03 Oct 2024 07:39:07
{Ed's Note - DLIB has posted a new article entitled, Can EtH halt this malaise and save his job?

1.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 11:07:31
It's becoming harder and harder for him, he's turned it around once before when the media turned on him and made a concerted effort to get him the sack last season. However, it feels like the Old Trafford crowd are starting to turn on him, if that happens then there is no way back. They might ease off for a while if results start to pick up, but they don't forget and the knives will come out the very next time the performances/ results drop.

I'm caught between feeling that he hasn't been given a real chance and that he has had enough of a chance.

On one hand he has had at best 6 months of proper support with the new owners and structure (although much of that structure has only been in place for a couple of months) . That structure itself isn't really established enough to give the manager the full support he needs.

On the other hand he has had two seasons of assessing the squad and the club, along with bringing in players to help shape that squad. He isn't coming in blind and is just 6 months in.

He also seems to sway between being too stubborn with some tactics, and too flexible with them at other times.

I do have sympathy in that the squad he inherited was a total Frankenstein squad that made it difficult to play a consistent style of play. Yet, he has had time to try and coach that into the players, as well as opportunities to reshape the squad to suit that style.

Unfortunately I think he has changed his mind too much about what he wants the team to be. He seemed to have a clear idea initially in his first season, but switched away from that after a couple of defeats, going more pragmatic and having a fairly successful season. In his second season he seemed to have a different idea about what he wanted the team to be, maybe injuries ruined that, yet instead of switching that up he seemed to be incredibly stubborn in not moving to a more pragmatic approach to deal with the injuries.
This season he appears to have shifted the approach again to something closer to what he maybe originally tried at the start of his tenure.

I'm not sure why he's chopped and changed so much, or what influenced him to do so.

Maybe the club said to him in his first season that he had to get top four to survive and that made him switch to a more pragmatic approach.

At the end of his first season then only real complaint was that we didn't seem to have a style of play that was suitable. With his second season being about having the best transitional team in the world, maybe trying to embrace those United traditions. He seemed to be very stubborn in sticking to that until late last season once INEOS came in.

The rumours are that they want a more controlled, possession based style of play as they feel that is the most successful overall. Which seems to be more what EtH is trying to do right now.

How much of what EtH does is based on what he's told he needs to try and do?

Either way it's frustrating to watch the same mistakes game after game this season. While there have been big improvements in both our defending and our chances creation, we still seem to have structural issues in the midfield, particularly in the transition. That midfield balance just isn't right and is making it difficult for us to truly control the game, which has to be a key part of the style if we want to be a more possession dominant team.

For me the insistence of playing Bruno so high and in what appears to be a role that allows him a certain amount of freedom is at the core of the issue. When he's in the right place when we lose the ball we aren't as exposed in transition, the issues are when he's the wrong side of the pitch or the ball when we lose possession and the midfield is left having to cover far more space.

Whether that is because Bruno cannot be disciplined enough to play a slightly deeper role, or in the managers insistence in playing him higher I don't know. Either way that is what fundamentally has to change if we are to be able to have more control in games. Be that altering Bruno's position/ role or dropping him altogether.

The final point for me with EtH is that he still seems to struggle somewhat with the language and comprehension. I'm not sure if he's trying to be political sometimes with his answers and not really answer the question he's been asked or whether he's misunderstood the question. I find a lot of the time you have to try and read between the lines of what he has said or use an element of interpretation to understand what he's saying.

If he's like that with the media, I do wonder if there are communication issues between him and the players he's coaching. Does his message/ ideas truly come across, and is he able to truly convince the players of them and get them to buy in.

That is a concern and something that is hard to judge unless you are in the changing room and with the players.

There are many things he has done well, two trophies in two years after a 6 year wait cannot be sniffed at. He has the quality of getting his side over the line. Something that has often been a criticism of Pochettino (the manager who was also most closely linked when EtH was hired) . He has also installed a level of discipline that was missing and has handled a lot of off the field issues very well. He has ridden the storm and shown himself to have the ability to come out the other side relatively unscathed.

All of which are traits that have been missing in most of the managers we have had since SAF retired.

Which leaves me in this odd position where I would be understanding if the club chose to change managers, but at the same time feel that with the right support around him that he could still be successful at United. As ultimately he has been successful (two cups) with little to no support.

Ultimately it's not really about what the people running the club think or feel though. Once a manager has lost the crowd at Old Trafford then it is just a case of when that manager gets the chop and not if.

In that respect EtH already faces a uphill battle, and he needs the team to start putting in performances and getting results right now to get those fans back on side before the disgruntled fee becomes the majority.

2.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 13:05:58
Not like you to argue both sides of the coin. Thank God you only have 2 hands, or you have a 3rd side of the coin to mention??.

3.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 13:57:18
Jesus. How can anybody contemplate that he’s not been given ample opportunity. £600million. 3 seasons. Final say (until this season) on tactics. I truly believe under those parameters I could have done a better job.

And don’t give me injuries. The best managers cope.

4.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 14:37:32
I did not think we would be challenging by now under Ten Hag. I did however think we might see progress towards that goal.

I don't think we have progressed, I don't see a clear direction and style of play he is working towards and it's easy to see where the next step forward will be taken in either continuing development and evolution of players or in the next purchase to take us to that place.

For me that is why he has to go because it doesn't look like he is taking us forward.

5.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 14:53:36
Emery took the villa job roughly the same time. They were a shambles, morale was low and they were near the relegation zone…. look at them now. That’s what proper coaching can do and yes they have spent money but nowhere near our level. The constant excuses for eth is baffling and what happens if we draw these 2 games do we then keep him.? Seems very reactionary and short term thinking to me. We all know the bad results are never far away. There’s no progress, no style of play and players are getting worse instead of better those are the facts.

6.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 15:15:28
Great post @Norn_84.

7.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 15:27:48
He'll point at a more positive dressing room but there has been absolutely zero progress on the pitch in three seasons. The side is painful to watch, even when they manage to win. I respect it's harder as it's Utd and the scrutiny is immense. We'd been spoilt by incredible players and an attacking style in the Fergie years and so that's what most of us still want. Some would settle for just that, others would prefer wins regardless of style. But there still needs to be some sign of progress on the pitch surely. He's improved nobody.

8.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 16:41:24
This is not to say that I'm in favor of keeping ETH, but the one thing mitigating against the dismissal narrative is the number of good chances we've been creating, but not scoring. It's extremely frustrating for the fans, the players and the manager alike. It's not a new story this season. Our conversion rate has been and remains woeful. The problem especially at the end of last year was that even when we did score we would then manage to concede late goals and give the game away. Despite the improvements in our defense and also our goalkeeper is there any evidence that we have the mentality to see games out? The "not enough time" argument is wearing very thin as is the "too many injuries". It's totally fair to point to the amount of money we've spent and expect better. The jury his still out on Yoro, de Ligt, Ugarte but I think we can safely say that Antony was a terrible acquisition demonstrating the manger's lack of appreciation for the speed, quality and intensity of the EPL, and surely there was a better, physically stronger and cheaper alternative to Mount.

Emery is doing a great job at Villa, but one big difference between us and Villa, is that they do not play under the same weight of expectation. So, the big question for our management team is can they develop a squad under a coach who can finally break through what I believe to be the psychological barriers holding the team back. There is little evidence to suggest that it will happen under ETH even if he's given more latitude than this week.

9.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 15:48:00
So finishing 3rd and winning a trophy, losing an FA cup final, winning an FA cup Final was no progress. Bought martinez and eriksen on a free and added 2 players deadline day/ week in his first season and basically went with a squad from previous year that was a shamble. Cleaned up the squad, brought some discipline back and a host of other things.

I get the idea that some people are done with him but going overboard with some of this stuff. I do appreciate the energy you guys have though to keep going on and on. Tonight might be his last game or sunday so enjoy the games, we are playing and good, bad, great always something I look forward to.

10.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 18:09:29
I admire your ability to defend what many consider the indefensible and go on and on as you say.

11.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 19:57:25
The bottom line is that Ten Haag's team is boring. I have supported United since the sixties. I find myself losing interest because they are just so dull.

12.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 21:46:32
. and the hits just keep coming.
At this rate it actually looks like he's trying to get the sack.

13.) 03 Oct 2024
03 Oct 2024 22:17:54
No shape to the team - players playing to their weaknesses- that's a coaching issue

We have the wrong players - he’s signed them

No more excuses.

14.) 04 Oct 2024
04 Oct 2024 08:34:41
Jacko of course it's a coaching issue. We don't have a good head coach that's the issue.

15.) 04 Oct 2024
04 Oct 2024 12:46:36
You’re never going to score many goals when you sign players like Hoyland and Zirkzee. Nowhere near good enough at this stage of their careers.

16.) 04 Oct 2024
04 Oct 2024 19:07:31
Wow, well there's goes the end of common sense and giving a balanced view.

Apparently now if you don't go full hog to the extreme and don't dismiss anything contrary to that extreme then you are now guilty of "arguing both sides of the coin".

Goodbye common sense and intelligence, you're no longer wanted or accepted in the modern world. Even oldies like Ken no longer considers it worthwhile looking at things from different perspectives, or trying to gain a balanced idea or view.

Shame, society had a good run I suppose ??‍♂️.

17.) 05 Oct 2024
05 Oct 2024 06:16:50
Shap, it's football, reason always goes out of the window, always has always will.

I genuinely thought EtH was the solution, good first season everything looked on track, then from the second season onwards we have regressed, the Martinez injury had a big impact and he hasn't looked the same since, plus the finishing has just been appalling.

We are now at the stage, again, where EtH looks lost and he has no imminent cup final to rescue him. I think we all know now that it is time both parties went their seperate ways.

18.) 05 Oct 2024
05 Oct 2024 18:51:29
Grim, I never thought EtH was the solution, but I thought he was part of it.

That's the thinking we need to move away from. That some manager is going to ride in like a white knight and save us.

That just isn't going to happen, it's going to take many people working together, pulling in the same direction towards a shared vision. It will take time, it will require the occasional backwards step to be able to then take a few more steps forward.

It won't be smooth and plain sailing, the path.