it is. It take a more than a few years of success to create history.

9.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:43:57
I'd consider any team that has won 11 of the past 25 league titles, but none in the past 7 years a fallen giant.

Seven years ago we had won 11 of the past 18 league titles.

Then none in 7 years, with if we are honest little chance of adding another league title over the next couple of years. It's quite likely that we will go 10 years without a league title.

So if we aren't quite yet a fallen giant we are certainly on our way down.

We have a big name and a big reputation, but we don't have many if any players any of the other top sides would want for their first 11.

I would imagine if there was a cup draw most teams would rather draw us than the likes of Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern Munich, Juventus, PSG, etc.

We have slipped down to that second tier, a team that can be great on their day, but who knows when that day will be.

There is no point dressing it up, or sticking out heads in the sand, or pointing to the money we make. Football is played on the pitch, and we haven't been good enough on grass for some time.

10.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:48:15
City having more global appeal? lol
They can't even fill their own stadiums even on their biggest nights of football :)

11.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:49:41
47,

Thank you for proving my point, I assume that’s what you were trying to do?

None of them were top top players when we signed them, we have signed much higher profile players more recently than most of them. Veron was really the only top level player before we signed him and he didn’t work out. Thank you for naming players to prove what I meant. We have always signed players, but we didn’t sign Brazilian Ronaldo or Figo or Maldini etc like we aren’t going to sign Mbappe, none of the players you named were you for best player in the world before they signed for us, and many not after they did.

Some major bolloxology in that post Shan, don’t think anybody ‘cried about history’ on this post and I rarely see anybody on here doing that to be honest, united are still a bigger global brand than city like it or not.

12.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 20:55:37
Gds a post off you with out a red 47 underneath.
The 2 biggest teams in the England are Liverpool and United. One went 26 years with out winning a league title the other 30 years .

13.) 09 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 21:29:54
Red for life

It is an emotive question that seems to have degenerated into a discussion on whether City are a bigger club.

Let’s start with City and it won’t take long, No. Their name is growing, but are nowhere near United for global reach, nowhere. Worth mentioning they have impressively built an infrastructure. They relied upon a small but very strong local support which despite the usual tosh was never as big as United.

Liverpool are different, have the history, took SAF years to knock them off the top, yet, our own incompetence, politely moving aside for the Scousers by failure to plan SAF retirement and onwards, has meant we are the biggest in name only. How time changes, we have now assumed their mantle, believing we are bigger than we actually are at this time.

We are a fallen giant, like Milan. No one takes us as a serious candidate to win the league, we have a wonderful name, history, wonderful great ex players, yet we are only what we do on the pitch in football, which is nothing for several seasons. People look at us and think we are a mess, losing to Istanbul inks that in and there is no sign of going anywhere soon. Failure to accept where we are by fans and club, failing to deal with our issues, means we are just in limbo.

When you want to gauge where we are, let’s see if Sancho will choose us or Liverpool next window or next summer. Liverpool have moved ahead of us again, took over, plus have a top manager people want to play for, unlike us. We just pretend and dither around, making noises about cultural reboots, all the while City and Liverpool sweep up and act like big clubs.

14.) 10 Nov 2020
09 Nov 2020 23:26:52
Totally agree with you RedMan. Great post. Thanks everyone.

15.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 00:36:12
We are judging where we are on who Sancho signs for? Haha really?

16.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 05:45:41
Ah ok, may be i wrote it wrong. By Global Appeal i didn't mean the popularity or the fan base, i was saying about the players. The best players who have that appeal want to play for those clubs rather than United. If i was paying, who would i watch Aguero or Martial, Bruno or KdB. that's just my choice though. Even the likes of Sanchez wanted City but came for the money.

17.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 06:32:36
GDS

Sancho will by no means be a barometer but quite possibly an example. He may end up with us, who knows, perhaps we will offer more money in desperation. Simple fact is one club have won the league and European Cup in the last two years, have a great manager, look to be going from strength to strength and we are floundering under a lack of direction from the top through the uninspiring choice of manager. That usually starts a tirade but it’s reality, the only great thing and inspiring thing about the club is it’s history, with CV even the money is dwindling . Anyone who supported through the whole of the 70’s and 80’s will tell you what it’s like to watch a fallen giant and we have done it to ourselves again, it is there for all to see and we continue to dither over it even now.

18.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 08:04:43
Any one apart from the glory hunters understands that it goes in cycles and no club in England wins the league every year .

19.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 09:24:17
Jred

I supported through every one of the 26 barren years so know more than most about supporting through thick and thin, about who glory hunters are. Yet even you must realise we supporters don’t expect to win the league every year but it is now 7 years and growing and won’t be getting any closer with Ole in charge. Our club should be better run with a better manager than we have. We all crave glory but for most of us it doesn’t define our support but does drive our expectations.

20.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 09:47:26
"When you want to gauge where we are".

Sounds like a barometer to me 😁.

21.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 09:50:43
Redman
As I said it goes round in cycles, 26 years I can't even begin to imagine how much you moaned during them 26 year .
Sancho? Really, he would of signed if we put the money on the table what's your point, just another pointless moan?
Players chase the money, big teams pay the most cash . That has always been the case .
Do you think aguero signed for city due to their history, location?

During the 26 year we continued to be the biggest club in England, continued to break British transfer records?
That won't change because we haven't won the title in 7 year.
You always quote examples from the past yet seem to of missed this one 🤔

" perhaps we will offer the money in desperation " does that apply to other teams?
You moaned and moaned about us not spending cash saying we lacked ambition . But if we do spend it it makes us desperate.
Can you remember all your post about us lacking ambition? That we had a 30 million ceiling for transfer?
If we spend cash you moan, if we don't you twist it and again moan

Falling giant like Milan? Have a word, Milan are struggling on and off the pitch make no mistake they won't be in the running for a player like sancho .
They won't be smashing transfer records for the likes of van Basten like they where 30 years ago.

22.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 09:58:05
"When you want to gauge where we are, let’s see if Sancho will choose us or Liverpool next window or next summer"
What a stupid way to judge .
Especially when its followed up with , we might sign him if we are desperate enough🤦‍♂️.

So if we sign sancho what does it tell us?
Sign him you moan and use it as an example we are desperate
Don't sign him you moan and use it as an example.

23.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 17:58:20
Jred

You were not around for all those 26 years so have no idea what it means and these days there is no moaning, only objective identification of what our issues are. If you want to ignore where we are, fine, if the club do then it will be harder to move forward.

It shows how little you understand when you say we were still the biggest club in England in those 26 years, you have no perception of how big Liverpool became, it is unbelievably naive on your part.

If you want to talking about our spending, tell me what we were doing for years after the Glazers arrived? Really it was only when they started panicking after SAF left they started trying to spend, prior to that they said there was no value in the market. They had no ambition, they have consistently lacked ambition at different times, over £1bn has gone out of the club not on transfers.

You need to stop bunching everything into one point together when we are discussing many years which have changing situations, unless you are only able to deal with one situation, one point at a time.

As to Sancho, I made it clear I didn’t think it was viable in summer given the financial situation, but if the price comes down let’s see what happens.

24.) 10 Nov 2020
10 Nov 2020 20:13:10
Redmam
Actually i was around for them 26 years, your just as usually being dramatic.
As for sancho
"When you want to gauge where we are, let’s see if Sancho will choose us or Liverpool next window or next summer"
What a load of rubbish .