03 Apr 2024 07:39:10
{Ed's Note - Shappy has posted a new article entitled, Concerns about Erik ten Hag at Manchester United
1.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 08:05:51
Your opening statement is garbage. I have a Masters in Psychology. I’ve worked in sports and business in these very topics.
For starters attitude and motivation are completely different psychological constructs. Attitudes can and do change. Some daily. Ask Tory voters from 5 and 10-years ago if you’d like an example. Ask people about their diets and eating habits. Or smoking. An attitude can change immediately based on a life experience or a single well formed argument.
Motivation: it’s the role of the manager to find out what motivates each player individually. SAF was elite level at this. So was Jose in his prime. They could make players feel like they could run through walls. And of course they change. Each of us in our work and family lives experience peaks and troughs. We are motivated by internal and external rewards (and I assume you know what they are) . Finding the right reward for the right player is key. But, and this is a big but, so is knowing when and how to punish for poor work ethic. This is where ETH is floundering and stubborn.
Anyhow Dr. Shappy. By all means have an opinion. But don’t try and sound academic about it when you clearly haven’t got a clue. It weakens your entire premise and changes people’s attitudes towards you.
Did you see what I did there?
2.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 10:26:06
Brd.
I couldn't agree more.
I've been posting about traits I don't like to see in any manager and eth has many.
Without being on the team you can't be exact but there are certain traits that are quite obvious from the outside and you hear bits on the outside too.
3.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 11:33:16
What more motivation would you need than the reward of winning a game of football in front of thousands of people that worship the ground you walk on? Oh yeah, not to mention the £350k a week you're getting paid to do it. £350k a week, to turn up for 90 minutes and put effort in, or at least look like you are.
This is a group of overpaid, primadonnas who have allowed countless managers be held accountable for their performances. If this was any other line of work they would have had their P45s a long time ago.
ETH, love him or hate him has no doubt divided opinion, but I'm sick of seeing the focus be on him constantly whilst the players yet again get let off. Just look at the last 15 posts here and see how many are focused on ETH.
4.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 12:33:37
Some players simply need to go. They either don't fit the way we want to play, or they have shown they only turn it on when they need a contract. The club needs to facilitate the required outs and find some ins that can pull the team out if this mire.
Wonder how many of the squad are demotivated by seeing rashford's performances week in week out yet he still is paid the most in the squad and picked and played everytime.
How many players are frustrated by bruno playing yet another stupid pass when a simple dangerous pass was the best option.
How many are frustrated watching bruno, anthony, rashford shooting from 30 yards through traffic rather than trying to create a chance for hoylund.
Unfortunately I don't see a big clear out in the summer. So we will be the same misfit squad next year. Some manager (eth or new one) will have a lofty expectation placed on their shoulders when the squad does not match that ambition.
It is a long way back to the top.
5.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 12:57:22
Kurtis.
Nobody I've read is giving the players a pass. I think you are so steadfast in your loathing of some players that you give the manager a pass. If you think eth is blameless for our plight I'm surprised
Everybody needs motivation. The money has little to do with it in most cases.
6.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 13:38:37
Kurtis, you're right about the players but ETH keeps picking them.
7.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 13:48:04
Tumble - I think those that support EtH also accept he’s not perfect or blameless but several players have now consistently under performed for different managers and the same problems are still occurring.
I think EtH was on the right lines, he wanted to sell the likes of Maguire, Mctominay, Martial, AwB etc he has also dealt with Sancho but they all still remain at the Club. It’s hard to progress and succeed when you are forced to use players that don’t fit your system or the direction you want to take.
Whilst I don’t speak for all those that went to give EtH more time, my fear is that if another manager is appointed all these players will get yet another chance.
We know Maguire can’t play a high line, we know AWB is poor in possession, we know Mctominay is also poor is possession and can’t control the midfield. A new manager is not suddenly going to change this.
The new CEO does not start until the summer and the DoF has still not been appointed. Who is going to make the decision? EtH may ultimately lose his job, I accept he’s far from perfect but I’d like the footballing structure in place first and the experts to make the decision.
I fear appointing a new manager now may cause more harm than good. There are no obvious candidates and the thought of Southgate or Potter fill me with dread.
If we accept the rebuild may take some time why not get the experts in place first and let them review the situation and make the decisions. I think most people are only saying give him another year.
I fully accept all teams suffer from injury but we have a poor, unbalanced squad and have suffered long term injuries to key players. I’m convinced that without all the injuries we’d have finished in the top 4 again.
If the EtH outers have a replacement in mind, I’m all for listening to a reasonable and articulate argument, but without the footballing structure in place I don’t trust the Club to make the right decision.
8.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 14:22:29
Agreed DLIB, he is far from perfect, no good manager is. A very balanced post again.
We must look beyond the manager and go to the core, to the structure, the players, and the injuries to top it all off have been atrocious.
Another good manager, that will unfortunately fall on a poorly ran clubs sword. Scratch that, a terrible club.
9.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 14:40:34
Wow angel you were pro sacking ole Pro sacking Jose Pro sacking lvg.
Who was the good manager you supported moyes?
I understand he has done pretty much as well as eth since eth came to England but is moyes the guy you think should have been given more time? Is he the good manager your refer to?
You wanted the others fired so it can only be moyes.
If you think it's an awful club why bother?
Manchester United is not an terrible club its a great club.
10.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 14:46:12
Plenty of studies have been done on the motivation of money. It’s the most short lived motivator there is. And can be very clearly seen in sqids such as ours. Very highly paid, underperforming jokers.
11.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 16:37:24
Tumble - I don’t want to speak for Angelred, but maybe like me and some others he has learnt over the years that maybe the manager is not the problem.
Several players have consistently demonstrated poor or inconsistent form, a poor attitude and a lack of hunger, motivation and/ or desire. This despite the appointment of several different managers. There is nothing wrong with getting to the point when debating if sacking yet another manager whilst retaining many of the same underperforming players is the solution.
Fan opinion is often vilified, but like many others I have watched and absorbed every Utd game for the past 40 years. I watch any football that’s on the Tv. I read articles, forums, books, listen to podcasts. Whilst I don’t claim to be any kind of expert, I think many fan opinion and knowledge of the Club is often far more valid that some journalists or pundits that don’t watch Utd on a regular basis.
Reports suggest Utd now intend to keep a lot of players EtH was willing to let go last summer with the futures of Maguire, Mctominay, AWB, amongst others still undecided. The same reports also suggest that the Club have no intention of selling the likes of Bruno or even Rashford. There is talk of a new contract for Mctominay.
We’ve seen years of Rashford struggling against a low block, we’ve discussed at length his inconsistent form and seemingly poor attitude or body language. We’ve all seen Bruno continually surrender possession. We all know Maguire lacks pace and has mobility issues. Mctominay is not a dominant, ball playing midfielder. I could go on and on. A lot of these players are only suited to one brand of football. Sit deep and counter attack.
My question to Ineos or any Utd fan that’s wants to see the back of EtH, if all the same players are retained, EtH is sacked, how can we expect to progress and evolve the style of football no matter who the manager?
I think we now have enough evidence to suggest this is not a coaching issue and a lot of these players are simply not good enough or have the correct mentality for the Club to challenge for the top honours.
12.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 16:49:06
Squids? Eric itz bad enough having players with 2 bad feet ??.
13.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 17:57:05
Dlib who says all the players are being retained?
Where have you seen that? I'm confused as to why you think that's the plan?
14.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 18:02:46
Dlib it very much is a coaching issue.
I'm not sure what evidence you have that says there is no coaching issue.
After 4 years of eth coaching Anthony is doing what exactly?
Now we have rashford and garnacho doing e a try what Anthony does.
What is Bruno's role?
Why is our midfield so open? Why do we concede so many shots?
Why do we score so few goals?
If that's nothing to do with coaching I'm not sure that you know what a coaches responsibilities are.
15.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 18:41:29
Evidence Tumble, evidence. Whenever a new manager is appointed all the underperforming players have been given another chance, plus reports in the media suggesting players will be retained. Ok, if you don’t want head the lessons of the past let’s just see what happens if EtH is sacked, we’ll soon have the answer if that happens.
I don’t think you understand what coaching is? If managers could magically make players better then Pep or Klopp could win the premier league with a bunch of amateurs. They couldn’t even win the league with this bunch of Utd players.
Managers can have a massive impact on teams, I’m not diminishing their importance, they implement tactics, organise the team, provide inspiration and motivation but they don’t magically transfer average players into superstars.
Generally teams consistently improve by recruiting better players.
EtH hasn’t been able to consistently pick his best side. His most important players have been missing for most of the season. Look what happened to Liverpool when they had an injury crisis last year. If it was all down to coaching what happened to them?
My point remains several of these players have underperformed for different managers, we’ve had long term injuries to important first team players, a lot of the players are simply not good enough and that’s been proven over a number of years. Let’s move on now!
16.) 03 Apr 2024
03 Apr 2024 22:52:04
Shappy. I want to pick up on something from your toilet paper gossip column worthy literature.
You wrote the following.
Some players are driven to success because they are chasing glory and sporting immortality. They want their names to be remembered. Other see it as a way out of poverty and their only chance to build a better life. You need the former to be successful, the latter will lose determination once they get their big contract, for them football is a job, and like the vast majority of people they will do just enough and no more.
Tell that to players such as Sadio Mane.
Sure there are a few out there who fall into this category, but 'the vast majority's is a bit wide of the mark.
17.) 04 Apr 2024
04 Apr 2024 12:50:42
Jimbo, so are you suggesting that Saido Mane was only in it for the money and not for the glory?
Sure he used football as a way out of poverty, but his choices during his career suggest there was something other than pure money in his thinking.
He had other more lucrative offers when he chose to join Liverpool, but he wanted to go to a team he believed could win titles.
When he left Liverpool he had the option to go to Saudi and earn a ridiculous amount of money, but chose to join Bayern Munich instead for less money. Probably because he felt he had more time in his career and he wanted to stay at the top and try and win major titles.
To me that suggests that he has a drive to succeed and be the best he can be, to make a name for himself and play for glory.
Sure it's a bit more nuanced than the slightly more reductive glory/ money split I've suggested. But broadly speaking most players will fit predominantly into one of the two categories. They either became footballers for the glory, for their names to be held in the same company as the greatest players, to win titles and become immortal for the fans they represent. Or they want the footballers lifestyle, they want the money and the fame, maybe they want to get their family out of poverty, maybe they just want the big house, flash cars and young women.
I don't judge them, it's their life and what is important to them is their business. Just obviously as a Manchester United supporter I'd prefer the majority of the players in our squad are from the former category rather than the later.
18.) 04 Apr 2024
04 Apr 2024 13:34:55
No need to be rude Jimbo.
19.) 04 Apr 2024
04 Apr 2024 13:41:34
DLIB, I don't anyone expects ETH to turn average players into superstars but like you say we should at least to expect to see some evidence of tactics, organisation and motivation, plus maybe some improvement of some players.
As it is we see none of these things. The team is a disorganised mess with no obvious way of playing. Certain players are totally unmotivated and only a couple of players show any sign of improvement.
On top of all that ETH continually picks players who are obvious liabilities.
I'm not expecting mircles but I see zero signs of anything you would expect from a half decent coach.
20.) 04 Apr 2024
04 Apr 2024 13:52:00
Dilb that's exactly what good managers do. Turn players into great posters.
21.) 04 Apr 2024
04 Apr 2024 19:34:43
No shappy, you've stated one or the other. I'm saying Mane falls into both categories.
I used to think your ridiculously long posts were worthy of my time, however they are now becoming more nonsensical as the days run on.