19 Oct 2023 12:23:40
Interesting times ahead of us. Already talk of SJR having fan forums and splashing cash on players. Personally don't think either will happen and seems the fans don't really understand reality or they do but prefer to ignore it.

For one, we have FFP issues and imo none of the top clubs will sell any key players given most are have priorities domestic and european ambitions.

Secondly why would SJR have fan forums if he is a minority investor at the beginning. If there is some fan engagement i would assume the people who are speaking for the club today will continue to do so until we see major personel changes.

1.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 12:40:38
The fans need to know what's going on. With the Qataris they said XYZ would happen if they became owners. With Ratcliffe, there's snippets coming out every so often about what the plans are. The more the fans speculate the more they'll be disappointed. But the fans need to be addressed, even more importantly if he takes over the football operations side.

His bids for the club left a lot of ambiguity around how the deal would be structured, what would happen to the debt etc, leading to many fans including myself having major doubts about his intentions.

I think his bid has probably changed drastically from its inception and he's doing whatever he can to get his foot in the door.

Plenty of questions need answering and his intentions need clearing up, the main question being does he have a deal in place to take full control of the club in the near future.

2.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 12:50:53
I don't want any false platitudes, or PR spin. I'm not interested in SJR trying to make a positive first impression. I understand the need for it, especially with a toxic and divided fanbase.

However, I'm more interested in his big plan, how will he gain full control? (I'm certain that he will, just when and how), how does he intend to turn around the club's fortunes on the pitch? How will he handle the finances to reduce/ remove the debt and invest in club facilities?

It'll likely be a long time until we know the answer to most of those questions, years at least for some.

For now, we know little to nothing, and only a fool makes an opinion with little to no information to base it on. I've seen far too many people basing their opinions on emotions and not facts in the last few days.

Just let it breathe, sit back and observe what's happening and wait until you know all the facts before you draw an opinion.

3.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 12:55:08
Mumbles, the Qatari' were just throwing pie in the sky. Lots of talk but no action or even proof that they could deliver what they were promising. Just political PR spin designed to seduce fans and apply pressure to sell to them.

Details are still being thrashed out, and the reality of what can be achieved is still unknown. I respect SJR for not coming out and making promises that he might not be able to keep. It shows he has some morals or at the very least common sense. He's doing things the right way, which is reassuring.

4.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 13:18:52
Shappy

Perhaps I am wrong but did Ed002 not say Ratcliffe would not look for full control?

Ratcliffe is not doing things the “right way” as you put it, anything that keeps the leeches and allows them control is not the right way. People can jump up and down all they like but if dividends still get paid after the owners pick up £1.3Bn you should feel utterly sick.

Perhaps Ratcliffe can outline how it’s all being funded, why are Ineos involved, is he using his personal fortune or is more money being borrowed by Ineos to fund an investment on a company where there is already debt of 1Bn, if borrowing what covenants are there in relation to the borrowing, how is it secured and what aspect of that affects United? If Ineos are the purchaser and they do get over 50% shareholding eventually will we become a subsidiary of Ineos? What happens to the ownership if Ineos are involved and Ratcliffe has to leave Ineos or dies? Are Ineos in control or is Ratcliffe? Is Ratcliffe only in control via Ineos?

Let’s start there.

5.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 13:43:35
According to a couple of people who I follow on this deal. The Qatari bid was a lot of pr and not what is being reported and they did not change their bid since June and were adamant to stick to the number. I spoke to people a few weeks ago who are in sjr's camp and posted the same thing.

According to them, Their bid was really 4.2 bill and it was even hard to verify as to where the funds were coming from and who was really behind this bid. SJR if you go what's being reported is 5.2 bill

The rest of the Qatari stuff is pr and was not really relevant to the glazers and not sure why they even put it out there. Generally you outline your plans going forward to the fans after you buy the club and it made the whole thing a bit toxic.

I suspect we will get clarity from a disclosure point of view being a publicly listed entity if it happens and that will be brief in nature with maybe a bit light on road ahead at best.

I don't expect the details people are clamoring for to be disclosed but expect someone like Arnold to provide more in terms of changes that might take place going forward. finally expect tons of speculation as usual post deal.

Changing the way united is ran is not a 3 month project and not about the Jan Window, Managing the fan expectations of succeeding on the pitch, whilst going through the changes will be a difficult task for anyone and hard to deliver on.

I get the sense that people will be okay to wait for the changes as long as we spend 300/ 400 more on new players and they are distracted but that's really just following up on how we do things ATM and no real change.

6.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 13:54:43
The deal for the 25% still hasn't gone through.
Maybe he's waiting for it to be rubber stamped before addressing the fans and letting them know what his plans are.

7.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 14:12:25
Not much point as lowly supporters us keep going on about something we have zero control over unfortunately!

What worries me more is how good most of our internationals played whilst with there countries this past week, that tells me all I need to know about the shambles way of playing and Tactics being used by ETH

Clearly big big problems at united and not only at board level….

8.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 16:51:24
I agree Shappy, buying the club should have been the easy part for Qatar, if that part fell down then the billions promised to upgrade the club might not have came as easy.

I agree with you Red Man and I can feel your frustration around the whole debacle, but this way might have been the only way the Glazers can be ousted. They're divided themselves about a sale and from reports Joel and Avram think the value of the club will continue to rise and are reluctant to sell.

If Jim can get the football side of the house in order, then the rest should follow. I can't see him spending £1.3 billion to just play as Director of Football. He must see a way to reduce the debt leveraged against the club that will make us able to continue to improve the team.

We've endured this long under this regime. What's another few months until we find out where the club is heading.

9.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 18:24:13
I hope he doesn't intend to watch games in person, is his heart going to hold out until the end of the season let alone until he gains full control!

10.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 19:20:05
If we think the Glazers will be going anytime soon then we’re kidding ourselves.

11.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 20:20:54
No deal done yet as Simmo says.
There will be reasons that no public statement has been made.
We have no entitlement to know a lot of what are private details.
In time we will know more about what influence and control sjr will have over certain areas of the business.

12.) 19 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 21:37:25
Red Man, you are being foolish and letting your heart rules your head.

Your posts on this topic are unfortunately becoming less a well structured argument and more of a toddler stamping his feet and throwing a tantrum because he did not get what he wants.

None of us want the Glazers in charge, bone of us want them anywhere near the club.

However, SJR looks like he's going to do something in just under a year that us fans haven't managed in over 17 years of trying. That is loosen the grip that the Glazers have on our club.

The club has been up for sale for nearly a year, many people declared an interest and two parties have attempted to push through a deal.

The reality is no one else is coming to the rescue. If anyone else was prepared to do what is required to buy the club then you'd have to assume they would have been part of the well publicised process. The fact that no one else has come calling tells us that the choices are either the deal with SJR with the potential for him to eventually become the majority owner and maybe even the outright owner down the line, or stick with the Glazers.

There's no point crying over imaginary bids, and made up fantasy owners. They don't exist.

I'm prepared to keep my powder dry and wait and see what emerges about the SJR deal, until then it's probably best to keep your toys in the pram as you actually have no idea what it is your crying over.

13.) 20 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 22:55:03
Shappy I agree on that post.

14.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 03:09:27
Shappy
Dont be so dismissive. This is a once in 20 years moment and fans are entitled to their opinions and to make their voices heard of they feel passionately about what is happening.

There is no good information and this is indeed a pivotal moment. To say that the sheik bid didn't exist is quite frankly ridiculous. As you say, a lot of misinformation. Lots of leaks now working on making SJR bid to be the only viable bid.

One major concern for everybody is that the glazers still own the club and they are still clinging on. We don't have to be happy about what they are doing. We don't have to simply silently accept that it is okay they seem to value our club, that they paid no money for, at a stupid valuation.

Even if SJR is our best solution, it could be made bad by a bad deal if the glazers have too much power. As fans we give power to SJR by voicing our discontent at the glazers staying. Or having any control.

Cannot wait until the leaches are gone and I honestly think that day we will all breath a collective sigh of relief and get back to being a world class football club.

Remember the good old days when we debated whether Rooney was a club legend ?.

15.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 06:47:47
Sadly it appears Shappy has rolled over, become an enabler, accepts whatever is given. Second best, third best, all ok, just don’t rock the boat. A Glazer enabler now, a Ratcliffe enabler. I go back to when the Edwards family owned the club Louis, to be exact and there were moans in the seventies when investment didn’t go in and decline happened. Yet we were not aware of everything then, now we are aware of the borrowing, the dividends, the decline of infrastructure.

I do not accept second best, you, Shappy wrote loads of articles criticising Jose particularly because anything less than first was unacceptable. Now you just roll over, second best or third is ok.

16.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 07:56:35
Also Shappy, do you not want answers to tougher questions, just the nice ones?

17.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 09:18:47
Great Post shappy. Perfect summation.
It's great to see the large majority are united.

18.) 20 Oct 2023
19 Oct 2023 19:39:25
Red man, I'm pretty sure at one point ed 002 said on the discussion page SJR would walk away if there was no route to majority ownership.

SJR is not an idiot and a gormless mark waiting to be taken advantage of by the glazers as most people seem to think.

Whether you like the idea of his takeover or not the one thing you shouldn't be calling him is a bad businessman.

Lets wait and see what comes out hopefully it won't be too long until we find out.

19.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 10:18:06
DBrooks

Neither The Glazers or Ratcliffe are bad businessmen but good owners is another question. Have I said Ratcliffe is a “bad businessman”? I don’t recall that at all. Clearly he is a good one, worth more than any of us combined. But is he the best route for the club? I won’t blindly accept things like this without question and nor should we. We should have absolute clarity of ownership, yet this will go on for a long time I suspect. All the while leeches wanting dividends no doubt.

I asked what I think are important questions of Ratcliffe’s bid for 25% which seems to have triggered some. The Ineos and borrowing situation should be clear. It’s our clubs future at stake.

20.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 11:02:07
Dodgy, Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but that opinion is worth absolutely nothing unless its based on something tangible.

Currently any opinion on the situation is as strong as gnats p**s. We don't know anything tangible other than the deal is supposedly for 25% of the club, we don't even know what that means as to whether that includes class A or B shares and how the voting rights work. We don't know what the short, medium and long term plans are, who will be responsible for what, or any context behind what has supposedly gone on.

So exactly what is the basis of any opinion about whether this is a positive or negative step for the club?

All people have wanted for nearly 20 years is to remove the Glazers from the club, it looks like the start of that process is now under way and all people are doing is crying about it.

People have this idealised view of what they want that is totally removed from reality. This perfect owner who'll come sweeping in and remove the Glazers in one fell swoop, pay off the debt, build a state of the art stadium and training ground, invest in the local area, and give the club unlimited funds to buy the best players every year. All done with nothing in it for them other than getting to carry our club as a burden, just a financial sinkhole to swallow up their billions.

I'm not saying Jassim didn't bid, just that in my experience anything that looks too good to be true probably is.
Raine group were apparently sceptical of the bid, and where the money was coming from was supposedly never clarified. The public statements about plans and intentions and PR campaign personally filled me with concern rather than excitement as that just isn't the way serious business is done. All frills and no knickers.

There is absolutely no evidence that any successful take over by Jassim would have resulted in him fulfilling everything his side have stated publicly. That's ignoring the fact that it was fairly obviously an attempt at state ownership via the backdoor, and with that comes all the connotations of being connected to a state that commits horrific human rights violations. Personally I'm not keen on the idea of selling our clubs soul for a bucket of cash and to be the latest sports washing venture. Maybe I'm just more morally virtuous than others. Although I have seen a large number of people point out similar reservations over possible state ownership.

I was glad for us when Saudi Arabia decided not to try and buy us a couple of years ago, although had mixed feelings when they purchased Newcastle. Glad for the Geordies to have some real investment in their club after years of Mike Ashley, but again conflicted over the morality of any such connection. I have a bit of a soft spot for Newcastle having lived in the city. They really do have a special connection to their club, more so than most cities do with their club. some think that comes from being a one club city, but I now live near Leeds and can say they don't have anywhere near the same kind of love and connection to their club that the Geordies have with Newcastle.

Getting back to United, I appreciate that the Glazers still being around leaves a bad taste in the mouth, and is a real area of concern. The reality is that this might be the only way to slowly remove the leeches.

I'm not saying SJR is the saviour or that he will be a great owner. The truth is I have no idea about what the deal will look like, who will have what control/ power, whether there will be a realistic pathway to fully removing the Glazers, or on what sort of time frame that will take place, or what the long term plans are for the club in terms of structure, facilities and finance management.

Which is why I am simply reserving judgement until I know more. When I was called up for jury service we didn't deliver a verdict until AFTER we heard all the evidence. That seems sensible to me, so probably a good logic to apply to the rest of my life. Wait until I have something tangible to base an opinion on before forming it.

I also miss the Rooney debate. Great player, and due to his achievements will go down as a club legend (time tends to be kind), but it doesn't get away from that feeling of what if with him. He had so much natural talent and ability, if he just looked after himself better and was more professional could he have achieved more? He really should have been in the same conversation as Messi and Ronaldo when debating the GOAT. He had just as much talent and ability when he was 16-18 years old and was arguably performing at a higher level during those early years. He didn't really get any better after 22, whereas Messi and Ronaldo continued to go up levels. It always just makes you wonder "what if", which slightly taints his legacy for me.

21.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 11:19:26
I agree with Red Man that we will have to wait and see with Sir Jim. Not only on the details of our future but also if he can successfully lead the club to where we hope he will take us. He might be brilliant, he might not, at the moment there is a lot of conjecture and no detail.

Whoever or whatever our future I am hoping it's a raging success.

22.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 11:19:56
Red Man, you are better than that. You've been a poster on here for a long time, we both go back over a decade on here. You're also a grown man, snide shots at me rather than an attempt to argue your point is beneath you and just highlights that you're argument is not built on firm ground.

I suppose as an "enabler" I sold the Glazers a controlling stake in the club?

"Accepts what is given", I accept reality, there isn't anything I can do. I'm not happy about it, but I gain nothing from spouting off on a online forum. It just further winds me up and negatively impacts me personally. What's the point in causing negativity to myself that doesn't positively impact or change anything?

My argument with Jose not being a suitable United manager was never to do with where we finished. It was about how his personality created friction and not unity, how his style of play was not enjoyable to watch or in keeping with our clubs traditions, and his tendency to sacrifice tomorrow for today, signing older players to win something to further his own legacy and his reluctance to give youth a chance because simply developing a player for 2-4 years time didn't serve him. He simply didn't suit the United way, a bad appointment, a mismatch.

Do I want answers to the tougher questions? Of course I do, do I expect them? Not right now, but in time I expect all will become clear. I don't believe I have a right to demand answers, and I know I won't get them by spouting off on an internet forum.

I haven't said SJR is a going to be a great owner, or given him any backing what so ever. I've merely said that until I know more I'm not in a position to make a judgement on it. While also pointing out the reality that it's whatever deal emerges from SJR and the impacts that will have on the club or continue with full Glazer ownership.

I'd rather see some change than no change, although I can't say whether that change will be positive for the club until I know more. I'm prepared to give it a chance to see what comes of it before condemning it.

You've simply allowed your emotions to run riot with your head over this. I think you built up hope that you'd finally see the back of the Glazers and now that doesn't look like happening on a timescale that suits you, you are throwing your toys out the pram and stomping your feet. Drawing conclusions from nothing or imagined scenarios to justify your disappointment and frustration.

You are letting your emotions get the better of you.

23.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 11:55:17
Shappy

That’s so hypocritical, “snide”’shots at you. Have you read your own post?

You said I was being “foolish” and I was “more of a toddler stamping his feet and throwing a tantrum because he did not get what he wants. ”

So don’t get all sensitive about being called an enabler.

We jousted for a period when you were enabling Ole as well.

Again there are serious questions that you perhaps don’t understand yet this is the future of our club. A once in a generation opportunity and some are telling us to accept the situation even if it is not a full takeover. I will continue to question this.

24.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 12:55:07
Shappy, try reading this thread again. You are trying to shut down discenting voices from Redman with snide comments.

All I am saying is that we have a right to demand more openness and transparency from our club. You are disbelivlevibg what the sheik was offering, but happy to sit and wait until everything is nicely locked up behind closed doors with the SJR bid.

It is quite usual for stakeholders to expect good communication from their club. The glazers are selecting only the best option for them. We have every right to try to push for a deal that suits us.

The responsibility is for SJR team to win over the paying public. They, and the club, need to start doing that so that we can see a path to a brighter future. We have seen what happens when Abu dabi and saudi buy into a prem club. On the face of it we have just walked away from that, for what? What are we getting?

25.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 13:51:15
Dodgy you have the right to ask those questions but they are not entitled to answer some of them.
We don't have a right to know every detail. It's the owners club not ours. Emotionally it might be our club but in reality it's not.
Redman going on about this being the best opportunity for 20 years. It was a great opportunity one that was open to anybody to make a bid. If nobody makes a satisfactory bid then there is no opportunity.
We can't or should not be trying to bully or force the owners to sell though unpleasant means. Its not a dictatorship we live in where we can demand and bully law abiding people to do what we want. Anyone who doesn't like it has the freedom to walk away.

26.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 15:37:56
Tumbleweed Glazer. Silent brother and social media mouth piece.

27.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 16:02:03
this will probably not get posted

Remember Qatar won the rights to host a world cup under shady circumstances. When people asked, how is it possible to even play football in July, the promise was 9 indoor stadiums and lots of pretty pictures and renders. Due to the outrageous cost of them none ever got built.

Eventually they owned up and we and we ended up playing a world cup in November.

Redman you are being Naive to make a statement "once in 20 year opportunity" and have had your head turned like many fans. The promise of something that never was.

I do not recall you asking where is the money coming from someone who supposedly is only worth 1.5 bill. They stated all along all that it was a private purchase and not a state entity.

How do you trust someone who does not disclose who they are from the onset and no one has ever seen in this process.

But now you think you have some sort of divine right as a united supporter to information that is not relevant. Its absurd stuff and you are not an inspector general to verify things. plenty of lawyer, bankers and regulators do that.

You will be a frustrated supporter for years my friend if that's your expectation of the club or the owners.

Even from a footballing side of things if you want to take PSG as a benchmark, where is the glory in that. A club that has a 500-600 million euro wage bill and dwarfs everyone else in that league and europe in terms buying power has won nothing but their domestic league and they could not even muster that a few years ago.

Is your vision of success a united that gets bankrolled and outspends the rest by 5 to 1 and wins trophies? then the super league makes more sense to me, as that's the same thing.

If you can get past your extreme dislike for the glazers what do you think we have actually missed.

28.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 20:33:39
Ahmad

You trust Ratcliffe without knowing where the money is coming from, how it will be borrowed, why? You trust the newspapers about his wealth. That’s it. Have you seen his share certificates?

This isn’t, wasn’t, a once in 20 years opportunity, it’s a lifetime opportunity, at my age it’s once in 50 years opportunity. I recall some of my late United supporting family who would have been desperate for a rich owner, dreamed of this chance, desperate for a chance that the club could use its own money.

I will ask tough questions, questions that need to be asked and answered about the funding, about what the way forward is, about how the club will be structured. I will not just accept it’s all ok. If you and some supporters do, at this crossroads, then it’s acquiescence.

I don’t judge on buying players, I judge on the club being able to make its own decisions, deciding how it spends its own money for the benefit of the club itself, not paying dividends.

29.) 20 Oct 2023
20 Oct 2023 21:28:17
Redman

I don't need to know where SJR is getting his funding. Plenty of highly qualified people who can vet this stuff. you are just grasping at straws and its just silly now.

I agree we all want to know how this will work but will never agree on a once in a 50 year opp. I have been living out here for 30 years now and its easy to buy into the spin if you are not from around here and understand why they put it out there.

30.) 21 Oct 2023
21 Oct 2023 06:50:28
HOLY CRAP! Grow up people. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and regardless of what that is does not need abusing for it.

As said above, nobody, and I repeat, nobody knows the facts so we are all treading water until such time as any deal is ratified and a whole lot of water has gone under the bridge.

Sit back, enjoy the football as best as you can, drink wine, eat cheese and CHILL!

For what it’s worth here is my opinion. Glazers are still involved. So it will continue to be a debacle off the pitch with very little light at the end of the tunnel as far as them ever walking away. The only chance of that happening, like it or not was an alleged Qatari take over.

Predictions:

ETH gone by end of season
SJR gone in 5 years. He will not be able to oust the LEECHES so will bail out with his tail between his legs.

Do I hope I am wrong? HELL YES!

I want ETH to succeed
I want SJR to have the strength, the finances and the desire to rid the North West of the Glazers.

5,4,3,2,1………….