04 Aug 2023 08:20:22
Hi all, so used to post on here a long time ago under a different name, but forgot the password. Just wanted to weigh in on the Greenwood debate as it seems many here have appointed themselves as judge jury and executioner.

Firstly a few facts. Greenwood was not taken to trial because of “new evidence” that was brought to light. Nobody knows what that evidence was. His girlfriends phone was hacked and the audio leaked onto her Instagram.

She didn’t upload it, and she did not press any charges. The charges were brought about by the CPS and police. She did not press any charges and they did not at any point “break up and are now back together” as I’ve seen mentioned.

They were together the entire time although the police and courts issued a none communication order against him, which they both broke, as was widely reported. There was no evidence of any domestic violence, pictures were taken from her Instagram, which you can only assume were Halloween pictures with incredibly obvious fake blood dripping down her face and falsely and disingenuously attributed on social media to “domestic violence”.

If the CPS at any time thought those pictures were evidence of domestic violence he would be in court, but the charges were dropped. Her own dad publicly stated that he thought the allegations were completely false. Those are her own fathers words, but social media as always knows better of course.

Finally all anyone has ever heard is a 20 second edited clip with zero context and nobody knows what happened before or after except those two people. It could have been quite literally anything. Role play, a little bit of a forceful advance by Greenwood, I’m sure many other reasons.

The one thing I take from it is in the audio she doesn’t sound distressed at all, and just calmly says no. Anyone who was under any threat of “sexual abuse” as has been bandied around on social media, would not be acting in such a calm manner. Anyway I’m only making this post as I’m quite disgusted by the witch hunt going on.

I don’t really care too much about football anymore, but I do care about a young man’s life and character being scrutinised based on basically nothing. I don’t for one second believe he is guilty of anything, and I’m tired of the court of social media ruining peoples lives. Anyway, that’s all I wanted to say.

1.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 08:57:00
Always good to hear the other sides opinion i guess.

My non professional non judicial opinion of MG is he seems a wrongun but i don't know if that is enough legally to dispose of his services or stop him playing for the club again.

One way or another the club needs to make a decision about his future soon as i wouldn’t want it dragging on for another season start.

2.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 09:09:13
Sorry mate. That’s clutching at straws. He did it - no point in justifying. No one ever came out and said he did not. If she had told the police that it was Halloween and had other witnesses he would never be charged.

Completely agree that it’s 3 lives which need to put in the centre of this - Mason, the girl and the baby. It’s up to the club and his parents and families to do what’s best for everyone. It’s got nothing to do with Football.

3.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 10:41:39
Lets just be glad AngelRed is not working for the CPS. I seem to remember CR7 had similarities to a case of his own which money made go away and let's not forget Rhodri the poor guy.

Nobody stopped sucking Ryans leftc toe when he was playing very close to home. Is his assault case finished.

We all make mistakes nobody is perfect so give the lad a chance and wait for his story to tell when he comes back.

4.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 10:42:21
We've done this to death and need to move on but seriously? 'Role play, a little bit of a forceful advance? '

My understanding is charges were dropped because the main witness (his girlfriend) chose not to proceed. CPS won't prosecute without an actual victim.

Whatever, as I said down the page, everyone can have a second chance but the circumstances of the incident and how it is addressed remain important and relevant.

I fully get your witch hunt point, and have some. sympathy with it, but your dismissal of the whole issue is somewhat trite.

From what I am told by people allegedly in the know, he has always been full of himself and not a particularly pleasant individual, buy he isn't alone in that.

5.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 10:51:43
As with any incident but especially these type of ones we never fully get the full story/ picture and end up making our judgments based on what we are aware of.
I am in agreement with DSG that based on what came out and other stories about Greenwood I am not sure he has a great character.
Also, the length of time it has taken for the club to investigate/ come to a decision etc also leads me to think that they are not convinced by the innocence story.
Unfortunately I come from a position of seeing domestic abuse happen to my sister from her ex partner and the convincing lies that were told, controlling behaviour and how long it took for her to eventually be strong enough to walk away.
This positions me to have clarity that I do not want anyone involved in this behaviour at my club. does it mean that I may be blinded to this being a different situation. possibly!
But, with what I have read and until I am provided with information that categorically says otherwise I think they should move him on.

6.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 11:34:48
Ever thought that she was trying to stay calm so as to not provoke him?

Obviously everyone is entitled to have an opinion. However, I feel like you are looking at things from a perspective where you don't want him to be guilty. Obviously others might look at it from a perspective where they want him to be guilty.

Ultimately the case was dropped due to "insufficient evidence", which just means that the evidence doesn't meet the threshold for the CPS to take the case to court.

Unfortunately I've had experiences where I have been exposed to victims of domestic abuse. I was happy to be able to help in whatever little way I was able to, but it's incredibly distressing to witness.

Judging from everything I've heard about Greenwood I really wouldn't be surprised if he was an abusive person.

7.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 11:38:41
So why didn’t the girl come out immediately and say otherwise?

8.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 12:59:49
Footballing wise alone, there’s an awful lot a coach like ETH can do with Mason Greenwood if he stays.

We’ve been very wasteful of chances, and prior to this incident, he was the club’s most clinical finisher with the a unity to strike the ball with both feet equally well.

Footballing wise alone, his return to the squad would be exciting and a great addition to the forward options.

9.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 13:50:59
If we are going to talk about the case, this is why they dropped charges:

“In this case a combination of the withdrawal of key witnesses and new material that came to light meant there was no longer a realistic prospect of conviction".

So no, not the "insufficient evidence", but new evidence that came to light. So, perhaps not everything is as it seems? This would make me think it didn't happen as it was portreyed.

Also, withdrawal of key witnesses. This is a strange one to me. First of all, seems there were more than one witness. This would make me think it happened, but they got payed off or something. On second thought (but seems unlikely to me), maybe with the new evidence, they knew they don't have a strong accusation and withdrew.

Perhaps this topic should really be banned from the forum.

10.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 14:07:46
Where to begin with this thread. I think its fair to say that both or all sides are guilty of assumption amd or spinning things to oresent as fact.

You can prosecute without a victim, don't assume that the victim was ever onboard.

Dont assume who the witness or indeed witnesses were whi withdrew their statement or statements were either, one of the charges bought in this case (coercive and controlling behaviour) actually has CPS guidance wanting testimony from Family and or friends.

Greewood was charged with Attempt raoe, sexual assault, ABH anf coercive and controlling behaviour and these were the charges layed before the court on the remand hearing last October.

There were comments atzributed to the female when the post was taken down saying that she had been hacked. These were also taken down quickly but we ca not read anything into why because the Police woud have advised to do this and not to comment further.

There were comments attributed to herfather by way of a statement but it does not say as it says here. You cam all read it for yourself. You can also see a lot of interpretations of what he said, all of which are BS and supporting the orevailing belief of who is reading it to find a way it can support their view.

11.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 14:12:19
Absolute stupidity of the OP. Sorry. But role play. I’ve heard it a few times before, and I can’t fathom how someone can be so obnoxious to think what they witnessed was “role play”.

Do you honestly think, that a professional football player would lose out on 18+ months of their formative years, under a new manager, over a simple misunderstanding?

Do you not think, if it was role play, that the couple would’ve come out that very same day of the leak, to tell the world that it’s a huge mis-understanding?

It never ceases to amaze me the things some people will believe in order to fit a narrative, and how stupid some people make themselves look. We’ve all seen/ heard the evidence. We’ve all heard the stories that the club are considering how to integrate MG. But because he’s a very good player, some people are happy to put logic to one side and believe some made up bull crap that would’ve been quashed immediately if it were true ?‍♂️

Done to death as AJH said, but role play is the lowest IQ take I’ve heard throughout the whole saga.

12.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 14:28:47
The worry in footballibg terms is the 18 months or so out of the game at a critical time in his development will be impactful. No saying its insurmountable but it isn't going to help.

Ten Hag is very possible exactly what Greenwood needed three years ago rather than Sideshow Solksjaer.

13.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 14:42:14
This is why cases are tried in courts and we do not, based on social rumour, simply put alleged miscreants in the stocks and pelt them with rotten tomatoes or worse, whether guilty or not. We all have an opinion on this. I've stated mine. To whatever extent the allegations were true, if, after a year and half of charges, withdrawal, and internal investigation, the girlfriend, parents of girlfriend, the people at the the club (manager and team mates), and the sponsors are fine with him coming back, then I don't see why we shouldn't be too. It's time to give the lad an opportunity to show he's learned from this experience. And, IF the couple are now actually happy together, it's surely a bad idea to send him off on loan to a different country where she and the child will be socially isolated, or, staying back in the UK, separated from the father. He should get a shot at redemption and I think a disciplinarian like ETH is probably the best option to keep his feet on the ground and help turn him into a successful human being.

14.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 23:09:54
The thing is there is not one of us who can say what has happened here with complete certainty. The only two people who know what goes on in the relationship and MG and the girlfriend.

The evidence we saw if true is repulsive. We have no context and we will never see all the evidence that is out there.

I worked on these kinds of cases for a while when I began practicing and I lasted a year. I couldn’t do it. I’ve seen the impact abusers have had and not had a conviction. I’ve seen the impact on people falsely accused.

I’ve said it before, the club can’t win. However there are countless athletes who have come back from similar allegations. There are players who have played in the premier league with similar allegations and some with worse. Footballers are not people to look up too.

I will support the club in whatever decision they make, because I don’t support a specific player. I could try and say I’d not support him, and part of me thinks he’s horrid. However if he scored in front of the kop i'd celebrate, as would all of us on here. Like I say the club can’t win here, and just like these types of legal cases, no one wins either (the majority of the time. )

15.) 04 Aug 2023
04 Aug 2023 23:22:21
Regardless of the arguments either way. The lad is clearly bad news. Move him on and let someone else take the pain. We are in danger of setting a precedence here and giving young kids no example to achieve.

Now, Greenwood aside…….

As I have said this is the perfect opportunity to show these privileged kids that the club will not condone any bad press for any reason. They are paid an embarrassingly insane amount of money and if they cannot behave for 10 years and be set up for life then they don’t deserve to wear the shirt. There are kids out there that would live like hermits to play for United.

Yes yes I know, Best, Cantona, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney bla bla bla. But that’s all in the past. Like it or not it’s a changing world and the club needs to change with it.

If I had my way, any player caught for anything worse than farting in public would get to hand his shirt over. Again it wouldn’t take long for the message to get into their heads. How else are we going to stop this increasing trend of misbehaviour when it is almost condoned. I mean these clowns even got to keep their wages! How is that teaching them a lesson?

Grrrrrrrrrrr!

16.) 05 Aug 2023
05 Aug 2023 10:01:41
This is a debate with a lot of strong opinions. Mine was expressed previously, that he would be best going out on loan this season. However, the club need to make a decision. Now.
It has been an unsavoury situation, however, innocent until proven guilty underpins our system and whether we agree or not, he is not guilty of any crime. Are we really arguing that he should be prevented from going about his job? Or to treat him far worse than actual guilty criminals? Is there no understanding of him at all? He is still a young man, forever tainted by this, maybe it will humble him a bit, maybe having a child will change him, maybe he can show he has learned and help others. Yet he has committed no crime in the eyes of the law.

He has already missed months of his career and yes that was his fault, but a decision must be made now he is legally innocent. In honesty, it’s not at all savoury, I did not like it one bit, but I may shift my opinion to seeing him stay and playing, he will have a very tough time whatever he does and will need strong support, that may come best from our club. The club will need to have the women’s team on board, the club fully behind the next steps, the PR very good, but reality is we shouldn’t keep him from playing. He may not become the player he could have been, but if the club give their full support to him, he could play for us again, even this season.

17.) 09 Aug 2023
05 Aug 2023 11:24:06
great post JE.
Mumbles you keep talking if you had a daughter I appreciate that's a consideration for many

But what if you had a son in this situation?